Can somebody talk to me about JCM800 vs. Plexi...

[atbear]

I really appreciate all the help, guys! I'm still trying to decide between the Super Lead and JCM800, but I now know that either would be killer for me.

 

What do y'all think about the Plexi clone kits? For example, the Metropolous kits? I'm thinking about getting one of those and building it myself... only think I'm worried about is the lack of an effects loop. I usually put my reverb in there.

 

Is there a such thing as a hand wired or PTP JCM800?

 

Thanks,

Drew

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Originally posted by atbear I really appreciate all the help, guys! I'm still trying to decide between the Super Lead and JCM800, but I now know that either would be killer for me. What do y'all think about the Plexi clone kits? For example, the Metropolous kits? I'm thinking about getting one of those and building it myself... only think I'm worried about is the lack of an effects loop. I usually put my reverb in there. Is there a such thing as a hand wired or PTP JCM800? Thanks, Drew

 

 

If you don't want to screw around with a hotplate and a boost pedal, I would get the JCM800. the early horizonal input amps are the one to get if you can find one.

 

Any hand wired amp is going to cost you $$$ unless you can do it yourself. I built a Metro PTP board for my SL reissue and it was well worth the effort. It is not hard if you can read instructions and solder well. (The factory PCB sound terrible in those amps unless you do a few simple mods to cut the brightness and gain some more headroom).

[Brain Becker]

Originally posted by Dr. Tweedbucket If you don't want to screw around with a hotplate and a boost pedal, I would get the JCM800. the early horizonal input amps are the one to get if you can find one. Any hand wired amp is going to cost you $$$ unless you can do it yourself. I built a Metro PTP board for my SL reissue and it was well worth the effort. It is not hard if you can read instructions and solder well. (The factory PCB sound terrible in those amps unless you do a few simple mods to cut the brightness and gain some more headroom).

Tweed, I think it's the vertical input model that he wants.

[MRscratch]

vertical. why??? because the horizontal ones are pc mounted input jacks and pot. the early ones sound a little different as well.

i dont know if the re issues are pc mounted and hard wired to the pots or if they are full on pc board. anyway.

i have a 74 super lead and a 82 800. i must saythat the super is a cleaner amp.BUT it also has a better tighter low end that the 800 and a faster attack.

if i had to choose between the two re issues, i would take the 69 hand wired . if they were originals, same.

[rog951]

The vertically-alligned input amps are the more "desireable" of the 100W JCM800s. The reason people don't like the horizontal 2203s as much is not due to the pcb mounted input jacks themselves, but that this change coincided with a reduction in the number of filter capacitors used in the power supply circuit. This supposedly affected the amp's tone negatively.

 

Oh, and for the 50W version they left the power supply alone when they implimented the input jack orientation change, so the vertical and horizontal 2204s shouldn't sound noticeably different.

[MRscratch]

 

Originally posted by rog951 The vertically-alligned input amps are the more "desireable" of the 100W JCM800s. The reason people don't like the horizontal 2203s as much is not due to the pcb mounted input jacks themselves, but that this change coincided with a reduction in the number of filter capacitors used in the power supply circuit. This supposedly affected the amp's tone negatively. Oh, and for the 50W version they left the power supply alone when they implimented the input jack orientation change, so the vertical and horizontal 2204s shouldn't sound noticeably different.

 

do you know what they did , exactly as far as the filter caps??? did they use different ones or just a different amount??

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by MRscratch do you know what they did , exactly as far as the filter caps??? did they use different ones or just a different amount??

 

They went from 5 to 3.

[MRscratch]

and was this to get a different tone , or just trying to economize on parts or whatever??

because they pretty much sound close but i thought i heard that the older ones had a different kind of gain as well . is this right?? id they introduce diode clipping in the later ones???

