Kurzweil K2000 and Roland JD-800/JD-990 Best analog sounding digitals ever???

[AnalogGuy]

I am still today in that opinion both Kurzweil K -serie and Roland JD -serie are the best products ever to sound both very warm analog as well as hyper cold digital too. It's very strange that they were never intended to be VA synths at all and still they can beat many many VA synths out there... for example I can add MicroKorg and MS2000 into my VA hate-list.... they can never produce a proper sounding analog bass! The filter was incredible cold and boring.

 

Anyway, are there other similar digital synths that can sound very analogish? And do not add any ordinary digital stuff here... only very special cases that truly sound like analog synths! In fact now I remember one other too; Korg Prophecy and Z1.

[synthman1]

Yeah, these synths are up there. Both have very warm signal paths. The Kurzweils have one of the best VAs for traditional american analog sound emulation.

 

You could probubly squeak the Roland D-50 in there too for warmth.

 

The Z1 is one of Korgs best synthesizers ever. Not only is it VA great, but goes far, far beyond just standard VA due to the unique 13 specialized osc types. 1 osc does all the traditional analog waveforms alone, others model string, wind instruments and Eps, others can only be found in the Z1. Its something special.

 

Want a smooth warm oozing pad, no problem. Want a cold harsh aggressive lead, no problem. Want a modeled stand up acoustic bass, no problem. Noises and analog percussion, no problem. I could go on endlessly. It

[TropicThink]

They do sound great. They're superb digitals.

 

I agree with you on the MS2000 / MicroKorg sound. I actually bought both, but found that I couldn't stand the (to my ears) unmusical, digital and harsh sound of them, so I let them go. Lots of people like them, and I heard great things about them, which is why I was so thoroughly disappointed after having bought them. I honestly think they're horrible.Same thing happened with the Virus KC. Great reviews by everyone, great expectations, but I found it fairly boring to use. It never ignited any ideas, and was ultimately shipped off to some guy who likes making very german sounding trance stuff. The Virus sound is absolutely awesome in a 'sound designer way' but too plain to be musically inspiring to me. It's not harsh and ugly like the sound of those two Korgs, the problem is that it's just not interesting. So for me, it has little value. If I want the VA sound, I think the An1X is better - it might be the most underrated VA of them all (if you can get past the crappy UI, of course. Also, it won't appeal to those who care more about the way their studio looks than what they create in there).

 

Actually, when it comes to Korg I want to tell them that after the Trinity and the Z1, I'm not sure if I've REALLY liked any of their gear. The Trinity was superb, so why in the fcuk could they not make the Triton sound as good or even better? I also bought the Karma (partly because Herbie Hancock used them) and was disgusted with how thin it sounded. It felt very 'cheap' to me - and even the keys sucked. I'm saddened that Korg stuff went this way, because they used to make really nice instruments that really fueled my creativity. Even something like the 01/W has given me a TON of ideas while improvising, something that rarely happens on their new stuff.

 

My TG77 can sound quite warm. It still sounds digital, I suppose, but in a nice way. I love that instrument so much I'm now rebuying the keyboard version - the SY77 - that I sold 15 years ago, not appreciating it's value at the time.

 

Sometimes you can get some good things out of stuff like E-mu samplers (I have three of them, but only two working atm ) and even things like the SY85/TG500. It's not QUITE convincing, perhaps, but it's got musicality, which is more important to me than sounding 'analog.' Only analog synths sound analog, and copies of things are rarely any good anyway - that's just how stuff works in this universe.

 

My biggest problem and disappointment with the VA synths is that the sound feels like more like a 'drawing' of a sound to me, and not like the 'real' sound. It's kind of like if you took a painting and tried to copy it with CGI. The shape and the colors are there, but it's not the same thing. VAs have their place in music (at least some of them do) but they convey a different feeling than other synths, including those they try to emulate.

