Does Tookie deserve to die?

[desiderium]

 

Originally posted by ncook I dont think anyone could know for sure unless it happens. I'm pretty sure I could kill someone in a heart beat if they hurt my family, but its never happened so I dont know for sure. EDIT: I thought about it, I could.

 

 

That makes you no better than the killer.

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by Dr. T Put yourself in society's shoes: Do you want a couple of people's feelings hurt, or do you want to end the vicous cycle of gang violence and not alienate an entire race? Priorities, priorities.

Alienate an entire race?? Whitey didnt make him kill those people Doc and If he gets executed, its nobodys fault but his...

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by desiderium That makes you no better than the killer.

My Uncle was murdered in 1980, If I had the opportunity to kill the guy that did it, Id do it in a hearbeat and sleep soundly the same night

[ncook]

Originally posted by desiderium That makes you no better than the killer.

Your opinion.

[geckomecca]

Originally posted by Bob Tragic Thou shalt not kill.

 

 

What do you mean? That HE should not kill? or the judicial system should not kill....please explain.

[desiderium]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE My Uncle was murdered in 1980, If I had the opportunity to kill the guy that did it, Id do it in a hearbeat and sleep soundly the same night

 

 

and i had an older cousin murdered when i was growing up. they never found the guy who did it, but none of us, even her father George, would want him to die for what he did. but that's my family, not yours.

[moronmountain]

Originally posted by Ben J I think that mega-fro is enough to absolve him of any wrongdoing, no matter how deviant.

Heh the fro is the one thing I actually like about him.

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by desiderium and i had an older cousin murdered when i was growing up. they never found the guy who did it, but none of us, even her father George, would want him to die for what he did. but that's my family, not yours.

Doesnt make you any better for it either

[OverDriven]

Originally posted by Bob Tragic Thou shalt not kill.

 

 

Exactly. And if ya do then you're going to hell. So its obvious that we are doing God's work here by giving this {censored}er an express ticket to his final destination.

 

-Joe

[StringMachine]

If you commit 1st degree murder, there should be one appeal and then the chair!

I don't care what so called "good" Tookie has done or any other death row inmate. It's all bull{censored} anyway, the guy is the ultimate con - artist.

There is no re-habilitation for individuals like this. I had a teacher once who was a warden in the prision system. Anti-death penalty students asked him if he believed in the "electric-chair." He replied, "No, I don't believe in the electric chair. I believe in electric bleachers."

I couldn't have said it better if I tried...............

[desiderium]

Originally posted by STEEL KAGE Doesnt make you any better for it either

 

 

if we could have found the person who did it there is no doubt we would have wanted them in jail, but i personally feel that killing is wrong, and putting someone to death lowers you as a person.

 

again, not trying to argue with you, i'm just stating my position on the matter.

[geckomecca]

Hello:

Please think about this:

"X" kills "Y" and there are witnesses that testify to that.

"Y" is someone you or somebody loves and cherishes.

The sentence is death for "X".

The defense states its' strongest claim that "Thou shalt not Kill."

What should be done?

-gecko

[Stratotone]

From tookie's webpage...

The Apology
Twenty-five years ago when I created the Crips youth gang with Raymond Lee Washington in South Central Los Angeles, I never imagined Crips membership would one day spread throughout California, would spread to much of the rest of the nation and to cities in South Africa, where Crips copycat gangs have formed. I also didn't expect the Crips to end up ruining the lives of so many young people, especially young black men who have hurt other young black men.
Raymond was murdered in 1979. But if he were here, I believe he would be as troubled as I am by the Crips legacy.

So today I apologize to you all -- the children of America and South Africa -- who must cope every day with dangerous street gangs. I no longer participate in the so-called gangster lifestyle, and I deeply regret that I ever did.

As a contribution to the struggle to end child-on-child brutality and black-on-black brutality, I have written the Tookie Speaks Out Against Gang Violence children's book series. My goal is to reach as many young minds as possible to warn you about the perils of a gang lifestyle.

I am no longer "dys-educated" (disease educated). I am no longer part of the problem. Thanks to the Almighty, I am no longer sleepwalking through life.

