Members JBecker Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 It seems like every other thread I open (and this is somewhat my fault for reading through some of the political drivel) I read about how scientists are these unreliable, political, and generally unintelligent members of society. As a young man currently pursuing his science degree (and soon enough, his PhD), I am wondering where all the hostility comes from? It's not unique to HCAF or even this time period, it seems like scientists are generally regarded with a hint of disdain and a lack of trust throughout history, locations, etc. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 I'd say because a lot of people resent science (and scientists) telling them something they don't believe, don't want do believe, won't believe, or can't believe, even if what the scientists are saying is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deldgeetar Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Well I think the majority of scientists are given a bad name by the loudmouth types that come out with different reasons why the world will end in X many years....and then are completely wrong. For example, the guy who wrote about the population bomb and how mass starvation would kill the human race, and turned out to be 100 percent false. Also, remember that the first Earth Day had an expose about how the coming ice age will kill us. Today it's all about global warming. We do have to remember that scientists have to make these headlines to continue funding of their projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DirtyBird Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 It's because the average american is an idiot and is threatened by learned, cultured, intelligent people, so they discredit them as much as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Strapping_Young_Lad Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 + too many religous folk in here & this place is mostly american Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by Strapping_Young_Lad + too many religous folk in here & this place is mostly american The irony with science and religion, is when religous folk post "Yeah, well, scientist A says this, scientist B says this, and C says yet another thing. How are we supposed to trust anyone?" without even a hint of irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members deldgeetar Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by DirtyBird It's because the average american is an idiot and is threatened by learned, cultured, intelligent people, so they discredit them as much as they can. :rolleyes: Get off the high horse dumbass. You live in Georgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cosmic_Osmo Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by deldgeetar :rolleyes: Get off the high horse dumbass. You live in Georgia. PWNED!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cosmic_Osmo Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Maybe because scientists are always discovering new things that contradict or disprove their old theories? I have no problem with this: that's the nature of human discovery and the scientific method, and why they are stated as "theories" in the first place. However, a lot of religious folks(sometimes myself included) argue that, while science has offered at least a dozen different contradictory explanations over the decades for the organization of life and matter or earth, religious explanations have remained unchanged for 6,000 years, thus they trust God because he actually sticks to his story, and are wary of the ever changing ideas and motives of scientists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BrendanO Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by Cosmic_Osmo Maybe because scientists are always discovering new things that contradict or disprove their old theories? I have no problem with this: that's the nature of human discovery and the scientific method, and why they are stated as "theories" in the first place. However, a lot of religious folks(sometimes myself included) argue that, while science has offered at least a dozen different contradictory explanations over the decades for the organization of life and matter or earth, religious explanations have remained unchanged for 6,000 years, thus they trust God because he actually sticks to his story, and are wary of the ever changing ideas and motives of scientists. While totally understandable, I (personal opinion; behold!) feel that it's better to be flexible, to be able to take in new information, new knowledge and understanding, and run with it, rather than against it, or try and work it into a static framework of belief and doctrine. Not that religion is all that static, but relative to science. I like that science can say "Well, {censored}, we were wrong. New evidence/theory/experiments/random {censored} on walls show that..." Religion has a hard time admitting the same. But I'm a godless heathen/liberal/scientist with an obvious axe to grind against spirituality and a grudge against those who believe, and have no soul, and an am elistist prick whose only joy in life is poking holes in other people's beliefs that make them better people and brings joy and peace to their lives. They'll pray for me, that my soul find salvation in Jesus Christ our lord and savior, because I'll say "oh god" when I'm about to die. So, y'know, I'm biased and/or wrong about all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6StringGod Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by Cosmic_Osmo Maybe because scientists are always discovering new things that contradict or disprove their old theories? I have no problem with this: that's the nature of human discovery and the scientific method, and why they are stated as "theories" in the