Members Shblay Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 another vote for anuerysm. also, lithium, rape me, heart shaped box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pontiusplaymate Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Why are they pretenses? Indeed they come naturally to me and are a normal part of the way I function as an artist myself. If I stop looking for the challenge, if I stop looking for the beautiful, challenging and new then I'm just a dead spirit consuming in the typical narcissistic fashion. I choose to interact and to be pro-active in my experience of art and culture as opposed to just being a garbage bin for the spectacle. You mistake active attention/analysis to/of the world around me for pretense which is again a misalignment of perception. I can understand how that might be because your paradigm is your paradigm ... it's just not mine.] SIGWORTHY BLOWHARD! YOU DO INNER WORK WITH KESTRAL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyGrahamCracker Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Mr. Twang I always thought that the real beauty of Nirvana was the fact that Kurt wrote some truly memorable songs. Regardless of your opinion of the guy, he should be recognized as a gifted songwriter.My favorite Nirvana songs are "Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge..." and "Lithium."When a Nirvana song comes on the radio (albeit rare these days), I don't think I've ever turned it off or changed the station. I've missed SO much of this thread (like pages 5 and 6) that I just need to comment on this one great post. THat's the thing about Kurt; he was a GREAT songwriter. You'll NEVER hear folks in Nashville or Stockholm or LA writing {censored} that valid, nor will the kids in Austin or Chicago write {censored} that's as catchy. He had it ALL. He was one of those sorts who figured it out. Or who we've figured out since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Well that's a little disingenuous, I made it very clear that the list I gave was contemporary 80's material ... back in 1979 Bauhaus were most certainly NOT pop and neither were half of the bands mentioned there. You certainly didn't hear half of those bands on the radio either. You can't cherry pick bands from then and hold them up to todays standards of music; you must contextualize them in their era. At the time they were way off the register and thats a plain fact. I didn't suggest that they were high art ( I'm not interested in high art at all actually ) but even at the time they were an expression of an Art School ethic which I liked very much and apreciated when compared to Rick Springfield. Well in the broad definition of pop music bauhaus was and is pop music from the day they started. In fact i would contend that almost anything with electric guitar or most acoustic guitars is pop music as broadly defined. They may have been totally underground, and way off the radar, but still pop music. anyways, what i was really wanting to say, and never got arround to is art comes from indiviuals... if it is turned in to a comodity its not nesissarilly the artists fault. Even bauhaus was amitious and wanted to make a living off of their comodity... i chose them because i dont have time to address every band you listed, and without refering back to the page they were the first one i remembered. Thats not my argument at all though, again you might have missed my position which is pretty clear. The reference to the cure/fag thing was these guys were saying... well its not good music... he cant play... its not metal... they couldnt accept that a guy that sounded different than what they considered good music for whatever reason... they dont play fast enough... smith is a crappy singer... whatever. Anyways, another point that i already see we agree on is that nirvana breaking in to the main stream killed the current underground scene. That is totally true... just like woodstock ended the summer of love, and the french revolution ended the enlightenment... The sex pistols and the clash basically killed punk. it is a cycle that happens over and over... it doenst mean you cant appreciate something for what it is regardless of when it was made. To be honest, i might go back and look at your list and check out some of the bands.... i actually dont like bauhaus much... at least not in terms of albums. I do like some songs, and it is still what i consider POP in the broader sense. I also think that the underground in the states is a lot broader than it is in Australia. But then again, when i lived there i was pretty young and lived in a small town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by pontiusplaymate SIGWORTHY BLOWHARD! YOU DO INNER WORK WITH KESTRAL! The intellectual midget speaks ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members seifukusha Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 i like alot of them, but i never owned a cd. cool stuff. i love how he brought sonic youths effects to the forefront... