Test of Roland's V-PIANO and new PHA-III keyboard.

[The Audacity Works]

I can't remember the details, but the V-Piano is supposed to use 3x the horsepower of the Fantom-G (???). One of its processors is dedicated to keytracking and communication with the sound engine. Allegedly, Pianoteq can't give you the same experience with even the best weighted MIDI controller, because it's just basically dealing with note ons, note offs, CC64, and maybe aftertouch.

 

But again, I haven't personally heard the V-Piano yet, so...

 

Nor do I know what kind of practical advantage an entire Fantom chip would have when dedicated to keybed

[Dr.Wu]

Here is my demo of the V-Piano

http://vimeo.com/4155547

Here is the "same" song played on the Pianoteq3

http://vimeo.com/3501530

[CyberGene]

Dr. Wu, thank you for the demos! To be really honest I am not very impressed by the sound but that could be because of the mix and the audio compression used. Is it possible for you to ask Scott to record the factory demos (or even better - a live recording) of the main patches through the SPDIF digital out from the piano and NOT compress them in any way (except maybe for lossless compression like FLAC/APE)?

I am a little bit disappointed that Roland haven't still put any decent uncompressed demos of such an expensive piano with supposedly the best sound among digital pianos...

And by the way - I hate Pianoteq, that must be the most uninspiring piano sound I have ever played - it is electronically artificial, both hollow and bright, no depth at all. Of course - it is playable, but it doesn't inspire me. I own an upright and have played real grand pianos like Steinways, Yamahas and others and can really say that Pianoteq is far from being realistic. I prefer Ivory Italian Grand despite it lacking string resonance, etc. To me this proves a piano is not only the effects of resonance and whatever happens there, but mainly the quality of the timbre, etc. - something which Pianoteq is lacking heavily.

[Dr.Wu]

I do have an uncompressed version of the track that i can send you via yousendit if you give me your emailadress. Just send me a PM.

[midi]

What do you think of N.I. Akoustik compared to PianoTeq?

 

http://www.americanmusical.com/Item--i-ROL-VPIANO

[Dr.Wu]

Akoustik is one of my least favs.

I have Ivory which i prefer compared to NI but Pianoteq definetly is more responsive and fun to play than both of them.

[evildragon]

Allegedly, Pianoteq can't give you the same experience with even the best weighted MIDI controller, because it's just basically dealing with note ons, note offs, CC64, and maybe aftertouch.

Well, Pianoteq really uses all the 127 velocity levels MIDI can provide, plus you can shape the velocity curve so that it fits your style of playing and your MIDI controller. MIDI setup is really improved in v3, you can assign pretty much anything to anything, as on Kurzweils. So... it's flexible.

@CyberGene - I really beg to differ. Pianoteq inspires me the most out of all virtual pianos I've tried. It's the flexibility that it offers, not only to the piano player, but to a synthesist as well, you can come up with some really strange new sounds, and I like that very much. I managed to get a banjo out of a piano model

[Son of HuHefner]

That's why in '01 I bought a Yamaha T116 upright manufactued at the Georgia USA plant. (Which I think has been shut down). Only needs tuning once a year.

to the head of the class for you

Once a year tuning ? You have a fine ear


My XS Motif never needs a tuning

[Son of HuHefner]

Dr. Wu, thank you for the demos! To be really honest I am not very impressed by the sound but that could be because of the mix and the audio compression used. Is it possible for you to ask Scott to record the factory demos (or even better - a live recording) of the main patches through the SPDIF digital out from the piano and NOT compress them in any way (except maybe for lossless compression like FLAC/APE)? I am a little bit disappointed that Roland haven't still put any decent uncompressed demos of such an expensive piano with supposedly the best sound among digital pianos... And by the way - I hate Pianoteq, that must be the most uninspiring piano sound I have ever played - it is electronically artificial, both hollow and bright, no depth at all. Of course - it is playable, but it doesn't inspire me. I own an upright and have played real grand pianos like Steinways, Yamahas and others and can really say that Pianoteq is far from being realistic. I prefer Ivory Italian Grand despite it lacking string resonance, etc. To me this proves a piano is not only the effects of resonance and whatever happens there, but mainly the quality of the timbre, etc. - something which Pianoteq is lacking heavily.

check your $10 computer speakers for the problem

[mate_stubb]

Yesterday I spent some time on the Pianoteq site listening to a lot of demos, my first visit since v3 came out.

 

Using "nothing special" ear buds, I have to say that I was very impressed. The CP-80 wasn't that great, but the classical pianos were outstanding. If you like overly bright rompler pianos, they may not be for you.

[CyberGene]

check your $10 computer speakers for the problem

I have tested Pianoteq both through Sennheiser headphones and through Hi-Fi speakers Tannoy worth $300 each and MOSFET amplifier Pioneer, so if that's not enough, what should be?

[CyberGene]

Later today I will play something with both Italian Grand and Pianoteq and will put the uncompressed files for comparison.

[Son of HuHefner]

To me the piano timbre is something very special and intimate. I don't need a banjo sound out of a piano software if that main piano sound is metallic and artificial, no matter how flexible its tweaks could be. I have tested Pianoteq both through Sennheiser headphones and through Hi-Fi speakers Tannoy worth $300 each and MOSFET amplifier Pioneer, so if that's not enough, what should be?