 

It's the same thing with soft synths. And it still surprises me how useless they are for some things that you'd think they work great for. Someone posted some 'space music' demos with one on here a little while ago, and it was really well done, with terrific programming and everything. Still, it didn't 'take me to space' so to speak. It didn't give me those images in my head that I get from the more organic sound of other synths. So for me, it just doesn't work. It DOES work for a lot of things, though, and I do find myself using soft synths more and more - just not for some of the things I was expecting to be able to use them for. My Arturia ARP2600 thing - probably the first softie I bought - does not sound like a real 2600, but it's very fun in a toyish way for someone who's never owned a real one, and it does find it's way to some of my tracks. Sometimes I hate it, and then sometimes it really works. I also bought the Korg Legacy Collection when it came out (with the controller) and it's fun and even useful now and then. I'm also really happy with the FM8. I've been trying to like Reason for a couple of years because it's so damn neat, but the sound bothers me. I can't get it to sound good (to me), and neither can most people who make music with it, it seems. If it sounded good, it'd be heaven, but for me it's really just a pile of {censored}, and I find myself having those thoughts confirmed every time I download stuff people made with it.

 

 

Haha, sorry for the silly and largely OT rant, I'll get back to work now. Promise.

 

 

EDIT: I forgot to put this in: The Roland S-760 was also great, really nice warm sound on that one. Nice filter, I wish they'd put something like it in all the JV / XP things too, which are very useful synths (I've been using them for 15 years now) but not QUITE what they could have been IMO. Anyway, we tried that sampler next to an Akai S6000 once, and everyone in the room thought it dusted the floor with the Akai soundwise on everything we played except for a few cymbals. If you want a nice warm and muscial sounding 16 bit hardware sampler, I think that's a good thing to look for. They should be fairly cheap, seeing as hardly anybody bothers with hardware samplers anymore.

 

Also, this reminds me that I have an old Casio CZ-1000 sitting around here somewhere. It's a very digital synth, of course, but it sounds surprisingly warm at times. Not in an analogish way, but still.

[AnalogGuy]

They do sound great. They're superb digitals. I agree with you on the MS2000 / MicroKorg sound. I actually bought both, but found that I couldn't stand the (to my ears) unmusical, digital and harsh sound of them, so I let them go. Lots of people like them, and I heard great things about them, which is why I was so thoroughly disappointed after having bought them. I honestly think they're horrible.Same thing happened with the Virus KC. Great reviews by everyone, great expectations, but I found it fairly boring to use. It never ignited any ideas, and was ultimately shipped off to some guy who likes making very german sounding trance stuff. The Virus sound is absolutely awesome in a 'sound designer way' but too plain to be musically inspiring to me. It's not harsh and ugly like the sound of those two Korgs, the problem is that it's just not interesting . So for me, it has little value. If I want the VA sound, I think the An1X is better - it might be the most underrated VA of them all (if you can get past the crappy UI, of course. Also, it won't appeal to those who care more about the way their studio looks than what they create in there). Actually, when it comes to Korg I want to tell them that after the Trinity and the Z1, I'm not sure if I've REALLY liked any of their gear. The Trinity was superb, so why in the fcuk could they not make the Triton sound as good or even better? I also bought the Karma (partly because Herbie Hancock used them) and was disgusted with how thin it sounded. It felt very 'cheap' to me - and even the keys sucked. I'm saddened that Korg stuff went this way, because they used to make really nice instruments that really fueled my creativity. Even something like the 01/W has given me a TON of ideas while improvising, something that rarely happens on their new stuff. My TG77 can sound quite warm. It still sounds digital, I suppose, but in a nice way. I love that instrument so much I'm now rebuying the keyboard version - the SY77 - that I sold 15 years ago, not appreciating it's value at the time. Sometimes you can get some good things out of stuff like E-mu samplers (I have three of them, but only two working atm ) and even things like the SY85/TG500. It's not QUITE convincing, perhaps, but it's got musicality, which is more important to me than sounding 'analog.' Only analog synths sound analog, and copies of things are rarely any good anyway - that's just how stuff works in this universe. My biggest problem and disappointment with the VA synths is that the sound feels like more like a 'drawing' of a sound to me, and not like the 'real' sound. It's kind of like if you took a painting and tried to copy it with CGI. The shape and the colors are there, but it's not the same thing. VAs have their place in music (at least some of them do) but they convey a different feeling than other synths, including those they try to emulate. It's the same thing with soft synths. And it still surprises me how useless they are for some things that you'd think they work great for. Someone posted some 'space music' demos with one on here a little while ago, and it was really well done, with terrific programming and everything. Still, it didn't 'take me to space' so to speak. It didn't give me those images in my head that I get from the more organic sound of other synths. So for me, it just doesn't work. It DOES work for a lot of things, though, and I do find myself using soft synths more and more - just not for some of the things I was expecting to be able to use them for. My Arturia ARP2600 thing - probably the first softie I bought - does not sound like a real 2600, but it's very fun in a toyish way for someone who's never owned a real one, and it does find it's way to some of my tracks. Sometimes I hate it, and then sometimes it really works. I also bought the Korg Legacy Collection when it came out (with the controller) and it's fun and even useful now and then. I'm also really happy with the FM8. I've been trying to like Reason for a couple of years because it's so damn neat, but the sound bothers me. I can't get it to sound good (to me), and neither can most people who make music with it, it seems. If it sounded good, it'd be heaven, but for me it's really just a pile of {censored}, and I find myself having those thoughts confirmed every time I download stuff people made with it. Haha, sorry for the silly and largely OT rant, I'll get back to work now. Promise. EDIT: I forgot to put this in: The Roland S-760 was also great, really nice warm sound on that one. Nice filter, I wish they'd put something like it in all the JV / XP things too, which are very useful synths (I've been using them for 15 years now) but not QUITE what they could have been IMO. Anyway, we tried that sampler next to an Akai S6000 once, and everyone in the room thought it dusted the floor with the Akai soundwise on everything we played except for a few cymbals. If you want a nice warm and muscial sounding 16 bit hardware sampler, I think that's a good thing to look for. They should be fairly cheap, seeing as hardly anybody bothers with hardware samplers anymore. Also, this reminds me that I have an old Casio CZ-1000 sitting around here somewhere. It's a very digital synth, of course, but it sounds surprisingly warm at times. Not in an analogish way, but still.