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by BillyGrahamCracker I've missed SO much of this thread (like pages 5 and 6) that I just need to comment on this one great post. THat's the thing about Kurt; he was a GREAT songwriter. You'll NEVER hear folks in Nashville or Stockholm or LA writing {censored} that valid, nor will the kids in Austin or Chicago write {censored} that's as catchy. He had it ALL. He was one of those sorts who figured it out. Or who we've figured out since. yes... kurt cobain was basically a genuine folk singer with a a sense of what a good hook was... only with lots of distortion, and a good drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 i just remembered a great quote from daniel ash... im paraphrasing though. 'i dont belive in terms like alternative, or underground. people either like music or they dont' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall I also think that the underground in the states is a lot broader than it is in Australia. But then again, when i lived there i was pretty young and lived in a small town. I grew up in the U.K and OZ Brian, my perception of the underground is not parochial ... thats something I don't quite see the point of. You would be surprised what is happening in Australia but certainly if we are making comparisons to the U.S, sure, we don't have the population base to support the largesse of the perceived underground there but then we aren't as prone to being totally swamped by the cultural entropy that the U.S is prone to either ... so it all balances out in the end. I think we understand eachother though, there are allot of semantics in much of this and many fine lines to be drawn in making our idea's felt. On a personal note my girlfriend an I are planning to move to Berlin late next year as there's a great underground art scene there and allot of support for art of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall i just remembered a great quote from daniel ash... im paraphrasing though.'i dont belive in terms like alternative, or underground. people either like music or they dont' Ahh but again you can take anything from it's context. If you look at everything Bauhaus were doing and then Tone on Tail they were certainly not ploughing the furrow in the high fields! Allot of that was a backlash against all the media labelling that was going on ... goth, alternative etc ... it was his minor rebellion against the media trying to label and appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillyGrahamCracker Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 That's the funny thing; while I'll always see Morrisey and Bauhaus and the Sill Mondays as stupid British (Imperial) pop, you'll always see Nirvana and whatnot as the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER I grew up in the U.K and OZ Brian, my perception of the underground is not parochial ... thats something I don't quite see the point of. You would be surprised what is happening in Australia but certainly if we are making comparisons to the U.S, sure, we don't have the population base to support the largesse of the perceived underground there but then we aren't as prone to being totally swamped by the cultural entropy that the U.S is prone to either ... so it all balances out in the end. I think we understand eachother though, there are allot of semantics in much of this and many fine lines to be drawn in making our idea's felt. On a personal note my girlfriend an I are planning to move to Berlin late next year as there's a great underground art scene there and allot of support for art of the people. in the end, my point is that a song is a song, and an artist is an artist. if i hear something i like, i will give it a listen... i try not judge where it came from too much. Almost all of it comes from somewhere. I mean we are still accenting on the 2 and 4 most of the time. i even have listened to some pretty damn obscure african tribal music, and the beats sound familiar. in music personalitity is just as important as creativity.i totally agree with you that nirvana was a bridge, and it killed the underground here in the states. i just dont think i can blame nirvana for it... i dont even think their record company thought they would be as big as they were. I just dont see how thier succes was any different than the clash's success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER Ahh but again you can take anything from it's context. If you look at everything Bauhaus were doing and then Tone on Tail they were certainly not ploughing the furrow in the high fields! Allot of that was a backlash against all the media labelling that was going on ... goth, alternative etc ... it was his minor rebellion against the media trying to label and appropriate. and nirvana said the same thing about the alternative and grunge label for the same reasons. kurt was probably the king of rebeling against the media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Leftside Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Swap Meet and Even in his Youth are two of my faves... oh yea, and the live version of school from the muddy banks of the whiskah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall in the end, my point is that a song is a song, and an artist is an artist. if i hear something i like, i will give it a listen... i try not judge where it came from too much. Almost all of it comes from somewhere. I mean we are still accenting on the 2 and 4 most of the time. i even have listened to some pretty damn obscure african tribal music, and the beats sound familiar. in music personalitity is just as important as creativity. Thats fine, I apreciate that. If you got back to my very