Members McHale Posted March 20, 2011 Members Share Posted March 20, 2011 A Pro can make the most of what MOST people won't (or can't) make the most of. I'd like to hear a demo of it that represents that. Until now, all the demos sound like every other casio I've ever played at Best Buy or Wal-Mart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crazyfoo Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Casio = {censored} company = {censored} keyboard = {censored} thread If you want to buy a watch, get yourself a casio or if you have a small child and want to buy him a keyboard to see if it's something they might take an interest in, then a casio will be fine. I think casio makes good calculator's too! This thread is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I remember the days when we thought anything made in Japan was crap. I remember when the Toyota was considered a cheap car, actually, it was. Things can change and companies can change. You need to have an open mind in this day and age. Casio is a big company. If they really wanted to put out a Kronos killer I am sure they could. They would have a problem with their name, but I am sure they have the resources to do it. I think they were very smart. Casio will make a lot of money on this board, and yes you will see them used dirt cheap. It doesn't matter what you use to make music as long as you enjoy it and your happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 said you'd put it up against anything under $1000 and I would put a Korg M50 against it any day of the week. So, let's discuss. How is the Casio better than an M50? I could see certain applications where the WK7500 could be preferable, there are a variety of ways someone could find it better for their purposes: battery operation, the accompaniment functionality, the real-time 9-fader "drawbar" function (it's not as good as the real "clonewheels" but it still has more drawbar functionality than an M50), the built-in speakers, 76 keys (since at under $1k, you're probably talking about a 61-key M50), and some functions may be simpler (i.e. because of the dedicated buttons for split, layer, common preset categories, etc.... a bit more like the approach Korg took to simplify the PS60). As I said, everything has its tradeoffs. I do kind of wonder about how it would sound through a Ventilator. The combination, at $1,000, would still be well cheaper than any current clonewheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Casio isn't about to set out to make anything that could compete with the Kronos, or Motif, or Triton, or PC3 or... They have carved themselves a nice niche market and are probably making a ton of money doing it. They would lose their ass if they invested in the R&D that Yamaha or Korg or Kurz have and they know they'd never be able to compete just because of name/recognition alone. Why does anyone think that they aren't exactly where they want to be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Oh, I am sure Casio is exactly where they want to be. They are and old established company. Who would have ever thought that the lowly Toyota in the 1960's would every compete with the likes of General Motors, Chrysler or Ford. They were a joke back then. Same thing for the Volkswagon. I love the Motif, all the Tritons and I am sure the Kronos will be a musical delight. You never know what a company will do until they do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 13ghostsofscoobydoo Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Oh, I am sure Casio is exactly where they want to be. They are and old established company. Who would have ever thought that the lowly Toyota in the 1960's would every compete with the likes of General Motors, Chrysler or Ford. They were a joke back then. Same thing for the Volkswagon. I love the Motif, all the Tritons and I am sure the Kronos will be a musical delight. You never know what a company will do until they do it. Why did you post almost the same thing nearly an hour apart in this thread? Methinks maybe you have the Casio of memories! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I've played the PX-330 a few times at a store and if anybody wants a light board with a good piano sounds (acoustic and EPs), I don't they'll get fired for playing one on stage. Pianos and EPs were actually pretty good - and I suspect the sounds will be similar in the WK-7500. There were some pretty good pads and synth sounds as well. I think McHale gets a bit too excited on his hatred of a couple of brands out there... the PX-330 can be used professionally and I suspect the WK-7500 can, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 But to be fair, those who can't afford the "big names" understand the difference, too: They get something that works, is built well, sounds decent, and has some nice extras (e.g., recording audio, portability). However, I do think the initial "Kronos killer" hype was a total . Just because the WK-7500 scores really high in the value department doesn't mean it has a 12GB ROM, nine synth engines, solid-state disk drive, etc. etc. etc. I can't see Jordan Rudess rushing out to buy a WK-7500. However, I can easily see the kid who wants to be the next Jordan Rudess starting out with one And as I said earlier, it makes better music than many sound libraries, at a much lower