[riffy]

 

Originally posted by atbear I really appreciate all the help, guys! I'm still trying to decide between the Super Lead and JCM800, but I now know that either would be killer for me. What do y'all think about the Plexi clone kits? For example, the Metropolous kits? I'm thinking about getting one of those and building it myself... only think I'm worried about is the lack of an effects loop. I usually put my reverb in there. Is there a such thing as a hand wired or PTP JCM800? Thanks, Drew

 

 

 

Drew,

I was going to stay out of this thread but I just can't. I have to be honest with you. I really don't think that either a Super Lead or a 2203 are the amps for you. Neither is the 1987 model... The reason I say that is these amps are LOUD . And I mean truly just make you sick to your stomach after a while loud. The are not living room volume amps. Not if you want to do what you want with them...

 

Yes, you can hotplate the amp down, but it does mess with the sound. To my ears, anything below -8 just really screws with the sound. Yeah, you can install a post-phase inverter master volume like the Rich Mod. That helps. You can run the Hot Plate on -8, that helps. You can hit it with a boost and that helps as well.

But, when all is said and done, these amps, all of them are meant to be opened up and played LOUD to get the best out of them.

 

When I record the 2203 amps. I usually run the preamps wide open and the master at 7 or better. That is get you killed by your spouse and kids volume. That is call the police volume. That is killing small rodents volume. The same goes for the Super Lead 1959 models... Just LOUD amps man... And they don't give up the sonic goodies early at all.

 

The 1987 50 watt version of these amps isn't as loud no. BUT what it misses by isn't much. I find that it does break up a bit earlier and is rounder and more compressed sounding. Making

it a bit better for leads in my opinion. But, using it, I find that for me that BIG, OPEN Marshall rhythm crunch is compromised as well. The amp isn't as tight and crunchy in the low end.

 

I am not trying to tell you not to get one. I am just trying to save

you from a HUGE surprise when you do get one... These amps are beasts. Analogy here, I hope it applies. Today's amps are dogs, they are more refined in in their behavior towards people. They don't bite as readily, they are just more people friendly. They have been domesticated. The amps from the late 60s and up to the early 80's from Marshall, are beasts. They are like wolves, feral, not fit to be in polite human company. They bite and they roar. Simply a completely different breed from their modern brethren.

 

Just a bit of food for thought for you.

 

 

Gary

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by riffy Drew, I was going to stay out of this thread but I just can't. I have to be honest with you. I really don't think that either a Super Lead or a 2203 are the amps for you. Neither is the 1987 model... The reason I say that is these amps are LOUD . And I mean truly just make you sick to your stomach after a while loud. The are not living room volume amps. Not if you want to do what you want with them... Yes, you can hotplate the amp down, but it does mess with the sound. To my ears, anything below -8 just really screws with the sound. Yeah, you can install a post-phase inverter master volume like the Rich Mod. That helps. You can run the Hot Plate on -8, that helps. You can hit it with a boost and that helps as well. But, when all is said and done, these amps, all of them are meant to be opened up and played LOUD to get the best out of them. When I record the 2203 amps. I usually run the preamps wide open and the master at 7 or better. That is get you killed by your spouse and kids volume. That is call the police volume. That is killing small rodents volume. The same goes for the Super Lead 1957 models... Just LOUD amps man... And they don't give up the sonic goodies early at all. The 1987 50 watt version of these amps isn't as loud no. BUT what it misses by isn't much. I find that it does break up a bit earlier and is rounder and more compressed sounding. Making it a bit better for leads in my opinion. But, using it, I find that for me that BIG, OPEN Marshall rhythm crunch is compromised as well. The amp isn't as tight and crunchy in the low end. I am not trying to tell you not to get one. I am just trying to save you from a HUGE surprise when you do get one... These amps are beasts. Analogy here, I hope it applies. Today's amps are dogs, they are more refined in in their behavior towards people. They don't bite as readily, they are just more people friendly. They have been domesticated. The amps from the late 60s and up to the early 80's from Marshall, are beasts. They are like wolves, feral, not fit to be in polite human company. They bite and they roar. Simply a completely different breed from their modern brethren. Just a bit of food for thought for you. Gary

 

Thanks, and I appreciate you looking out for me! I have a 100W Carvin V3 right now, and I've had a couple non-MV Carvin Legacys in the recent past. Those are LOUD amps. I won't say they are as loud as a JCM 800, but I'm sure they are close. So, while I take what you say about the Marshalls not giving up the good early... I just gotta try it out for myself. If all else fails, I'll just have to resell the Marshall, and hopefully not lose any money. That is one good thing about the Marshall name.

