NAMMSATION: new B******** "vintage" TM delay clonED !

[puretube]

So you are now ignoring my long post, a post that i spent a half hour on and you waste your time on arguing semantics? Read my post Ton or maybe i should not bother to be in this thread anymore. If you do not consider yourself an ehx rep, then fine, but how do you explain this? Clearly you are associated with EHX.

 

 

 

I don`t use to respond too fast when I`m preparing dinner,

watching the European soccer championship on TV,

eating,

and reading 30 minute-posts...

 

 

anyone can read whatever he wants among/between such lines

[kismet78]

[Uma Floresta]

 

Wrong: I`m not hired (nor employed) - I`m free: I grant a licence to whom I want, or I don`t.

 

 

Okay, then I guess EHX will just have to rent someone less sensitive....

[puretube]

See this is the issue that i have with critics such as yourself. You seem to focus your attention on a place like fs.org, yet you invariably ignore the problem as a whole. And the problem is that many many many boutique maker, pedal makers, young, old, experienced, inexperienced are practicing the very thing that you criticize.

 

 

I have always criticized blatant cloners & copiers and that problem.

 

I criticize especially illegal copyright infringement to the disadvantage of me

 

 

 

...Yet you ignore them.

 

Wrong.

 

 

...I doubt you are ignorant though...

 

Right.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't see any censoring of information at "my" forbidden forum at all.

 

 

[L_Z_nut]

Do what you feel is best, Ton. It's your IP, do what, you want with it.

 

"Cause I got my own life to live through. And I ain't gonna copy you"

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

I have always criticized blatant cloners & copiers and that problem. I criticize especially illegal copyright infringement to the disadvantage of me

 

 

i don't see you criticizing anyone except for the alleged people who you claimed are stealing from you. If they post your drawn schema on a site without permission, then you have your right. That said, you don't own your circuits. Someone can take your drawing and change the schematic and it's theirs. Sorry, that's the way it is.

[puretube]

If they removed these "alleged" infringing schematics, then how is it that only you know? Second, they are doing right thing to remove them. And the reason for your bitching is? Unless you say you're the reason for fs.org removing these schema.

 

 

Obviously (but you really don`t seem to thoroughly read/have read that so called "uncensored", so called "free" forum...) such links recently have disappeared into nirvana, because they were`nt there the next day anymore

where they had been the day before...

(and having been downloaded by people reading that very thread as long as the link was available).

 

Complete threads have disappeared!

(and that`s good...)

 

Even MEMBERS have disappeared!!!

(don`t ask me how I know - but I`m not the only one who knows...)

[puretube]

right. That said, you don't own your circuits. Someone can take your drawing and change the schematic and it's theirs. Sorry, that's the way it is.

 

 

YES, I have.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

Obviously (but you really don`t seem to thoroughly read/have read that so called "uncensored", so called "free" forum...) such links recently have disappeared into nirvana, because they were`nt there the next day anymore where they had been the day before... (and having been downloaded by people reading that very thread as long as the link was available). Complete threads have disappeared! (and that`s good...) Even MEMBERS have disappeared!!! (don`t ask me how I know - but I`m not the only one who knows...)

 

 

i don't bother myself with internet bleeps, nor am i too concerned about chasing ghosts. If you say they exist, hey maybe they do. But I'm quite the doubtful personality, so don't get offended that i ask you for a link or links you are seeing now before they disappear into oblivion. Go ahead and send me a PM. I'm sure they exist though, but at the same time i think you're wasting your time fighting a lost battle. Maybe you should blame yourself for sharing them in the first place without first appreciating the anarchy that is the Internet? Somehow i think we are talking about different things. You are about your schematics that are floating around on the web. I am talking about the legality of cloning in general. If some anon reverses the tube zipper and posts his version of the circuit , it is legally his and his right to share. So let's not try to confuse the issue of patents with copyrights. They are totally different animals.

[rocket34bg]

Wrong! "Trampling my IP" is: a.): illegal posting/publishing illegal of my copyrighted material: b.): doing this repeatedly; c.): doing it against better knowledge; d.): repeating a.-c. for pestering e.): encouraging innocent kids to commit a.-d. .

 

 

you can't stop what is said on the internet

you can't stop what pictures are posted on the internet

you can't stop information

 

even if you take down fsb.org they can always make an email group or a private website

 

people are going to trample the {censored} out of your "IP" or however you want to call it, but that's just the way it is. technology. we all have to live with it as we get older. some of us are going to give up and quit because they can't handle life

 

hopefully puretube has plenty of money from inventing all these pedals so he can afford to retire and give up

[puretube]

i don't bother myself with internet bleeps, nor am i too concerned about chasing ghosts. If you say they exist, hey maybe they do. But I'm quite the doubtful personality, so don't get offended that i ask you for a link or links you are seeing now before they disappear into oblivion...

none of your interest - those authorized and/or inflicted do have their downloads...