cost. Whether that's by accident or design I don't know, but it does indicate there's more to it than meets the eye. I think what's interesting about the current generation of gear in general is how many professional features have filtered down to more consumer-oriented products. That's why something like the WK-7500 does meet a lot of people's needs - it gives a lot more than they would expect for $500. There was a guy in my pro review of the Venom who wanted a keyboard he could play with his son, who was getting into music, and wondered if the Venom was a good choice for out-of-the-box enjoyment. Well, I think the Venom is very cool, but after reading what he was looking for, I recommended the WK-7500. It's something his kid COULD enjoy out of the box just playing, but when he got tired of that, he could get into sequencing...then singing on top of that...then modifying the patches...hooking it up to his computer...I think he would get a lot of mileage out of it. In any event, times have changed since when getting a $200 guitar or $500 keyboard would be such a product you'd get turned off to music forever rather than getting into it! I'm not very familiar with these arranger-type boards. Can you do up a whole arranged song, then export it as a MIDI file? Or are the arranged parts only onboard? What is the quality of the actual arrangements, compared to the Tyros or Korg Pa2X? If it's competitive, then I see it as an inexpensive yet powerful tool, regardless of it's sound. As a side note, Craig: I've enjoyed and been informed by your excellent columns and reviews for 30 years now, and I just want to say thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 the CZ-101 is one of the greatest synths of all time mini keys and alltoy? mine has 25 years on it and its outlasted several Korgsso there! I used to use mine for the flute in "Nights In White Satin". [ATTACH=CONFIG]333130[/ATTACH] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members McHale Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I think McHale gets a bit too excited on his hatred of a couple of brands out there... the PX-330 can be used professionally and I suspect the WK-7500 can, too. I don't hate Casio - check my posts above. I am defending them. I have owned several Casio keyboards since the and during the analog days. I'm defending against the "KRONOS KILLER" and "Better than anything under $1000" comments that are strictly fanboyism to an extreme. I don't think the WK-7500 is a POS, I would like to see a demo of it that makes me want one. For the record, Roland is the only company I think that needs to fail to bankruptcy to free the musical world from any of it's existence or noise pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well you did say that the only place where a Casio will get you is to the unemployment line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 It has no MIDI IN. It has no MIDI OUT. It could have the best on-board patches in the world and it still wouldn't be worth $99 to me. AnotherScott stated earlier that it has MIDI over USB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 You obviously do not appreciate the value of beer. Good DAY, sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ramkeys Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I was the first responder to this thread....This thing has plenty of things to work with and no doubt would be fun to play with, flesh out ideas, even take to practice and plug in to your little 15 Watt VOX tube "killer amp" and get the job done. I also researched the EMU Longboard, same reason,on sale for $299/$239 Shortboard. I just hate taking my good stuff off the truck just to amuse myself or learn a song. Having TOP NOTCH stuff makes it hard to arrange on this thing, as I would start from scratch re-doing it on pro stuff anyway. Great forthose without, but believe me, they will soon figure out why we pros buy the good stuff first and be done with it. A feature-loaded board for is great for $499, but I have to pay $500 for a Neo Ventilator to make my CX-3 Leslie sound better. A FOOT PEDAL FOR GOD'S SAKE.... WK-7500= latest "STYLOPHONE KILLER".........Just Sayin' Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 AnotherScott stated earlier that it has MIDI over USB. Yes, but it isn't the same. If they could only have one, it would have been better to have standard MIDI instead of USB, since the latter generally has no use unless you hook up a computer. Meanwhile, anything you can do with it with USB could still have been done if they had used standard MIDI ports instead, it just requires an adapter for your computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I'm defending against the "KRONOS KILLER" and "Better than anything under $1000" comments that are strictly fanboyism to an extreme. ...For the record, Roland is the only company I think that needs to fail to bankruptcy to free the musical world from any of it's existence or noise pollution. If a fanboy is someone who refuses to see a company or product's shortcomings, what is the word for a person who refuses to see a company or product's good points? Roland does have some nice pieces. I think V-Synth, VR-700, SA-300, and the "keytar" pieces are all pretty nice for what they are; and before the Korg PS60, the Juno series out-did Korg or Yamaha on simple-to-use