Thank you for your article I cannot say anything else but I agree about everything you said... in fact you stolen my word!

 

Anyway, I was thinking about buying Korg Karma as it sounded neat for me. I know already it's not so analogishly warm but it is high quality and very expressive digital machine... althought I haven't yet managed to try it :lol::lol: but what demos I have seen I really want to try it by myself...

 

The very common problem among these used gear is that we can rarely try them before buying... usually we buy these things because what we have seen and heard it... including those numerous reviews which differs very widely from side to side... some say it's crap and some say it's very versatile...

[OFM]

I agree with the K2000 the sound is simply awesome for a digital synth, as for the JD Ive never owned one,

 

I also agree with TropicThink for the TG/SY77 ( as Im currently hunting for an SY in good shape ).

 

OFM.

[TropicThink]

Thank you for your article I cannot say anything else but I agree about everything you said... in fact you stolen my word! Anyway, I was thinking about buying Korg Karma as it sounded neat for me. I know already it's not so analogishly warm but it is high quality and very expressive digital machine... althought I haven't yet managed to try it :lol: :lol: but what demos I have seen I really want to try it by myself... The very common problem among these used gear is that we can rarely try them before buying... usually we buy these things because what we have seen and heard it... including those numerous reviews which differs very widely from side to side... some say it's crap and some say it's very versatile...

 

Cool.

 

If you like the sound of the Karma, I won't blame you. Go get one. You're certainly right that it can be quite an expressive synth. I personally wasn't happy with the sound of it, though, and when I sold it I didn't miss it for one moment.

 

I agree with your points on relying on online reviews and what others think when buying stuff second hand. It's very hit and miss. For instance, I bought the MS2000 and MicroKorg largely based on the rave reviews they were getting. I was, of course, quite disappointed. People still say they sound analog and warm, which just weirds me out. Same thing about the Ion - according to some people it's REALLY analog sounding and sounds SO great. No, it doesn't. I think it sounds like crap, honestly (Although I should add that I HAVE heard some nice things come out of it as well - the Ion isn't ALL bad). Like the SH-201, for instance. Those two synths look mighty cool, but then you play them and they sound like {censored}. But then some people think the Andromeda and Dave Smiths new stuff sound cheap, while I love them and think they're great.