 

 

 

Maybe you should blame yourself for sharing them

I never shared them!

 

 

 

Somehow i think we are talking about different things. You are about your schematics that are floating around on the web.

 

"They ar not "floating around"...

 

 

If some anon reverses the tube zipper and posts his version of the circuit , it is legally his and his right to share. So let's not try to confuse the issue of patents with copyrights.

 

 

No, don`t get confused.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

you can't stop what is said on the internet you can't stop what pictures are posted on the internet you can't stop information even if you take down fsb.org they can always make an email group or a private website people are going to trample the {censored} out of your "IP" or however you want to call it, but that's just the way it is. technology. we all have to live with it as we get older. some of us are going to give up and quit because they can't handle life hopefully puretube has plenty of money from inventing all these pedals so he can afford to retire and give up

 

 

Hey wait a minute. I'm not at all advocating that fs.org or anybody trample on Puretube's drawings. If they are his copyrights, he has a right to them. People should respect them and i would want fs.org to respect them. That said i see puretube IP policing things way beyond HIS copyrights. Personally i've not seen any puretube schematics on fs.org. Copyrights are different from patents. Let's not try and confuse the issue by throwing everything under the umbrella of "IP."

[puretube]

you guys better go out and discuss copyright/patent things elsewhere.
I have stated it clearly enough.
Maybe you got a language/understanding barrier.
good night.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

none of your interest - those authorized and/or inflicted do have their downloads... I never shared them! "They ar not "floating around"... No, don`t get confused.

 

 

If you didn't share them, how do they appear on the web (if they are indeed on the web, but I've yet to see any that says belong to puretube)? Did some body go to your home and steal them? If you post a schematic on the web, people can take that information to build a pedal. If they draw their own version, the new drawing becomes their copyright, not yours. The concept is clear to me. You don't own the rights to the circuits.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

you guys better go out and discuss copyright/patent things elsewhere.

 

 

seems clear to me, unless there are difference in international IP laws.

 

 

[thesockmonster]

I can't stand the thought of working so hard on a circuit, which helps me to make my livelihood (forgive me if I'm wrong there, Tom), and having someone rip my hard work onto the web for anyone to peruse. Tom, do you make any money off EHX sales on your circuits? Hopefully I'm not offending here, as this seems to be rather personal. As tempting as it is to copy someone's design to save the cash, I draw the line at modding what I've already bought used from others.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

can someone explain to me the difference between cloning a pedal and downloading music without paying? i know that cloning is looked down on by a lot of people. but downloading music is widely accepted as being ok now. what's the difference? this isn't a hypothetical, i'm really wondering what people think about this

 

 

there is a HUGE difference and the critics will try to make them one and the same. They are not even close. Apples and oranges. Monkeys and man. Goats and tigers. Snake and baffoon.

 

Music and movies are protected by copyrights. Cloning a pedal just requires that you know how to put the circuit together. This is protected by patents, but few pedals are ever protected by patents. A circuit is an idea and ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented. This means you i, you, somebody can take a fuzz and trace the parts and reverse the circuit to build a clone. This is not consider copyright infringement and is totally legit. If the circuit is patented, you cannot clone that circuit. Again if you don't have the patents, you do not own the circuits. Copyright lasts a long long time. Patents last about 10 years or so each.

 

Same thing with drugs. If generic drugs didn't exist, you'd still be paying an arm and leg for a brand name.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

 

ah, true. i know the legal issues are different but i'm also interested in what the differences are morally. why are people against cloning pedals but not downloading music? even if you don't look at the legal issues, the process of cloning a pedal seems to be pretty similar to the process of ripping a cd, encoding it, and listening to it. except ripping a cd is easier to do probably...

 

 

Cloning a pedal is totally different from ripping a CD. Ripping is 100% or near 100% copying. The pattern of the recording on the CD is undeniably the same. That would be copyright infringement.

 

Cloning a pedal can mean many things, but usually it means you put together parts in the same way but in a different pattern, the result of which sounds the same or nearly the same. There is no way to do this with music. You must copy the music. For pedals, the idea is copied, but ideas cannot be copyrighted, only patented.

