Test of Roland's V-PIANO and new PHA-III keyboard.

[Tomkeen]

I thought I would. I don't want to insult anyone with my opinion though. Like I said, the idea is awesome, but it just needs further development. I haven't tried pianoteq 3 yet, but I think that will get extremely close to the V-piano, that's way I don't get that ridiculous pricetag..

[goldenpiggy]

It's good to hear your opinion.

 

Playing V Piano through headphones really doesn't do it justice. You really ought to to try the V Piano through good loudspeakers or monitors. It's a totally different beast. I don't know why, but through headphones (and I have pretty decent pair of headphones) or recorded, the V Piano lacks the ambience of a good sampled piano or live recordings of piano performances. They must not have modeled mic positions.

 

I think the V Piano is anything but thin. Try the All Silver or Triple patches. I've never heard a more meatier piano before.

 

I'm surprised you didn't like the key action. I think the action is just so silky smooth. I have never been able to do trills or glissandos on digital pianos like I can on the V Piano.

 

This has turned out to be a purchase where I didn't second-guessed myself. I'm truly enjoying it.

[kennychaffin]

 

It's good to hear your opinion. Playing V Piano through headphones really doesn't do it justice. You really ought to to try the V Piano through good loudspeakers or monitors. It's a totally different beast. I don't know why, but through headphones (and I have pretty decent pair of headphones) or recorded, the V Piano lacks the ambience of a good sampled piano or live recordings of piano performances. They must not have modeled mic positions. I think the V Piano is anything but thin. Try the All Silver or Triple patches. I've never heard a more meatier piano before. I'm surprised you didn't like the key action. I think the action is just so silky smooth. I have never been able to do trills or glissandos on digital pianos like I can on the V Piano. This has turned out to be a purchase where I didn't second-guessed myself. I'm truly enjoying it.

 

 

I disagree with the headphone argument, particularly when he said he used the same headphones on a different piano and got much better results.

 

Apples to Apples.

[goldenpiggy]

Next to playing the board yourself, a very good way of testing the dynamics of a digital piano is to play back some good MIDI files of classical scores.

 

Here's a place where you can download exemplary classical music MIDI files.

 

http://www.piano-e-competition.com/ecompetition/default.asp

 

Go to the "Competition History" and select the year. You will see a list of all the competitors and their pieces. Select the "Enchanced" zip package for each performer.

 

Truly amazing what some of these kids can play.

[evildragon]

It's just a subjective thing, listening and comparing various equipment.

 

My guess is that Tomkeen got too used on sampled pianos and he can't cope with the fact that now there are no "just" 3 velocity layers, but many more.

 

j/k

[kennychaffin]

 

Next to playing the board yourself, a very good way of testing the dynamics of a digital piano is to play back some good MIDI files of classical scores. Here's a place where you can download exemplary classical music MIDI files. http://www.piano-e-competition.com/ecompetition/default.asp Go to the "Competition History" and select the year. You will see a list of all the competitors and their pieces. Select the "Enchanced" zip package for each performer. Truly amazing what some of these kids can play.

 

 

Agreed. But man it's gotta be rigged with Yamaha as the sponser. :poke:

[goldenpiggy]

 

I disagree with the headphone argument, particularly when he said he used the same headphones on a different piano and got much better results. Apples to Apples.

 

 

When you get a chance, go try it and I think you will see (hear) what I mean. I much prefer playing it through loudspeakers than headphones for the ambionic (sp?) realism. Sampled piano can capture the ambience through mic placement, but modeled piano has to recreate it from scratch, which must not be that easy (or which Roland didn't do a good job.)

 

Hopefully the system settings on the V Piano he tried out was correct. If he had the 4 channel mode selected but with out A to the phone setting, it would sound pretty bad.

[kennychaffin]

 

When you get a chance, go try it and I think you will see (hear) what I mean. I much prefer playing it through loudspeakers than headphones for the ambionic (sp?) realism. Sampled piano can capture the ambience through mic placement, but modeled piano has to recreate it from scratch, which must not be that easy (or which Roland didn't do a good job.) Hopefully the system settings on the V Piano he tried out was correct. If he had the 4 channel mode selected but with out A to the phone setting, it would sound pretty bad.

 

 

 

That may be true, but that's not the point. If you use the same setup (headphones) to listen to two different pianos, the you are actually comparing the pianos, not the sound system.

[kennychaffin]

It's just a subjective thing, listening and comparing various equipment. ...

 

Definite truth in that.

 

[Tomkeen]

I disagree with the headphone argument, particularly when he said he used the same headphones on a different piano and got much better results. Apples to Apples.

 

Truth, still, it's all my opinion. Some people say I'm nuts, so eveyone needs to make their own decision and not listen to me

[kennychaffin]

.... Truth, still, it's all my opinion. Some people say I'm nuts, so eveyone needs to make their own decision and not listen to me

 

OMG, NOW he tells me this!