 

After the Viruses (which are 'good' yet musically uninteresting), the MS2000 and the Ion (that I luckily tried out so that I didn't have to order one only to be disappointed) I've learned to use my ears and not let other people's opinions and silly hype dictate my purchasing decisions. It's a little easier now that you have some great demos to go with online, but you never REALLY know until you use an instrument yourself.

[ChristianRock]

I hope you guys will keep telling everyone these synths are the best (the JD is great, just wasn't for me at the point of time I've had it).

Continuing this might ensure that other discontinued digitals which are also useful, stay cheap in the used market, until I can buy the one that is in my GAS list right now

[evildragon]

I would say any Kurzweil does an awesome job at sounding analog.

 

Props to Korg Z1 too.

[TropicThink]

I hope you guys will keep telling everyone these synths are the best (the JD is great, just wasn't for me at the point of time I've had it). Continuing this might ensure that other discontinued digitals which are also useful, stay cheap in the used market, until I can buy the one that is in my GAS list right now

 

Haha, I was thinking that I should start a mass propaganda campaign against the synths I LIKE in an effort to make their second hand prices drop.

 

Anyone wants to join in on 'let's bad mouth good synths' campaign? I mean, is it that hard to claim that, for instance, the MiniMoog is going to sound REALLY dated before we know it? Or that the JP8 sounds like 80s cheese and looks like an arranger keyboard? Or that any synth with bio-degradable parts like wooden end panels should be sold before it rots?

[Pilotwings]

I'll keep this short 'cause I'm at work, but I think you have a good ear for synths. Although there are many other synths I'd like to own, The Roland JD-990 and Kurzweil (I have the 2661) are VERY good sounding instruments. They don't sound exactly like analog synths, but can be very "warm" sounding in their own right.

 

I consider myself very picky when it comes to the instruments I select to use, and these two play an important role in my music.

[TropicThink]

I agree with the K2000 the sound is simply awesome for a digital synth, as for the JD Ive never owned one, I also agree with TropicThink for the TG/SY77 ( as Im currently hunting for an SY in good shape ). OFM.

 

Cool, happy to see we're on the same page regarding the 77s - good luck with finding one. I don't think that should be too much of a problem, there are probably quite a few of them around, and apart from a questionable floppy drive those intstruments are built really well. Some of them might be a little worn out from lots of live use, though - that's something to keep in mind of course. The backlight will most probably be gone, but in a studio situation you can probably live without it (I do) and they're fixable anyway, although I hear doing that is a bigger job than you'd expect.

 

It's a great synth, superbly powerful and certainly not lacking in the musicality department. Very expressive - and at times silky smooth.

[KingVidiot]

Yep, the prices are going up thanks to all the props. I recently saw a JD-800 with cosmetic issues go for $800 on ebay not counting shipping.

[zoink]

Kurzweils are some of the best deals going in workstations these days. I'm surprised more people don't pick them up, just for the sake of having VAST. It's a lot of workstation and synth for just a few hundred dollars.

[AnalogGuy]

 

I'll keep this short 'cause I'm at work, but I think you have a good ear for synths. Although there are many other synths I'd like to own, The Roland JD-990 and Kurzweil (I have the 2661) are VERY good sounding instruments. They don't sound exactly like analog synths, but can be very "warm" sounding in their own right. I consider myself very picky when it comes to the instruments I select to use, and these two play an important role in my music.

 

I guess new Kurzweils like K2661 sounds different and less analog???

[Pilotwings]

 

I guess new Kurzweils like K2661 sounds different and less analog???

 

 

Well put it this way, I went from a K2000 to a K2500X, to a K2661 and had them all "upgraded" with all the options & also had rackmounts of the K2000 and K2500RS at different times. I consider what I have done a continued upgrade path. So to answer your question, NO definitely NOT less analog sounding. But wait - I didn't buy these various instruments to replace analog synths. If Kurzweil ever comes out with a K3000/3500 (whatever) in rackmount form and they actually make common options as standard (like sampling, etc.), I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Until then, I'm content with what I've got.