 

If I do like the sound and think it'll be managable, I will get a HotPlate to run with it... I figure with the MV set to 3 and the HotPlate set to 8 or 12, I should be good... (Preamp on 6.5, boost in front). Thoughts?

[MRscratch]

?????????? what the {censored}????

dont ley everyone freak you out man. they arent that bad. its just a marshal. they sound great. i play mine around 7-8 oclock master, and around 2oclock preamp.

it aint that bad. mind you if you are playing in a appartement it may be anoying not being able to crank it, but who cares. you DONT need a atenuator,you DONT need to boost it, al that is just add ons. sure they can peel the paint off the wall, but thats half the fun. deppends on what you want to do with it. they are great live obviously, but i use mine a lot, and its never that loud , it still sounds great. really

[Tatosh]

Originally posted by atbear I really appreciate all the help, guys! I'm still trying to decide between the Super Lead and JCM800, but I now know that either would be killer for me. What do y'all think about the Plexi clone kits? For example, the Metropolous kits? I'm thinking about getting one of those and building it myself... only think I'm worried about is the lack of an effects loop. I usually put my reverb in there. Is there a such thing as a hand wired or PTP JCM800? Thanks, Drew

 

The plexi clone kits are excelent, as Tweed said. If you can solder (a big deal, trust me on that), can follow instructions and have pacience, you will end with an amp that will be way better than anything you buy with the same amount of cash. Unless you go the boutique route, of course. But those will be twice as expensive.

 

I have the instructions for the metro kits and have studied the diagrams extensively. They are perhaps the best way of learning about what makes Marshalls what they are. Plus, the standard superlead kit is around a grand. A very good deal, IMHO.

 

And BTW, even if Metro doesn't exactly offer a 2203 kit (JCM 800) they have the instructions for building a PTP one. Lot's of people have done it ordering the superlead kit and changing the parts (which you can also get on the metro website) and following the instructions. As I have said, the differences are pretty much only on the preamp.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by MRscratch ?????????? what the {censored}???? dont ley everyone freak you out man. they arent that bad. its just a marshal. they sound great. i play mine around 7-8 oclock master, and around 2oclock preamp. it aint that bad. mind you if you are playing in a appartement it may be anoying not being able to crank it, but who cares. you DONT need a atenuator,you DONT need to boost it, al that is just add ons. sure they can peel the paint off the wall, but thats half the fun. deppends on what you want to do with it. they are great live obviously, but i use mine a lot, and its never that loud , it still sounds great. really

 

Yeah, I know... I mean, I've had plenty 100 watters... a couple Legacys, a V3, a JSX... and my Fender Hot Rod is loud as hell too (though it doesn't push as much air). If I did stick with the Marshall, I'd likely get the attenuator, since I'd use the power tubes more than any of my other amps. Thanks, man...

[Tatosh]