first place. However, a lot of religious folks(sometimes myself included) argue that, while science has offered at least a dozen different contradictory explanations over the decades for the organization of life and matter or earth, religious explanations have remained unchanged for 6,000 years, thus they trust God because he actually sticks to his story, and are wary of the ever changing ideas and motives of scientists. yeah but...thats because its not possible to prove it wrong yet and you belive that with no facts or studies or anything proving it to be true so it cant really be changed anyways until most likely a scientist proves it true or untrue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members GnR102385 Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by BrendanO While totally understandable, I (personal opinion; behold!) feel that it's better to be flexible, to be able to take in new information, new knowledge and understanding, and run with it, rather than against it, or try and work it into a static framework of belief and doctrine. Not that religion is all that static, but relative to science. I like that science can say "Well, {censored}, we were wrong. New evidence/theory/experiments/random {censored} on walls show that..." Religion has a hard time admitting the same. But I'm a godless heathen/liberal/scientist with an obvious axe to grind against spirituality and a grudge against those who believe, and have no soul, and an am elistist prick whose only joy in life is poking holes in other people's beliefs that make them better people and brings joy and peace to their lives. They'll pray for me, that my soul find salvation in Jesus Christ our lord and savior, because I'll say "oh god" when I'm about to die. So, y'know, I'm biased and/or wrong about all of this. Fun fact: BrendanO is right. All the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvanS Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by BrendanO I'd say because a lot of people resent science (and scientists) telling them something they don't believe, don't want do believe, won't believe, or can't believe, even if what the scientists are saying is true. Very well put. For someone who listens to gospel all night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rememberduane Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wilmer Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 There is a general anti-modern tendency in the world today. Modernity has showed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mr 5150 Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by AtarisPunk29 It seems like every other thread I open (and this is somewhat my fault for reading through some of the political drivel) I read about how scientists are these unreliable, political, and generally unintelligent members of society. As a young man currently pursuing his science degree (and soon enough, his PhD), I am wondering where all the hostility comes from? It's not unique to HCAF or even this time period, it seems like scientists are generally regarded with a hint of disdain and a lack of trust throughout history, locations, etc. What gives? People don't like to have the magic or unknown element taken out of everything. Some think that science makes life boring in that way. Also for some, it can be an element of jealousy, someone who can explain things in a well reasoned, logical and theoretically sound way can seem threatening and also if people don't fully understand an explanation, it can seem like it's conjecture. Also some think that science is a threat to their way of life/beliefs Such gems like the earth is flat and the centre of the universe and life on earth was created in a week etc, etc, etc..... Others may think scientists are all pawns of large companies of goverments to use to strengthen their positions. Others just like to argue and hate nerds :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by BrendanO I'd say because a lot of people resent science (and scientists) telling them something they don't believe, don't want do believe, won't believe, or can't believe, even if what the scientists are saying is true. +1 And I believe there is a definite culprit.Reason is the enemy of literalist dogmatic religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members indespise Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by Cosmic_Osmo Maybe because scientists are always discovering new things that contradict or disprove their old theories? I have no problem with this: that's the nature of human discovery and the scientific method, and why they are stated as "theories" in the first place. However, a lot of religious folks(sometimes myself included) argue that, while science has offered at least a dozen different contradictory explanations over the decades for the organization of life and matter or earth, religious explanations have remained unchanged for 6,000 years, thus they trust God because he actually sticks to his story, and are wary of the ever changing ideas and motives of scientists. This is a very good reason to side with science from my point of view. Scientists realize that no truth is absolute; any theory or belief can be replaced when new understanding calls for it. The universe is a dynamic thing, so reason should be dynamic as well.Truth must be fliud in order to remain true, anything may be proved wrong and done away with. Religious dogma (i.e. This is what our book says- it is infallible truth, nothing can prove this wrong, we're sticking to our storyit as is- you may not question God) is exactly what keeps mankind from progressing. My signature wraps this up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Purplexi Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Anti science,mother{censored}er's!