I pray that one day my apology will be accepted. I also pray that your suffering, caused by gang violence, will soon come to an end as more gang members wake up and stop hurting themselves and others.

I vow to spend the rest of my life working toward solutions.

Amani (Peace),

Stanley "Tookie" Williams, Surviving Crips Co-Founder,
April 13, 1997


Notice how he doesn't apologize for the murders?

By the way, for the guy who posted that Tookie's childrens books got gangsters out of the lifestyle... are there really hardcore gansta folk who read CHILDREN'S BOOKS? They are written for grade schoolers!

Could you see Stabmaster Arson, neighborhood scourge going to the kiddy bookmobile or at a scholastic book fair waiting to lay his mitts on a {censored}in' children's book?

"Lessee, mother{censored}in' little train that could ain't in, Three bears is too old school... {censored} yeah! TOOKIE WROTE ANOTHER BOOK! I think I'll quit killin and {censored}. Plus there are pictures in the back I can color of tookie liftin weights!"

[STEEL KAGE]

Originally posted by desiderium if we could have found the person who did it there is no doubt we would have wanted them in jail, but i personally feel that killing is wrong, and putting someone to death lowers you as a person. again, not trying to argue with you, i'm just stating my position on the matter.

I agree, killing is wrong but what right did that guy have to take my uncles life? Why should he be allowed to live? Even if hes in Jail, HES STILL ALIVE and thats alot more than my uncle has...

 

I guarantee that If the Court system worked correctly and Those guilty of Capitol murder beyond ANY doubt were given one appeal and then executed right after, the murder rate would plummet and the Death Penalty would be the deterrent that it was meant to be

 

Kage

[ncook]

Originally posted by Stratotone Plus there are pictures in the back I can color of tookie liftin weights!"

LMAO!

[ThomasD]

Three of Tookie's victims were a family of asian shopkeepers. He didn't kill them because the robbery went bad, he was sending a message. Those people were killed specifically because they were asian and they ran a store in a black neighborhood.

Nobody is shedding any tears for those racists down in Texas who killed James Byrd just because he was black. Nobody should be crying for Tookie either.

[Stratotone]

Here's what cuddly lil' tookie did...

The 7-Eleven Robbery-Murder of Albert Owens
On February 28, 1979, Stanley Williams murdered Albert Lewis Owens during a robbery of a 7-Eleven convenience store in Whittier, California. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.

Late on the evening of February 27, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams introduced his friend Alfred Coward, a.k.a. "Blackie," to a man named Darryl. A short time later, Darryl, driving a brown station wagon, drove Williams to the residence of James Garrett. Coward followed in his 1969 Cadillac. (Trial Transcript (TT) 2095-2097). Stanley Williams often stayed at the Garrett residence and kept some of his belongings there, including his shotgun. (TT 1673, 1908).

At the Garrett residence, Williams went inside and returned carrying a twelve-gauge shotgun.

Darryl and Williams, with Coward following in his car, later drove to another residence, where they obtained a PCP-laced cigarette, which the three men shared.
Williams, Coward and Darryl then went to the residence of Tony Sims. (TT 2109). These four men then discussed where they could go in Pomona to make some money. (TT 2111). The four men then went to yet another residence where they smoked more PCP. (TT 2113-2116).

While at this location, Williams left the other men and returned with a .22 caliber handgun, which he also put in the station wagon. (TT 2117-2118). Williams then told Coward, Darryl and Sims they should go to Pomona. In response, Coward and Sims entered the Cadillac, Williams and Darryl entered the station wagon, and both cars traveled on the freeway toward Pomona. (TT 2118-2119).

The four men exited the freeway near Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). They drove to a Stop-N-Go market and, at Williams' direction, Darryl and Sims entered the store to commit a robbery. At the time, Darryl was armed with the .22 caliber handgun. (TT 2117-2218; Tony Sims' Parole Hearing Dated July 17, 1997).


Johnny Garcia Escapes Death
The clerk at the Stop-N-Go market, Johnny Garcia, had just finished mopping the floor when he observed a station wagon and four black men at the door to the market. (TT 2046-2048). Two of the men entered the market. (TT 2048). One of the men went down an aisle while the other approached Garcia.
The man that approached Garcia asked for a cigarette. Garcia gave the man a cigarette and lit it for him. After approximately three to four minutes, both men left the market without carrying out the planned robbery. (TT 2049-2050).