 

 

True though, to each his own. I'm still thinking about purchasing Pianoteq 3...but just not certain yet....do like the sound/operation though.

[21stschiz]

You guys really should go play one before you spend days dissing it online, for various reasons (i.e. its made by Roland, it costs too much, it's too heavy, it only comes in black, it has no samples, the stand has no micro inch height adjustments, and on and on).

The bottom line is its the closest thing to a real piano on the market,

a bargain price wise when compared to a grand piano.You cannot judge this instrument by listening to sound files off of the internet!

YOU MUST PLAY THIS INSTRUMENT TO APPRECIATE IT,

IT RESPONDS LIKE A REAL ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT!

And by the way to all the musicteq nuts out there, you are not even close,

it sounds like over EQ'ed 12 string compared to the v-piano.

Go find one and play it, make sure its hooked up to some good speakers, no headphones, AND MAKE SURE THE AMBIENT SPEAKERS ARE ALSO CONNECTED AND TURNED ON. THEY MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

Try out the pedals, all 3 actually work compared to sample based pianos.

Is it worth the price? Evidently to some people.

[Pianoman1976]

 

AND MAKE SURE THE AMBIENT SPEAKERS ARE ALSO CONNECTED AND TURNED ON. THEY MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

 

 

 

So we need additional speakers for the V-Piano to sound good. I wasn't sure about this. I knew this was a set-up option discussed in the manual, but not sure how nessasary it was.

 

So that further increases the cost.

 

I no longer have a copy of the manual. I wish I did because I'm curious to know if Roland advises on which type of speakers to use?

 

Also, Roland classifies this as a pro stage piano. I can't imagine many people using additional ambient speakers on stage. It's not practical and it definitaley doesn't fly if your talking a large venue gig.

 

Now I'm just a bit confused.

[kennychaffin]

You guys really should go play one before you spend days dissing it online, for various reasons (i.e. its made by Roland, it costs too much, it's too heavy, it only comes in black, it has no samples, the stand has no micro inch height adjustments, and on and on). The bottom line is its the closest thing to a real piano on the market, a bargain price wise when compared to a grand piano.You cannot judge this instrument by listening to sound files off of the internet! YOU MUST PLAY THIS INSTRUMENT TO APPRECIATE IT, IT RESPONDS LIKE A REAL ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT! And by the way to all the musicteq nuts out there, you are not even close, it sounds like over EQ'ed 12 string compared to the v-piano. Go find one and play it, make sure its hooked up to some good speakers, no headphones, AND MAKE SURE THE AMBIENT SPEAKERS ARE ALSO CONNECTED AND TURNED ON. THEY MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. Try out the pedals, all 3 actually work compared to sample based pianos. Is it worth the price? Evidently to some people.

 

Well since you put it that way......

 

Have you tried Truepianos or Pianoteq with a proper keyboard and proper pedals?

 

YOU MUST PLAY IT TO APPRECIATE IT,

IT RESPONDS LIKE A REAL ACOUSTIC INSTRUMENT!

 

and the rightAMBIENT SPEAKERS ARE CONNECTED AND TURNED ON. THEY MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

 

[Pianoman1976]

 

Have you tried Truepianos or Pianoteq with a proper keyboard and proper pedals?

 

 

 

This is actually a good point. I've been baffled by how anyone can think Pianoteq sounds real. In fact, it's been a deep sociological mystery to me that other piano saavy folk give Pianoteq any credit. I think I mentioned this earlier in this thread.

 

I don't dispute that it behaves like a piano, but to say it sounds like a piano is wackadoo.

 

Maybe I'm just using the wrong piano to trigger it? I'm very curious to try it with a different set-up. I want to like it!

 

I have to drive 20 mi outside of my comfort zone down to Hollywood to the closest V-Piano at a Sam Ash store. I wish my local stores had it! I'll check back with you all after I get down there and try it.

[evildragon]

It's the truth, Pianoteq will play better depending on your keyboard controller, you have to be very careful when you correlate the controller's velocity curve, and Pianoteq's velocity curve. It makes a world of difference.

[DNAUYTIC]

21stschiz, thanks for writing what you wrote above. I, too, feel the same way, and have been meaning to join this forum to express similar sentiments, but only upon reading your message did I feel compelled enough to do so.

 

It's common on various gear/musician forums, I've learned, that so many people offer detailed opinions on gear they haven't even tried. I mean, hey, I can understand someone that hasn't tried something offering a thought or two, at a very high level, but I continually see people do the following (and not in this forum only):

 

 

 

I mention the above because prior to purchasing a V-Piano I read nearly every item on the Internet that had anything to do with an opinion of the V-Piano. Almost all of them were written by people that hadn't even tried it. What are people doing out there? People, it's time to go out and try things instead of creating a voice on a subject that you are unfamiliar with! Until you've tried it, don't critique it or you're just offering noise! We have WAY too much noise as it is!