Originally posted by riffy Drew, I was going to stay out of this thread but I just can't. I have to be honest with you. I really don't think that either a Super Lead or a 2203 are the amps for you. Neither is the 1987 model... The reason I say that is these amps are LOUD . And I mean truly just make you sick to your stomach after a while loud. The are not living room volume amps. Not if you want to do what you want with them... Yes, you can hotplate the amp down, but it does mess with the sound. To my ears, anything below -8 just really screws with the sound. Yeah, you can install a post-phase inverter master volume like the Rich Mod. That helps. You can run the Hot Plate on -8, that helps. You can hit it with a boost and that helps as well. But, when all is said and done, these amps, all of them are meant to be opened up and played LOUD to get the best out of them. When I record the 2203 amps. I usually run the preamps wide open and the master at 7 or better. That is get you killed by your spouse and kids volume. That is call the police volume. That is killing small rodents volume. The same goes for the Super Lead 1957 models... Just LOUD amps man... And they don't give up the sonic goodies early at all. The 1987 50 watt version of these amps isn't as loud no. BUT what it misses by isn't much. I find that it does break up a bit earlier and is rounder and more compressed sounding. Making it a bit better for leads in my opinion. But, using it, I find that for me that BIG, OPEN Marshall rhythm crunch is compromised as well. The amp isn't as tight and crunchy in the low end. I am not trying to tell you not to get one. I am just trying to save you from a HUGE surprise when you do get one... These amps are beasts. Analogy here, I hope it applies. Today's amps are dogs, they are more refined in in their behavior towards people. They don't bite as readily, they are just more people friendly. They have been domesticated. The amps from the late 60s and up to the early 80's from Marshall, are beasts. They are like wolves, feral, not fit to be in polite human company. They bite and they roar. Simply a completely different breed from their modern brethren. Just a bit of food for thought for you. Gary

 

This is pretty good advice. I have played JCM 900s and JCM 2000s (TSL 100) Granted, these are loud, too. But comparing those to say, a late 60s Superlead is just not fair. A good superlead (well biased, good tubes, right speakers) should be almost impossible to control. These amps will make your stomach sick, trust me.

 

The guy who sold me my Superbass has permanent hearing loss. When I cranked it to test it he literally went running out of the room.

[Tatosh]

Originally posted by MRscratch ?????????? what the fuck???? dont ley everyone freak you out man. they arent that bad. its just a marshal. they sound great. i play mine around 7-8 oclock master, and around 2oclock preamp. it aint that bad. mind you if you are playing in a appartement it may be anoying not being able to crank it, but who cares. you DONT need a atenuator,you DONT need to boost it, al that is just add ons. sure they can peel the paint off the wall, but thats half the fun. deppends on what you want to do with it. they are great live obviously, but i use mine a lot, and its never that loud , it still sounds great. really

 

How is your hearing????

 

If you are not having problems and are running that thing as you describe, you are a god among men!!!

[atbear]

Originally posted by Tatosh This is pretty good advice. I have played JCM 900s and JCM 2000s (TSL 100) Granted, these are loud, too. But comparing those to say, a late 60s Superlead is just not fair. A good superlead (well biased, good tubes, right speakers) should be almost impossible to control. These amps will make your stomach sick, trust me. The guy who sold me my Superbass has permanent hearing loss. When I cranked it to test it he literally went running out of the room.

Hahaha!

 

"Yeah, looks nice! Let me turn it up to make sure everything's how it should be..."

 

....3...5.....7.........9!...

 

"AHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh!!!!!! (Running out of the room waving arms...)"

[atbear]

I can get a Marshall 1959HW reissue for $1700... good deal?

 

It's a little out of my range, but if it a good deal, I could pick it up, try it, then sell it for a profit, perhaps... Thoughts?

[Tatosh]

Originally posted by atbear Hahaha! "Yeah, looks nice! Let me turn it up to make sure everything's how it should be..." ....3...5.....7.........9!... "AHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh!!!!!! (Running out of the room waving arms...)"

 

That's pretty much how it was. Except that he had his hands covering his ears (which he kept there even outside of the room. He was literally scared shitless of his amp.) I took him put of his misery and bought the amp right then and there!!!

[rog951]

Originally posted by Tatosh How is your hearing???? If you are not having problems and are running that thing as you describe, you are a god among men!!!

 

Yeah, master on 7 or 8 is LOUD on an 800! I have a 50 watter and I regularly play at around 4-5 on the master and it's plenty loud. To me, it starts sounding really good around 4 on the master, but then then the real magic starts happening up around 7. I just can't get away with the magic regularly in my house! For overall volume, I think a lot depends on your speakers/output tubes as well. We might not all be comparing apples to apples here...