He Would Show Them How
Williams became upset that Darryl and Sims did not commit the robbery. Williams told the men that they would find another place to rob. Williams said that at the next location all of them would go inside and he would show them how to commit a robbery.
Coward and Sims then followed Williams and Darryl to the 7-Eleven market located at 10437 Whittier Boulevard. (TT 2186). The store clerk, twenty-six year old Albert Lewis Owens, was sweeping the store parking lot. (TT 2146).


Albert Owens Killed
When Darryl and Sims entered the 7-Eleven, Owens put the broom and dust pan down and followed them into the store. Williams and Coward followed Owens into the store. (TT 2146-2152). As Darryl and Sims walked to the counter area to take money from the register, Williams walked behind Owens and told him "shut up and keep walking." (TT 2154). While pointing a shotgun at Owens' back, Williams directed him to a back storage room. (TT 2154).
Once inside the storage room, Williams, at gunpoint, ordered Owens to "lay down, mother f*****." Williams then chambered a round into the shotgun. Williams then fired the round into the security monitor. Williams then chambered a second round and fired the round into Owens' back as he lay face down on the floor of the storage room. Williams then fired again into Owens' back. (TT 2162).


Near Contact Wound
Both of the shotgun wounds were fatal. (TT 2086). The pathologist who conducted the autopsy on Owens testified that the end of the barrel was "very close" to Owens' body when he was shot. One of the two wounds was described as ". . . a near contact wound." (TT 2078).
After Williams murdered Owens, he, Darryl, Coward and Sims fled in the two cars and returned home to Los Angeles. The robbery netted them approximately $120.00. (TT 2280).


'Killing All White People'
Once back in Los Angeles, Williams asked if anyone wanted to get something to eat. When Sims asked Williams why he shot Owens, Williams said he "didn't want to leave any witnesses." Williams also said he killed Owens "because he was white and he was killing all white people." (TT 2189, 2193).
Later that same day, Williams bragged to his brother Wayne about killing Owens. Williams said, "you should have heard the way he sounded when I shot him." Williams then made gurgling or growling noises and laughed hysterically about Owens' death. (TT 2195-2197).


The Brookhaven Robbery-Murders of the Yang Family
On March 11, 1979, Stanley 'Tookie' Williams murdered three members of the Yang family at their motel in Los Angeles. Here are the details of that crime from the The Los Angeles County District Attorney's response to Williams petition for executive clemency.
At approximately 5:00 a.m. on March 11, 1979, Stanley Williams entered the Brookhaven Motel at 10411 South Vermont Avenue. (Trial Ttranscript (TT) 1411). After entering the public lobby area, Williams broke down the door that led to the private office.

Once inside the private office, Williams, using his shotgun, killed seventy-six year old Yen-I Yang; Williams also killed Yang's wife, sixty-three year old Tsai-Shai Yang; lastly, Williams killed Yang's daughter, forty-three year old Yee-Chen Lin. Williams then removed the currency from the cash register and fled the location.

Robert Yang was asleep with his wife in their bedroom at the Brookhaven Motel when he was awakened by the sound of somebody breaking down the door to the motel's office. This sound was immediately followed by the sound of his mother or sister screaming, followed by gun shots. (TT 1409, 1411, 1433).


Son Finds Family Shot
When Robert entered the motel office he found his mother, his sister, and his father had all been shot. (TT 1412-1413). Robert observed that the cash register was open and money was missing. (TT 1414). It was later determined that the robbery of the Brookhaven Motel and the murder of the three members of the Yang family netted Stanley Williams approximately $100.
Robert Yang called 9-1-1. Two deputies from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department arrived within approximately ten minutes. (TT 1416). When the deputies entered the motel they noticed a strong odor of gun powder. (TT 1500). The deputies observed that the door leading from the public entrance into Yang's private living quarters had been forced open and the doorjamb was split open and the woodwork was torn away from the doorjamb. (TT 1508).