cheap bread-and-butter boards; and I still think the JV-1010/XV-2020 are really nice pieces for someone who needs to add a bunch of decent rompler sounds in a tiny half-rack piece you could velcro to a typical stage piano; and I think their FP and RD series stage pianos are competitive in that market. The Gaia synth is kinda cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 You obviously do not appreciate the value of beer. Point well taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Why did you post almost the same thing nearly an hour apart in this thread? Methinks maybe you have the Casio of memories! Sorry. After posting that I had that deja vue (or whatever the hell it is) feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Synthaholic Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 Yes, but it isn't the same. If they could only have one, it would have been better to have standard MIDI instead of USB, since the latter generally has no use unless you hook up a computer. Meanwhile, anything you can do with it with USB could still have been done if they had used standard MIDI ports instead, it just requires an adapter for your computer. Well, yes of course actual MIDI ports would be better. I was just clarifying that it does indeed support MIDI. I would never see this as a performance keyboard if it is geared more toward a home arranger market. And in that scenario, the USB is not as big a problem. That said, it's a boneheaded move by any company to look for cost savings by leaving off what is essentially a cheap plastic part which is responsible for so many connectivity options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members solomon8 Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 That said, it's a boneheaded move by any company to look for cost savings by leaving off what is essentially a cheap plastic part which is responsible for so many connectivity options. This is really a shame with all the other features. If it is your only keyboard your sort of screwed in that department. It just amazes me that someone has not come up with a connector of some kind. The Casio is not the only one that has this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 I would never see this as a performance keyboard if it is geared more toward a home arranger market. And in that scenario, the USB is not as big a problem. True... what many of us see as shortcomings are largely shortcomings in a live performance environment, and if that's not where this piece is aimed, it's kind of like complaining that a car doesn't include a propellor. But if a car could become a boat if only they had added a propellor, people might express similar frustrations. That is, the absence of good performance features is frustrating in the WK *because* it would seem to take so little to turn it into a pretty nice budget performance board. Casio did take the PX-130/PX-330 and create a more "professional" version in the PX-3. Maybe they will do something similar with the WK, adding some of the PX-3 and MZ-2000 functionality it lacks. Though I will say that, even as a home arranger, I'd rather see real MIDI ports than USB, as it only adds to what you can do and doesn't detract. Even in home use, it's not always convenient to have to be tied to a computer to do something with MIDI. Also, since its price makes it a nice "first keyboard" for someone, it's easier for a new player to build on it in the future if it has real MIDI ports. It also makes it more future-proof. Five years from now, USB may seem as antiquated as serial and parallel are today... but there will still be MIDI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AnotherScott Posted March 21, 2011 Members Share Posted March 21, 2011 This is really a shame with all the other features. If it is your only keyboard your sort of screwed in that department. It just amazes me that someone has not come up with a connector of some kind. That iConnectMIDI will do it (and a bunch of other things) if it ever ships... but it's $199. It would be nice if someone came out with something that just did this one thing in a little adapter for maybe $79 or less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danuniversal Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 Imitating the sound of another instrument is a pretty stiff test, and many now famous instruments would have failed it at the time they were introduced: A Moog doesn't sound remotely like a piano, and a Hammond Organ won't fool many people into believing that it is a classical church organ. Easy street for an instrument is having a composer write something that exhibits its strengths and hides its weaknesses. That might happen to the Casio - especially if there are composers out there with more talent than money - in which case twenty years from now keyboard players in tribute bands might be carefully getting their patches to sound like the Casio WK-7500. Casio VL-TONE VL-1 VSTi http://www.polyvalens.com/vl1/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members danuniversal Posted March 22, 2011 Members Share Posted March 22, 2011 Casio VL-TONE VL-1 VSTi http://www.polyvalens.com/vl1/index.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casio_VL-1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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