Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 For example... Would a Plexi with a pedal be similar to a JCM800 gain wise (at lower volumes)? From what I can hear, it seems that Plexis are smoother and chewier, and JCM800s can be throatier and grittier. I tend to really love both in recordings. Would they both be equally easy/hard to get along with at home? I ask because it would seem that a Super Lead plus a pedal could get to a JCM800 tone, while a JCM800 wouldn't be able to get all the way back down to a Plexi tone... is that true? I know the JCM800 has a master volume, and the Super Lead doesn't... but I'd surely get a HotPlate for either. Basically, can somebody run down a compare/contrast pro/con of each in relation to each other? I can't get enough of that Plexi chewiness... that super open and vintage sound. I also love that throaty, ballsy, gritty JCM800 tone... Right now I prefer Plexis, but I'm thinking that a Plexi plus a pedal could get me to the amount of gain of a JCM800 at lower volumes... thoughts? Thanks for any help.Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 A Super Lead plus a pedal goes way past a 2203 gain-wise. The 2203 has more gain than a stock Super Lead, but not much more. The 2203 is tighter than most Super Leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Oh yeah... both of those amps are stupid loud... Even though a JCM800 2203 has a master volume, at bedroom volumes, it's very very fizzy. It's not until you get past 1.5 does it start sounding like itself. You'll basically need at least a hotplate with either of those amps if you want to use it at home. For the Super Lead, I'd get a hotplate and get a Rich Mod installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad A Super Lead plus a pedal goes way past a 2203 gain-wise. The 2203 has more gain than a stock Super Lead, but not much more. The 2203 is tighter than most Super Leads. I'm glad you responded, because your Super Lead sounds Bad Ass! Something I learned recently is that a 2203 is a type of Super Lead... so that actually got me back into looking into 2203s after pretty much being set on a Plexi. I just can't get enough of that Super Lead chewiness. What would sound closer? A Plexi trying to sound like a JCM800, or a JCM800 trying to sound like a Plexi? I'd think the first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear I'm glad you responded, because your Super Lead sounds Bad Ass! Something I learned recently is that a 2203 is a type of Super Lead... so that actually got me back into looking into 2203s after pretty much being set on a Plexi. I just can't get enough of that Super Lead chewiness. What would sound closer? A Plexi trying to sound like a JCM800, or a JCM800 trying to sound like a Plexi? I'd think the first... Feel free to PM me... If I'm not mistaken, they're not all that different circuit-wise. I believe the 2203 has more/different filtering. That affects the tightness/aggressiveness of the amp. I think you can get either amp to sound close to one-another. I had a friends 2203 for a couple months and I got to spend some time with that amp. It's more aggressive and evil when pushed with an OD pedal. My SL is warmer and more 'classic rock' sounding. They both have great dynamics. They're loud as hell and do 80's metal very very well. If you want more plug-and-play, the 2203 is easier to deal with. If you want to tweak a bit more (possibly with a soldering iron) then the SL is awesome. My SL wasn't easy to tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Thanks, man... I would have PM'd you, but I didn't want to fill any PM boxes... you know how that goes! You say your SL wasn't easy to tame... what do you mean by that? What mods have you done to yours? If I were to get either, unless I found a killer deal on a clean vintage one, I'd just go ahead and get a new reissue, or a mint used reissue. That way I wouldn't feel bad about modding it, if it came to that. Oh, and I'd be sure to get a GB loaded cab if I got the SL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear Thanks, man... I would have PM'd you, but I didn't want to fill any PM boxes... you know how that goes! You say your SL wasn't easy to tame... what do you mean by that? What mods have you done to yours? If I were to get either, unless I found a killer deal on a clean vintage one, I'd just go ahead and get a new reissue, or a mint used reissue. That way I wouldn't feel bad about modding it, if it came to that. Oh, and I'd be sure to get a GB loaded cab if I got the SL! I hear ya... Feel free to PM me anytime if you have questions. I underestimated how loud this amp really was and how clean it stays... It starts to distort around 4 and really gets crunchy at 7-8. At 10, it's got ALOT of gain for a Super Lead. So much that when turned up loud, I barely need an OD pedal. I only use my OD for a boost. As for mods, I really didn't mod anything aside from the Rich mod. I did restore a small part of the preamp circuit to '68 plexi specs. My SL modded to Super Bass specs, then modded back to Super Lead. In the process, they used values that were 'close enough'. They also used orange drops, which I replaced with Sozos. The only other thing I did was move the Presence control wire from the 4 ohm tap on the impedence selector to the 16 ohm tap. This makes the amp tighter and clearer... possibly a bit cleaner as well, but I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of gain for a more defined sound. According to everything I've read, the Presence wire is supposed to be on the 8ohm tap from the factory. I liked it on the 16 ohm tap, so I left it there. Oh yeah, I had all the filter caps replaced because they were the original mustard caps from 1971. That's it... Rich Mod, Hotplate and GB's. Together they make the amp amazing. I think