Gasping For Air
As they entered, they saw Yen-I Yang lying on a sofa. He was "soaked with blood," "gasping for air, and making gurgling noises." (TT 1501). They also saw the bloodied body of Tsai-Shai Yang. She was making "gurgling noises" and "gasping for air," with "her knees drawn up under her, and her face down on the floor," as if she had been forced to bow down before being killed. (TT 1502). Lastly, the deputies found the body of Yee-Chen Lin lying on the hallway floor.
According to the forensic pathologist, Yen-I Yang suffered two shotgun wounds. One shotgun wound was to his left arm and abdomen. This wound shredded Yen-I's left arm, fractured his ribs, and shattered his spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels. The other shotgun wound was to the lower left chest. This wound also fractured ribs and shattered the spleen, right kidney, bowel and large vessels.


Evidence Found at Scene
Moreover, a plastic shotgun shot container and associated wadding were recovered from the base of Yen-I's liver. The pathologist further explained that both of the Yen-I Yang's wounds were inflicted when the end of the muzzle was only feet from Yen-I's body. Despite the severity of these wounds, Yen-I clung to life. He was transported from the scene by paramedics to Daniel Freeman Hospital where he died at 6:53 a.m.
Yee-Chen Lin was shot once in the upper left face area at a distance of a few feet. Despite the truly horrific nature of the wound Stanley Williams inflicted upon her, Yee-Chen also clung to life. She was transported from the scene by paramedics to Centinela Hospital where she died at 7:36 a.m.


Shot at Close Range
Tsai-Shai was shot twice at close range. The pathologist explained that one shotgun wound was to the coccyx or tail bone. Based on the physical characteristics of the wound and the fact that wadding, along with the plastic shot container, were recovered just beneath the skin of this wound, the muzzle of the gun must have been just inches from her body when she was shot and killed. (TT 1453).
The other shotgun wound was to the anterior abdomen with the charge entering at the naval. At trial, the pathologist testified that the muzzle of the gun was a few feet from Tsai-Shai's body when the shot that caused this wound was fired. (TT 1454).

[Stratotone]

Originally posted by ThomasD Three of Tookie's victims were a family of asian shopkeepers. He didn't kill them because the robbery went bad, he was sending a message. Those people were killed specifically because they were asian and they ran a store in a black neighborhood. Nobody is shedding any tears for those racists down in Texas who killed James Byrd just because he was black. Nobody should be crying for Tookie either.

 

 

Ya think the Asians are going to riot if he's not executed?

[ncook]

He's trash. He doesn't deserve lethal injection, he needs to be shot the same way he did his killings. Let him lay and gurgle for a while.

[OverDriven]

Originally posted by Stratotone Here's what cuddly lil' tookie did...

 

 

Hey Dr. T...read that {censored}. Just read that and tell me he doesn't deserve to die. Man death is not even enough for that guy. If someone did that to my family, I would make the electric chair look like a walk in the park if I got my hands on them.

 

-Joe

[geckomecca]

hello!?!

[Kung-Fool]

If this piece of {censored} was truly anti-gang and wanted to do some good he would take his sentence like a man and would admit he deserves to die for his crimes. He would make a statement saying "this is what gang life will get you, don't be like me." His victims didn't get a second chance, why should he?

[17 Tubes]

Originally posted by Paul J. Edwards Yes they will! You just don't get what they are all about. Seperation of church and state is a good thing.

 

 

Ah...another of the masses that have twisted the intent,

 

 

"separation of church and state" does not mean God shouldn't exist...even in public office.

 

If you odn't believe the exact wording, the INTENT of the amendment is to keep the state from enfocing a church upon the citizens.

 

Just mentioning "jesus" or "god" is HARDLY "force".

 

 

Bunch of weenies.

[scottosan]

Originally posted by Dr. T He's more use to society alive then dead. He has a huge amount of influence inside his cell, an influence that he has used for good in recent years. Because of him many have quit their gangs or not joined them all together... Also, if he is executed, I guarantee you there will be a black retaliation. Can you say "Rodney King times a million"?

Law is not meant to be selective. I'd change my ways too, if I had death staring me in the face. The bottom line is that as long as people aren't held accountable for their actions crime will continue to increase in this country. Why is it that a prisoner has more living space than most solders, yet prisons are considered overcrowded?

[Bob Savage]

Yes, he "deserves" to die.