Home stereo audio equipment for a $7000 V piano ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/PIONEER-GM-X862-760W-MOSFET-AMPLIFIER-EXC.-'L%40%40K'_W0QQitemZ260327730726QQcmdZViewItem

I think you need a serious audio upgrade

[CyberGene]

I haven't even heard any high quality audio demos from V-Piano and you concluded I am gonna buy one and hook it to my home hi-fi equipment That's a spectacular prophetical gift of yourself! Please tell me the winning numbers for the lottery?

[CyberGene]

Now, here's some comparison between Pianoteq and Ivory Italian Grand:

Expression (Ivory - Italian 10' Concert Grand)

Expression (Pianoteq 2.2 - Grand C2 Chamber)

In order to avoid any bias, I have first recorded the MIDI only listening to the piano sound of my Roland RD-700SX. Then used the MIDI to export two files from Ivory Italian Grand and Pianoteq 2.2 using their default presets - no tweaking, no EQ, no nothing.

Pianoteq is just a mess, that's it.

[Son of HuHefner]

I haven't even heard any high quality audio demos from V-Piano and you concluded I am gonna buy one and hook it to my home hi-fi equipment That's a spectacular prophetical gift of yourself! Please tell me the winning numbers for the lottery?

right, and you have $7000

[girevik]

There's no way I'm going to audition a $7000 instrument over the Interwebz. I'd have to arrange for a road trip for that kind of investment.

[evildragon]

Expression (Pianoteq 2.2 - Grand C2 Chamber) Pianoteq is just a mess, that's it.

 

 

 

Dude, are you really not aware that there is v3 out which is vastly improved over 2.2??? :poke:

[CyberGene]

From what I've heard in the demos for version 3 "vastly improved" is vastly overstated Oh, and by the way - I am not using legal version of 2.2 and I am not ashamed of that. I am really thankful to the crackers who did it, because I had the chance to spend some time with a fully functional copy of it which made me clear I don't want to buy it. And yes, I have all of my software purchased legally when I like it including Ivory.

[evildragon]

Well it's not overstatement as I have witnessed the beta-testing. Major improvements were done, and more major improvements WILL be done, so you just sit there and wait.

 

Sampled pianos are going DOWN in just a few years more.

 

Also, you might get warned or banned for some of your statements here.

[kennychaffin]

The sound is better in most regards to samples, yes. Connection to the instrument is far more realistic, the sound actually responds dynamically to what you play just as on real piano. The sympathetic and soundboard resonances are something that can't be well reproduced with sampling, plus, samples are STATIC. Physical modelling is dynamic and reacts in realtime, just like on a real instrument. For example, when repeating one key really fast, there are always some slight changes in the timbre, and round robin samples aren't real solution to this. Also, half-pedalling is never propertly done on sampled pianos, whereas it's a breeze doing it on physical models. Also, I don't know if any sampled piano libraries have sostenuto pedal samples. This is crucial on any piano. Physical models emulate it. But... V-Piano is unfortunately too expensive. More viable and affordable solution is Pianoteq 3 still.

 

 

I've got to agree here. Other than the portability of it being all in one unit. It seems the software synths like Pianoteq do the same if not more.

[CyberGene]

I am not providing pirated links or so, I have just confessed that I have used such The trial version is not just time trial but is also intentionally missing some notes and that's ridiculous. How can I test something which is crippled? Ivory has a fully functional copy for 5 days (well, you cannot export but at least you can play, play, play and enjoy and be inspired). Anyway, I will give a chance to version 3.

[evildragon]

v3 has microphone modelling, you can put up to 5 microphones around or in the piano, vary how much the lid is opened, etc. Reverb is improved and the new models are also very very cool and expressive. Just try the demo and stay in C major

[Dr.Wu]

i agree-pianoteq3 is a major improvement compared to version2.

They still have some work ahead of them to make it sound like the V-Piano. But i can already enjoy playing with it very much.

[Pianoman1976]

I would like to say a few words.

If you know what you are doing, you will be able to buy the V-Piano for about $4200. You should always be able to get your toys for 30% off retail. If retail is $6000, then $4200 will be the bottom line. While this is still high, it's within reason!

Also, I've got to slam those who defend Pianoteq, even version 3! While it may be a fascinating piece of lean software - the fact of the matter is that it does not sound like a real piano. As a avid piano guy who knows pianos, I will go the mat with this one. I can't imagine ANY real piano players who think this software sounds real. I'm deeply mystified by this bizarre sociological anomaly - real musicians claiming this thing sounds good.

I support the Pianoteq project and hope they will one day emerge with a better product, yet for now there are countless others that smoke the socks off it.

Lastly, I'm not only looking forward to the release of the V-Piano, but the future stage piano controllers coming from Roland with the PHA-III keybed. According to talks I've had with Roland, it's inevitable that the next wave of stage pianos will all have the PHA-III razzle dazzle - meaning you could get the great action and save a lot of money. Nothing anytime soon will beat the V-Piano, yet it will be nice to have the option, if we don't want to spend $4200, to buy a $1000 PHA-III controller and use our software pianos.