Members bmichels Posted April 12, 2009 Members Share Posted April 12, 2009 Does the new PHA III keyboard really has a more realistic action ? feel like an acoustic keyboard ? Is the sound THAT better than "old" samples pianos ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 12, 2009 Members Share Posted April 12, 2009 The sound is better in most regards to samples, yes. Connection to the instrument is far more realistic, the sound actually responds dynamically to what you play just as on real piano. The sympathetic and soundboard resonances are something that can't be well reproduced with sampling, plus, samples are STATIC. Physical modelling is dynamic and reacts in realtime, just like on a real instrument. For example, when repeating one key really fast, there are always some slight changes in the timbre, and round robin samples aren't real solution to this. Also, half-pedalling is never propertly done on sampled pianos, whereas it's a breeze doing it on physical models. Also, I don't know if any sampled piano libraries have sostenuto pedal samples. This is crucial on any piano. Physical models emulate it. But... V-Piano is unfortunately too expensive. More viable and affordable solution is Pianoteq 3 still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr.Wu Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I recently had the opportunity to play the V-Piano myself and this thing is a miracle. Nothing else comes close. Sure its expensive but compared to a real grand its a bargain, especially if you consider mentainance costs.What amazed me most is the organic way it talks back to the player just like a real instrument does. I will post a demo real soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members zzzxtreme Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 how does this compare to G.E.M propiano/promega? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xoeo Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 The sound is better in most regards to samples, yes. Connection to the instrument is far more realistic, the sound actually responds dynamically to what you play just as on real piano. The sympathetic and soundboard resonances are something that can't be well reproduced with sampling, plus, samples are STATIC. Physical modelling is dynamic and reacts in realtime, just like on a real instrument. For example, when repeating one key really fast, there are always some slight changes in the timbre, and round robin samples aren't real solution to this. Also, half-pedalling is never propertly done on sampled pianos, whereas it's a breeze doing it on physical models. Also, I don't know if any sampled piano libraries have sostenuto pedal samples. This is crucial on any piano. Physical models emulate it. But... V-Piano is unfortunately too expensive. More viable and affordable solution is Pianoteq 3 still. are you sure your not on the pianoteq payroll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members moondad Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Also, I don't know if any sampled piano libraries have sostenuto pedal samples. This is crucial on any piano. Physical models emulate it Sorry, but this is a pretty ridiculous overstatement. To the vast majority of players, a sostenuto pedal is completely superfluous. No upright piano even has one at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Oh really? Well mine has. Exactly it has sustain and sostenuto. The fact that sostenuto on a grand piano and upright are slightly different is another argument. And yes, sostenuto matters to me. are you sure your not on the pianoteq payroll? No I'm not, although I do have it and love it. I can't justify spitting 5000 euros just for a piano sound, regardless of the quality of sound and keybed. Pianoteq is more affordable yet VERY satisfying solution. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bmichels Posted April 13, 2009 Author Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 OK OK ... the sound is really better, but what about the PHA-III mecanism ? Is it a breakthrough of still less good that a real acoustic piano's keyboard that use real hammers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Don't know, haven't tried it, but I'd say it's pretty good. Even though nothing can really substitute an actual mechanism which is consisting of key-hammer-string and the resistance the player feels when hammer hits the string. There are keybeds with escapement, but those are working in only one, and not both directions, as real escapement does. Also when I played those keybeds, the escapement feel was mostly exaggerated, so... It's up to personal preference. I don't like too heavy keybed feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members midi Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 No digital piano will be able to re-create the feeling of the soundboard resonating from the strings of an acoustic piano. But the Roland V-Piano is the best yet at trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 and who will actually buy one at $6000-$7000 ? I know of 1 person brave enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHexagon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I'm seriously considering the V-Piano. It's a bargain for what it does and no tuning bills. It's got classy look as well, I think sort of modern CP80 appeal. Although I'm very tempted, I'll wait for the Yamaha's move and the technology to get more mature. For me the V-Piano is the greatest revelation of this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I understand the desire for a consistent feel between piano and keyboard. But that's consistency, not real playability. Spending thousands to get an "escapement feel" on an instrument that doesn't need a physical escapement seems a bit like spending extra to get an electric car that simulates the shift points of a gas car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 AFAIK, escapement of the keyboard action on the pianos was a design flaw, much like key click on hammonds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Don't know, haven't tried it, but I'd say it's pretty good. This makes no sense at all. If you don't try something how do you know it's good? People get mislead by posts that pick or pan keyboards by people who have never played them. This happens all the time here, someone decides keyboard A is better than keyboard B, but they have never played either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, Roland has a history of good and great weighted actions. I have played some of them and they felt good. Can't see the reason why would they {censored} it up now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHexagon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 This makes no sense at all. If you don't try something how do you know it's good? People get mislead by posts that pick or pan keyboards by people who have never played them. This happens all the time here, someone decides keyboard A is better than keyboard B, but they have never played either. If someone decides to buy a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dan88z Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 If someone decides to buy a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Son of HuHefner Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 For me the V-Piano is the greatest revelation of this decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHexagon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 But sometimes it is enough to see a you tube video to point out something and it's not going to change when played in person. I've heard some demos of V-Piano and, to me, it sounds better than sampled pianos from other demos. And I haven't even seen the V-piano in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomkeen Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think it is way overpriced for what it does, but I can see that it would be an excellent solution for some people. Personally, I could not justify paying several thousand bucks for a good piano sound. I have that in my PC3x and it comes with a lot more than just piano. I'd rather buy some vintage synths, better monitors, and complete my studio, but that's just me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueHexagon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I think it is way overpriced for what it does, but I can see that it would be an excellent solution for some people. Personally, I could not justify paying several thousand bucks for a good piano sound. I have that in my PC3x and it comes with a lot more than just piano.I'd rather buy some vintage synths, better monitors, and complete my studio, but that's just me... Well, V-Piano would be probably the most overpriced synth ever but it's not a synth :-) There are many posts here where people want comparisons and opinions on a different boards that are in the same class, and people reply who have never played any of them. At least if you have used one for a period of time, you can give some valid input on that one board and say I can't comment on the rest. At least be up front about it and don't mislead people by sounding like you are experienced with a piece of gear when the closest you ever came to it was the Musicians Friend website. Too bad the UK is such a remote and small country, I can't find a single physical instance of any electronic instrument I'd like to talk about. I think I should switch to Read Only Mode or post stupid pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members evildragon Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 Well, V-Piano would be probably the most overpriced synth ever but it's not a synth :-) It is EXACTLY a synth, because it uses modelling. With tweaking the {censored} out of parameters you can get various disturbing sounds which don't resemble piano at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Hamburglar Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I was really hoping / expecting for more from Dr. Wu, the one guy who has actually played one, in the last 20 responses but alas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Audacity Works Posted April 13, 2009 Members Share Posted April 13, 2009 I don't think Roland expects to sell these to everybody and their mom; it's most likely an OASYS-type product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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