[atbear]

Originally posted by rog951 Yeah, master on 7 or 8 is LOUD on an 800! I have a 50 watter and I regularly play at around 4-5 on the master and it's plenty loud. To me, it starts sounding really good around 4 on the master, but then then the real magic starts happening up around 7. I just can't get away with the magic regularly in my house! For overall volume, I think a lot depends on your speakers/output tubes as well. We might not all be comparing apples to apples here...

What speakers and output tubes are you using then?

[Tatosh]

 

Originally posted by atbear I can get a Marshall 1959HW reissue for $1700... good deal? It's a little out of my range, but if it a good deal, I could pick it up, try it, then sell it for a profit, perhaps... Thoughts?

 

 

Are you sure it is a HW????? those should be at least twice as expensive. It might be a 1959SLP (the price fits), in which case it is a PCB reissue. You can get those for way less on ebay. But people are modding those with metro boards anyway.

 

If it truly is a 1959HW (double check for that) it is a hell of deal. Some people are almost paying $4000 for those. Also, if it truly is a HW, check if it is working properly and if it still has it's warranty and all that jazz. You don't want to be screwed out of your money...

[vlad]

 

Originally posted by MRscratch ?????????? what the {censored}???? dont ley everyone freak you out man. they arent that bad. its just a marshal. they sound great. i play mine around 7-8 oclock master, and around 2oclock preamp. it aint that bad. mind you if you are playing in a appartement it may be anoying not being able to crank it, but who cares. you DONT need a atenuator,you DONT need to boost it, al that is just add ons. sure they can peel the paint off the wall, but thats half the fun. deppends on what you want to do with it. they are great live obviously, but i use mine a lot, and its never that loud , it still sounds great. really

 

 

They're very loud.

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by Tatosh Are you sure it is a HW????? those should be at least twice as expensive. It might be a 1959SLP (the price fits), in which case it is a PCB reissue. You can get those for way less on ebay. But people are modding those with metro boards anyway. If it truly is a 1959HW (double check for that) it is a hell of deal. Some people are almost paying $4000 for those. Also, if it truly is a HW, check if it is working properly and if it still has it's warranty and all that jazz. You don't want to be screwed out of your money...

 

Check it out: New Marshall 1959HW Reissue

 

It hasn't gone up in price for about 3 days. Surely it will at the end of this auction, but I doubt all that much... maybe so.

 

If anybody sees this and wants to bid, feel free... even though it's a great deal, it's out of my price range. I might bid $1600 just to check it out and re-sell it... but that'd put me out of too much $$$ for my own good, so somebody please outbid me!

[rog951]

Originally posted by atbear What speakers and output tubes are you using then?

 

Well, my 800 is new to me, only had it a few weeks. It came with 6550s and I'm trying to decide if I like it with them, or if I should convert it to use EL34s. My understanding is that the EL34s will break up a little earlier, but won't have quite the low-end definition that the 6550s have. I don't really need/want a tight low end from this amp as I have others for that, so I'm kinda torn. I definitely like it as-is, but I wonder if I might not like it better with EL34s. I think it's an easy conversion so I could probably just try it and then put it back if I don't like it.

 

Oh, I'm running the amp through a 4x12 cab with reissue greenbacks...seems like the right thing to do

[atbear]

 

Originally posted by atbear Check it out: New Marshall 1959HW Reissue It hasn't gone up in price for about 3 days. Surely it will at the end of this auction, but I doubt all that much... maybe so. If anybody sees this and wants to bid, feel free... even though it's a great deal, it's out of my price range. I might bid $1600 just to check it out and re-sell it... but that'd put me out of too much $$$ for my own good, so somebody please outbid me!

 

Also, about this amp... it says shipping is $150 (amp is from England). After paying the $150... will I still have to pay duty and customs fees after the amp is shipped, or will that be included in the $150? Anybody know?