early comments when I was asked what music I like I clearly stated that it's a broad church of taste and I am highly eclectic. My issue is not with Nirvana musically or as a band perse', it's not an issue with the individual members even. I said it before and I'll say it again, my problem was their meaning socially and culturally and what that spelt for the legitimate underground. I also made it clear that I thought the fans and the media were the biggest problem and not the band itself ... they were just a tool for something that was bound to happen anyway. I just dont see how thier succes was any different than the clash's success. Well the Clash were a part of a legitimate underground at the time which was pretty shortlived but whose influence lives on to this day ... it is the potency of that initial authentic putsch by Punk that is to be admired and perhaps valued as the key component that Grunge lacked. Punk was a grass roots thing but Grunge was a media thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members raggydoll Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 milk it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Bauhaus liked L&r better Killing Joke dunno Japan dunno Magazine dunno The Stranglers dunno The Fall sounds familiar Echo & the Bunnymen good band Joy Division inovators, and at the roots of a lot of music I love Gen X cant remember Tubeway Army dunno Birthday Party dunno Swans cant remember Icicle Works dunno Silver Apples dunno Pixies great band PIL dunno Kraut dunno The Clash great band The Damned huge influence on one of my favorite bands duran duran The Cramps kinda rhetro??? B52's their first album is mind blowing Nina Hagen Band dunno Air dunno Dust Brothers inovators obviously.. Siouxsie & the Banshees one of my favorites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pontiusplaymate Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by TIKIROCKER The intellectual midget speaks ... I knew you sounded familiar! http://www.nk-news.net/extras/insult_generator.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 btw im checking out killing joke on limewire listening to a song called 80's... its cool... i think ive heard it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 love like blood sounds like it may have influenced the cure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall by the way tiki.. if you havent picked it up yet, and are a siouxie fan pick up the creatures CD I was listening to Creatures in 1983 and still have their first few albums on vinyl. You see Budgie was the drummer I totally modelled myself on as a teen, I was a drummer before a guitar player. I loved the tribal polyrhyhmns in the music of Siouxsie and the Banshees who are for all intents and purposes the band I largely cut my teeth on in both the drumming and guitar playing departments .. John Mcgeoch is still my favourite guitarist ever. They had allot in common with CAN who you really should check out if you don;t know them ... classic Kraut Rock from the late 60's and 70's ... Jaki Leibzeit is an incredible drummer, hypnotic to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 {censored} these guys are cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall love like blood sounds like it may have influenced the cure Ok Brian you need to check out Killing Jokes first album, second album "Whats this for?" ... "Night Time" which Love Like Blood is from. Start with those and then work your way up. Killing Joke were hugely influential and are recognised as such ... they paved the way for the Industrial scene also. Huge influence on my own music and a band I have long cherished since the early 80's. You need to check out Birthday Party - Hee Haw. Birthday Party was Nick Caves band from Melbourne before they tranformed into the Bad Seeds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brian Marshall Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 im pretty sure that anything older than the last two releases for creatures were only available here as imports. I heard she was still making albums, but was not aware the creatures when back that far. but it is a perfect example of looking for music and finding it... and i dont think it takes a perticular type of person to like it... everyone ive played it for seems to like it except for butt rockers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TIKILOCKEDOUT Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 Originally posted by Brian Marshall im pretty sure that anything older than the last two releases for creatures were only available here as imports. I heard she was still making albums, but was not aware the creatures when back that far.but it is a perfect example of looking for music and finding it... and i dont think it takes a perticular type of person to like it... everyone ive played it for seems to like it except for butt rockers Yup they go back to 1983 Creatures ... you have to check out Nina Hagen - Nunsexmonkrock ... that will blow your mind for where it's at in 1982. Nina was and is incredible. The guitar work of Geordie from Killing Joke is without peer ... the guys in my top three are ... John Mcgeoch - Banshees/MagazineDaniel Ash - Bauhaus/Tones on TailGeordie - Killing Joke/Damage Manual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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