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Simon Garlick Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by AtarisPunk29 It seems like every other thread I open (and this is somewhat my fault for reading through some of the political drivel) I read about how scientists are these unreliable, political, and generally unintelligent members of society.As a young man currently pursuing his science degree (and soon enough, his PhD), I am wondering where all the hostility comes from?It's not unique to HCAF or even this time period, it seems like scientists are generally regarded with a hint of disdain and a lack of trust throughout history, locations, etc.What gives? To be a successful scientist, you have to be intelligent and educated. The vast majority of people are ignorant, stupid, or both. Tension results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wok Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by Simon Garlick To be a successful scientist, you have to be intelligent and educated. The vast majority of people are ignorant, stupid, or both. Tension results. that's about it, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gdwill2u Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by AtarisPunk29 It seems like every other thread I open (and this is somewhat my fault for reading through some of the political drivel) I read about how scientists are these unreliable, political, and generally unintelligent members of society.As a young man currently pursuing his science degree (and soon enough, his PhD), I am wondering where all the hostility comes from?It's not unique to HCAF or even this time period, it seems like scientists are generally regarded with a hint of disdain and a lack of trust throughout history, locations, etc.What gives? I have not made that observation, in fact quite the opposite; people seem to take a scientists word on everything and anything. Some folks, myself included, just want to make sure that we are questioning these new priests of our secular society and make sure that they can really back up their claims with hard facts and not just conjecture. I don't mind them proposing a theory, for example "evolution, just don't fill in the unexplained spaces with conjecture and lump them together with provable facts as a single entity that explains the origins of man. Scientist tend to confuse conjecture with evidence and then they attach their fragile egos to their conclusions, and this can create a fervor that is almost religious. Finally there are those of us, again I consider myself in this group, who are guarded about the applicaion of raw science without regard to morals and ethics. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gdwill2u Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by indespise +1And I believe there is a definite culprit.Reason is the enemy of literalist dogmatic religion. In my opinion reason is the cohort of religion. God says, "Come, let us reason together" Isiah 1 verse 18. Religion speaks to man's mind and heart.Science oply speaks to man's mind, and that is why it should always stay in submission to decency and morality. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffy Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by indespise This is a very good reason to side with science from my point of view. Scientists realize that no truth is absolute; any theory or belief can be replaced when new understanding calls for it. The universe is a dynamic thing, so reason should be dynamic as well.Truth must be fliud in order to remain true, anything may be proved wrong and done away with. Religious dogma (i.e. This is what our book says- it is infallible truth, nothing can prove this wrong, we're sticking to our storyit as is- you may not question God) is exactly what keeps mankind from progressing. My signature wraps this up nicely. In my case I truly believe that "religious dogma" has nothing to do with it. I am a card carrying Christian and I hate neither scientists nor science. I believe in science as well. In science most of the time you find that the simple answers simply aren't the truth. Things are much more complicated than most people are taught to believe. Most people are taught to rely on common sense and common sense oft times says that the simplest of answers hold true. In science we know that not to be true. Most of the times things are far more complicated than they could possibly ever seem. Take the Inflationary Universe Theory for one. Seems simple on the surface, but dig in a bit and it becomes much more complicated than one would ever have thought. The Inflationary Universe Theory was one that stumped Einstein for such a long time. He considered it to be a great failure of his. He always thought he needed a gravitational constant in his equations because of his and others ingrained beliefs that the Universe was static. Even his great mind could not get past the ingrained "fact" that it was. Sciences are ever evolving and ever changing. People need to get used to it. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members SkidMarx Posted September 21, 2006 Members Share Posted September 21, 2006 Originally posted by AtarisPunk29 It seems like every other thread I open (and this is somewhat my fault for reading through some of the political drivel) I read about how scientists are these unreliable, political, and generally unintelligent members of society.As a young man currently pursuing his science degree (and soon enough, his PhD), I am wondering where all the hostility comes from?It's not unique to HCAF or even this time period, it seems like scientists are generally regarded with a hint of disdain and a lack of trust throughout history, locations, etc.What gives? Is this about the global warming thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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