all 3 of those are crucial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad I hear ya... Feel free to PM me anytime if you have questions. I underestimated how loud this amp really was and how clean it stays... It starts to distort around 4 and really gets crunchy at 7-8. At 10, it's got ALOT of gain for a Super Lead. So much that when turned up loud, I barely need an OD pedal. I only use my OD for a boost. As for mods, I really didn't mod anything aside from the Rich mod. I did restore a small part of the preamp circuit to '68 plexi specs. My SL modded to Super Bass specs, then modded back to Super Lead. In the process, they used values that were 'close enough'. They also used orange drops, which I replaced with Sozos. The only other thing I did was move the Presence control wire from the 4 ohm tap on the impedence selector to the 16 ohm tap. This makes the amp tighter and clearer... possibly a bit cleaner as well, but I'm willing to sacrifice a bit of gain for a more defined sound. According to everything I've read, the Presence wire is supposed to be on the 8ohm tap from the factory. I liked it on the 16 ohm tap, so I left it there. Oh yeah, I had all the filter caps replaced because they were the original mustard caps from 1971. That's it... Rich Mod, Hotplate and GB's. Together they make the amp amazing. I think all 3 of those are crucial. Sounds sweet! So, it doesn't start crunching 'til 4?! That has to be incredibly loud... How loud do you normally record your clips at? I know you use the HotPlate and all, but that's still gotta be incredibly loud! Did you decide against a PPIMV? Is it possibly to play yours at living room levels and get any crunch out of it (without a pedal)? Rethinking it... if I can't play it at living room volume at all, then it might not be the amp for me... maybe the JCM800 is what I'd want, if it can sound similar, and it has a MV control. Thoughts? What exactly did the Rich mod do? Thanks for the help, man! Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratter Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 If you haven't already, check out an 18 or 20 watt Marshall. Yeah, they don't have all the tone of the 100-watters, but they have that flavor at a much more reasonable volume. And some people actually prefer the tone to the 50 and 100w's. I don't have a master volume on my marshall, but I have a hotplate. But even with the hotplate, I rarely play at anything lower than like a band rehearsal level, even at home. They're just stupid loud amps, no two ways about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear Sounds sweet! So, it doesn't start crunching 'til 4?! That has to be incredibly loud... How loud do you normally record your clips at? I know you use the HotPlate and all, but that's still gotta be incredibly loud! Did you decide against a PPIMV? Is it possibly to play yours at living room levels and get any crunch out of it (without a pedal)? Rethinking it... if I can't play it at living room volume at all, then it might not be the amp for me... maybe the JCM800 is what I'd want, if it can sound similar, and it has a MV control. Thoughts? What exactly did the Rich mod do? Thanks for the help, man! Drew Yeah... When I say it's loud... IT'S FUCKING LOUD!!! My clips are generally recorded at very low volumes. Alot of the times it's kinda late and the kids are in bed and I hear no complaints. I use a PPIMV (Rich Mod) + Hotplate + GB's. With those 3 things you'll be fine. TV volume tone. Most of my clips are recorded at that volume level. It's not often that I crank that amp.. Bear in mind, without a hotplate, you'll have a hard time with the 2203 as well. While you can get distortion from it at low volumes, the distortion sucks until the vol gets past around 1.5 or so... AND THAT'S STUPID LOUD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by ratter ... I don't have a master volume on my marshall, but I have a hotplate. But even with the hotplate, I rarely play at anything lower than like a band rehearsal level, even at home. They're just stupid loud amps, no two ways about it. Yeah.. even at -16db's it's quite loud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members psychodave Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad Feel free to PM me... If I'm not mistaken, they're not all that different circuit-wise. I believe the 2203 has more/different filtering. That affects the tightness/aggressiveness of the amp. I think you can get either amp to sound close to one-another. I had a friends 2203 for a couple months and I got to spend some time with that amp. It's more aggressive and evil when pushed with an OD pedal. My SL is warmer and more 'classic rock' sounding. They both have great dynamics. They're loud as hell and do 80's metal very very well. If you want more plug-and-play, the 2203 is easier to deal with. If you want to tweak a bit more (possibly with a soldering iron) then the SL is awesome. My SL wasn't easy to tame. The 2203 has an extra gain stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ratter Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad Yeah.. even at -16db's it's quite loud... Yep, and -16 starts to sound poopy. I don't go any lower than -12 anymore. Well, I say that like I play all the time. I haven't touched a guitar in 3 weeks. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad Yeah... When I say it's loud... IT'S FUCKING LOUD!!! My clips are generally recorded at very low volumes. Alot of the times it's kinda late and the kids are in bed and I hear no complaints. I use a PPIMV (Rich Mod) + Hotplate + GB's. With those 3 things you'll be fine. TV volume tone. Most of my clips are recorded at that volume level. It's not often that I crank that amp.. Bear in mind, without a hotplate, you'll have a hard time with the 2203 as well. While you can get distortion from it at low volumes, the distortion sucks until the vol gets past around 1.5 or so... AND THAT'S STUPID LOUD! So, your clips are at TV volumes?! Well, that puts me right back in Super Lead land... A PPIMV is a Rich mod, huh? Never made the connection before. That's cool. How do you normally set your controls on those... CV on 10 and MV low? BTW, did I mention that your clips rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by psychodave The 2203 has an extra gain stage. Right... The 2203 has 3 and the SL has 2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by ratter Yep, and -16 starts to sound poopy. I don't go any lower than -12 anymore. Well, I say that like I play all the time. I haven't touched a guitar in 3 weeks. :mad: Yeah... weird things happen at -16db's. Like the phasing and weird artifacts... I haven't really played in a couple weeks myself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear So, your clips are at TV volumes?! Well, that puts me right back in Super Lead land... A PPIMV is a Rich mod, huh? Never made the connection before. That's cool. How do you normally set your controls on those... CV on 10 and MV low? BTW, did I mention that your clips rule? Thanks dude... Yup... I'd say 95% of them. Sure it sounds better cranked to 'holy crap!' but it sounds damn good at TV volumes. Yeah. The Rich mod is great. I did alter the Rich mod a bit to have pretty much out of the circuit when it's turned up. I can tell you what I did if you're at that point. Currently my amp is set at: Presence 6 Bass 4 Middle 6 Treble 4-5 Vol I 7-8 cable into the Vol I high input (top left) no channel jumping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad Thanks dude... Yup... I'd say 95% of them. Sure it sounds better cranked to 'holy crap!' but it sounds damn good at TV volumes. Yeah. The Rich mod is great. I did alter the Rich mod a bit to have pretty much out of the circuit when it's turned up. I can tell you what I did if you're at that point. Currently my amp is set at: Presence 6 Bass 4 Middle 6 Treble 4-5 Vol I 7-8 cable into the Vol I high input (top left) no channel jumping. Sweet. How often do you boost with a pedal? How accurate are your clips to what you're hearing the room? Does it sound like your clips, or better or worse? I guess what I mean is, did you do any post production EQing or touch ups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members atbear Posted July 7, 2006 Author Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Can anybody describe the difference between the 100W 1959 SL and the 50W 1987 SL? Are they exactly the same except for the wattage? How is the tone different, if at all? Is it just a headroom difference, or does the tone change? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SimonMagus Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by vlad Right... The 2203 has 3 and the SL has 2... Jumpering the channels on a Plexi, doesn't that have a similar effect to the cascaded gain stage on the 2203? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Duesentrieb Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by SimonMagus Jumpering the channels on a Plexi, doesn't that have a similar effect to the cascaded gain stage on the 2203? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rich Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear Can anybody describe the difference between the 100W 1959 SL and the 50W 1987 SL? Are they exactly the same except for the wattage? How is the tone different, if at all? Is it just a headroom difference, or does the tone change? Thanks I play 50 watt, handwired clones pretty much exclusively. They don't have as much bottom end girth as the SL. I have mine built with a smaller 50 watt transformer so it's not as loud either. but it's still loud as crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dr. Tweedbucket Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by Rich I play 50 watt, handwired clones pretty much exclusively. They don't have as much bottom end girth as the SL. I have mine built with a smaller 50 watt transformer so it's not as loud either. but it's still loud as crap. My ears are ringing from over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members vlad Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 Originally posted by atbear Sweet. How often do you boost with a pedal? How accurate are your clips to what you're hearing the room? Does it sound like your clips, or better or worse? I guess what I mean is, did you do any post production EQing or touch ups? I boost most of the time. If I want a cleaner, bluesier, crunchier sound then I turn the Maxon off. I think the clips are kind of accurate to what I'm hearing in the room. It sounds better to me in person than when recorded, but that's how things go. I don't use any eq or compression because I suck at eqing and compressing... So what you hear is a dry sound with a bit of delay and/or reverb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tatosh Posted July 7, 2006 Members Share Posted July 7, 2006 50 watters lack some of the bottom end that 100 watters have. They also distort earlier, and I have heard people say they feel like they have more gain. I attribute this to the fact that 100 watters have more headroom. a Superlead cranked should feel similar to a Masterlead (2203). But yeah, a 2203 has an extra gain stage. The powersection in both amps is pretty much identical (at least on the early 2203 models). The diferences are pretty much on the preamp section. I use a hotplate with my superlead and my superbass. That's the only way I am capable of using them, to be honest. Windows shake with these things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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