 

If you were to copy a pedal, say a DMM, part for part, with the exact same layout, then that would be copyright infringement. This has occurred in the boutique world, but i cannot remember the specific example.

 

If you take a ehx DMM, study it and draw up a schematic to represent the DMM circuit and build that clone using a different layout that you made on your own, then that is not copyright infringement. The idea of how the DMM is put together would be protected by a patent (which doesn't exist) and not by a copyright.

 

As i have tried to explain many times, moral is so subjective anyway. 50 years ago, it was immoral for blacks to piss in the same bathroom as whites. It's immoral for women to show their faces in certain parts of the world. Apparently americans are too moral to allow same sex marriage. How do you judge morals based on these differences? I try to avoid this and rely on what the law says. And the law doesn't say cloning is illegal. In fact, the law says it's okay to copy once the copyrights or patents expired.

 

I'm not saying i like cloning. In fact, i hate cloning, which is why i have never put together a kit from byoc or gg or tonepad, not to say there is anything wrong with that. Kits are great for beginners, but

 

most kits are clones.

 

If kits are clones, and cloning is immoral, then many people on this forum are immoral. That logic doesn't flow.

 

many people say that if you take an idea from a pedal, that is somewhat like "stealing." First, realize that many pedalmakers that sell their pedals to you do this, so it's somewhat hypocritical since you can't practice what you preach. There is certainly some truth to that though. If you and i work at a company and i came up with an idea to present to the boss and i told you about the idea, and you go and present it to the boss behind by back, then that is back stabbing. But you know what, i should have written that idea down first or keep it to myself in the first place. If i had filed for a patent disclosure for my idea and you quit your job and started up a company based on my idea, then that's trade secret infringement.

 

If you want to learn about pedals, you have to read schematics. Learning is hampered when puretube goes around and delete schematics that floats on the web that are not to his liking. How can puretube just choose what schematics are appropriate and which are not? That is just silly.

[Uma Floresta]

can someone explain to me the difference between cloning a pedal and downloading music without paying? i know that cloning is looked down on by a lot of people. but downloading music is widely accepted as being ok now. what's the difference? this isn't a hypothetical, i'm really wondering what people think about this

 

 

Cloning a pedal is almost always 100% legal. Downloading without paying is usually illegal, unless the music is offered for free.

[Uma Floresta]

Regarding copyright, there isn't a single person on here who hasn't violated some kind of copyright law. Ever post an image here that you don't own? That's a copyright violation, equal to illegally downloading music or posting Puretube's schematics.

 

I don't happen to think that any of those things are immoral. Illegal, yes. Not really immoral, though I do prefer to pay for music because I believe in supporting good artists.

[SUPER VELCROBOY]

well i think there is a difference between violating copyright because of ignorance and violating it purposefully.

[Wilbo26]

I'm a big fan of Puretube. And I'm a big fan of cloning. Its just a fact of life. Please don't make me dig up the generic grocery products again. Last I checked Post and General Mills were doing just fine, as people really put a lot of stock in a name brand, even if they shouldn't. I hope Puretube will continue to be an innovator and not fold over and bail out just because he thinks non-customers that like to figure things out for themselves pose t threat to his or anyone else's livelihood. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tube, and he is one of the reason's EHX is usually lumped in with the likes of ZVEX and not BOSS when it comes to innovations, and if he leaves the game its just going to chalk up another victory to the cloners that apparently ruin the "industry".

 

If anything, Behringer should embolden them to be even more innovative and dothings that those photocopying Germans can't possibly hope to copy in the next few years, and keep pushing the envelope for guitar effects. Quitting is the only way they win.

[dirk-hendrik]

yikes!! A bump!

It's only FS.orgs birthday once a year. If we bump for IP day... we bump for FS's bithdaytoo! :poke:

[SpectralJulian]

I'm a big fan of Puretube. And I'm a big fan of cloning. Its just a fact of life. Please don't make me dig up the generic grocery products again. Last I checked Post and General Mills were doing just fine, as people really put a lot of stock in a name brand, even if they shouldn't. I hope Puretube will continue to be an innovator and not fold over and bail out just because he thinks non-customers that like to figure things out for themselves pose t threat to his or anyone else's livelihood. I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tube, and he is one of the reason's EHX is usually lumped in with the likes of ZVEX and not BOSS when it comes to innovations, and if he leaves the game its just going to chalk up another victory to the cloners that apparently ruin the "industry". If anything, Behringer should embolden them to be even more innovative and dothings that those photocopying Germans can't possibly hope to copy in the next few years, and keep pushing the envelope for guitar effects. Quitting is the only way they win.

QFTMFT