 

After trying a V-Piano out I purchased one and am extremely happy with it. I'll tell you this: Without even considering its sound, just to have an electronic device that feels, when playing, identical to the real instrument it emulates, is worth its weight in gold. When I play the V-Piano I feel like I'm playing a grand. Do I feel exactly like I'm playing a Steinway D or a Bosendorfer? No! No two instruments are identical! Do I feel like I might be playing a Steinway D, a Bosendorfer, or any other quality grand piano? Yes, I do! The action is that good and the keys feel that good!

 

Pianoman1976, good posts. I took you up on your advice and purchased from FullCompass. In the interest of not getting into a pricing argument with the forum (I have zero time to go back and forth here a lot), I did get the V-Piano with a hefty discount from the listed price on all the other sites. I can also tell you that I called FullCompass twice, and they had no notion of it being the same person between calls. The first time I was offered a good discount from the normally listed price of $5995 that one sees, and the second time a much more discounted price than that. Apparently it's a moving target at FullCompass so you have room to negotiate. I'm not a really picky negotiator when it comes to this sort of thing so I was happy with the second price, but some love to negotiate and they might be able to get it for what you mentioned earlier ($4200). I can tell you that I did not get it for that cheap, but did for a significant amount less than $5995. Please, no one ask me for how much...you're on your own there.

 

I can also say that I'm very happy with the V-Piano. It's a wonderful instrument. Whether the price is right for you depends upon how much you make (this is the factor that comes into play for anything you ever buy). I can afford it so I bought it, no questions asked. If I couldn't afford it, I wouldn't buy it, and I also wouldn't bomb Roland for asking what they ask for it. Is it worth it? It all depends upon what you can afford, as always. For me? No question about it....it's a fantastic instrument. Truly. Is it heavy? WTF cares? If I was gigging every night I might care or I might try lifting some weights. If it still bothered me then I wouldn't buy it for gigs. It weighs what it weighs, for Pete's sake. Whether this is too much for you depends upon your requirements.

 

Trust me on this: It's a great instrument. Really. I have one right upstairs, so I know what I'm talking about. I've tried Ivory, Acoustik, Quantum Leap, and various Steinways (never a Bosendorfer, Bechstein, nor any other world-class piano), and this instrument sounds wonderful. I think they did very well with the user interface as well.

 

I'm not sure what else to say. In summary, until you try it be careful about what you say...it just creates noise for a person like me when trying to figure out whether to buy something. I'm not saying you can't offer some thoughts, but keep the passionate debate to those that have really spent time reviewing a given product.

[Tomkeen]

Are you guys from Rolandclan?

[DNAUYTIC]

Pianoman1976, it isn't completely necessary to have the extra two speakers for the stage, IMO. The piano still sounds very good without them, but when you have them involved it brings the entire experience up a decent notch...in order to truly enjoy the experience as much as possible.

 

As for type of speaker, the only criteria they mention is "multichannel".

[kennychaffin]

Are you guys from Rolandclan?

 

 

Gotta wonder with 2 posts each......

[evildragon]

They most definitely are.

[DNAUYTIC]

Sorry, guys, though I can't speak for 21stschiz, I'm definitely not from Rolandclan...though I do remember coming across that site while researching whether I should buy the V-Piano or not. I don't give a hoot who makes what product as long as the product does what I want it to.

 

I'm just a guy that has been following the lifecycle of the V-Piano ever since I saw the video bits from NAMM back in January. Ever since I've been extremely interested in hearing more about the V-Piano, so I've been reading everything I could get my hands on (which hasn't been a heck of a lot due to it just being made available to the general public a short time ago).

 

I'm very happy I purchased it. Very happy. I just went up and played it for about five minutes and once again came away with, "Wow. Great purchase. This is fun."

 

Incidentally I run my V-Piano through two Dynaudio BM5A and two Dynaudio BM8A monitors. They sound flippingly fantastic.

[Tomkeen]

I played a nice old acoustic today. Can't remember what manufacturer, but I liked it very much. It was not perfectly tuned, but the keys were great and the sound had real character. I'd probably buy an old upright like that before I would get a V-piano. I wouldn't mind getting it tuned every now and then...

[21stschiz]

pssst

hey you

just so you know!

evildragon works for pianoteq

tomkeen works for kurzweil

and kennychaffin works for yamaha and boy are they really mad!!!

[Pianoman1976]

pssst hey you just so you know! evildragon works for pianoteq tomkeen works for kurzweil and kennychaffin works for yamaha and boy are they really mad!!!

 

 

Surely you jest?