[wheresgrant3]

Hmmm... no love for the EX5 or EX7? The Yamaha EX series are incredibly warm and expressive (especially with it's second mod wheel).

[Analogholic]

If you like the K-2000, then try a K2500 with KDFX, or better yet a K26xx in any format, and you will be BLOWN AWAY !!!

 

The great KDFX, FX unit makes a BIG improvement, you can

[Cowzar]

Hmmm... no love for the EX5 or EX7? The Yamaha EX series are incredibly warm and expressive (especially with it's second mod wheel).

 

You will get my vote on that. The EX5 sound wise is awesome.

FDSP always makes me smile.

 

I always hope that FDSP/AN/VL/ & FM are only a workstation away with the next Motif from the guys with the 3 tuning forks.

 

The JD series I've always envied and marvelled at what comes out of them. Fully deserved praise.

 

The K2000, what can I say. It launched a dynasty for Kurzweil Music Systems. Everything seems to be a hybrid of it to this very day.

How many sounds can one make from a weeny ROM?

[Mike Conway]

 

The Virus sound is absolutely awesome in a 'sound designer way' but too plain to be musically inspiring to me.

 

 

Definitely right about the "sound designer" appeal. I try to coax it to be :

 

as well.

 

 

My TG77 can sound quite warm. It still sounds digital, I suppose, but in a nice way. I love that instrument so much I'm now rebuying the keyboard version - the SY77 - that I sold 15 years ago, not appreciating it's value at the time.

 

 

Good synth. I sold it for the SY99. Some demo sounds, HERE.

 

Agree about the Z1 and E-MU samplers, too.

[augerinn]

{censored}, and I sold my K-2000.

 

With the VAST Essentials download (25 bucks) it was using just the VAST engine, no samples, and yeah, it was nice.

 

Or, I could load up the Classic Synth factory CD, and emulate warm Pro 5 horns etc.

 

I'm saving my pennies for a PC3X. Until then, I've got plenty of Digalog to keep me happy.

[Juan Ebola]

Since it has been evoked, I should mention that I have an sy99 in very good condition, for sale. Theoretically, it should be passing into the hands of my mentor, droolmaster0 tomorrow. All things in moderation.

[ChromaLord]

I have never heard any version of a modeler that has "blown" me away.

I have owned over a 100 including the Z-1, K2500, JD990, D-50, JP8080,Nord 3, Supernova 2, Waldorf Q etc.etc. I have sold nearly all of them.

The only ones I really like are the Oasys, Virus TI (but am not "blown" away) and I'll have to wait to see about the Solaris and the Nord Wave.

[Awake77]

I've never owned a K2000, but I did have a JD-800 for a while and I own and love my Korg Z1.

 

Outstanding sounding synths, but I wouldnt say they sound 'analog' really. Very alive and organic with a presence in sound and ease of programmability that makes them a joy to use.

 

They are certainly 'digital' synths, but in a very good way - I like my Z1 as much as I do my A6, but compare the two side by side and they are totally different beasts.

[evildragon]

I have never heard any version of a modeler that has "blown" me away. I have owned over a 100 including the Z-1, K2500, JD990, D-50, JP8080,Nord 3, Supernova 2, Waldorf Q etc.etc. I have sold nearly all of them. The only ones I really like are the Oasys, Virus TI (but am not "blown" away) and I'll have to wait to see about the Solaris and the Nord Wave.

 

Some serious pair of critical ears, then!

[flat earth]

I have never heard any version of a modeler that has "blown" me away. I have owned over a 100 including the Z-1, K2500, JD990, D-50, JP8080,Nord 3, Supernova 2, Waldorf Q etc.etc. I have sold nearly all of them. The only ones I really like are the Oasys, Virus TI (but am not "blown" away) and I'll have to wait to see about the Solaris and the Nord Wave.

 

Alas, my Waldorf Q and previously owned Korg Z1 failed miserably when trying to 'Not blow me away'