Need help choosing a pro Keyboard... Ease of use in live settings is key!

[Farmogoyf]

Hey all,

 

Last post from me on this topic, I promise :-)

 

I have tried every keyboard and it's sister I could get my hands on, and, I have determined my ideal live keyboard/synth would look something like this:

 

1) Easy to use live quickly (absolutely THE most important thing). I like having a nice sized preset bank, and options of how I can set up sounds (splits, layers, and such) without too much button pressing.

2) About 40 lbs (roughly, I'm flexable here)

3) 88 key preferred, but 76 is fine.

4) Weighted keys (or semi weighted if thats what it would take to keep the weight around #2).

5) A good all around feeling keybed (subjective I know) as this would likely be a controller later.

6) 128 polyphony minimum, I don't want to get a module/additional keyboard right now, and 64 polyphony was too little for some layers I would like to do live (had the MOX and returned it just because of this).

7) No need for a sequencer because would almost entirely be for live playing.

8) Screen size 240 x 60 DOT minimum. Tried the S70XS, which met all my criteria but this, but the screen size drove me nuts, because even though I want something I can use live quickly, I like to fiddle and make fun layers and different multis (to use Yamaha terminology), and I DON'T want to have to flip through a bunch of menus to do it.

9) Good selection of sounds: piano, strings, organs and pads being most important (again, must be on board, as I don't plan on getting a module/software anytime soon).

10) Cost is no object, I'd rather be happy with my purchase than buy something cheaper I will want to trade in 6 months.

 

 

So, thats my ideal board. The MOX I had was close: fun and easy to use live, with a decent display and not too much button pushing to access get the features I want, but the 64 note polyphony killed it. So, I would love a keyboard with the ease of use and has a screen size no smaller than the MOX, with 128 polyphony. Does such a board exist?

[DrPopper]

Jupiter 80

[AnotherScott]

Motif XF7. Pretty much everything you liked about the MOX plus 128 note polyphony, aftertouch, an even better screen, and the ability to load plenty more samples into it (Yamaha's, third party, or your own).

 

You could also look at a Roland Jupiter 80 and Korg Kronos 73 (which gives you a fully weighted action, unlike those Yamaha and Roland models).

 

Each will have its pros and cons, but I think those are the ones that you'd want to choose from.

[Farmogoyf]

 

Motif XF7. Pretty much everything you liked about the MOX plus 128 note polyphony, aftertouch, an even better screen, and the ability to load plenty more samples into it (Yamaha's, third party, or your own). You could also look at a Roland Jupiter 80 and Korg Kronos 73 (which gives you a fully weighted action, unlike those Yamaha and Roland models). Each will have its pros and cons, but I think those are the ones that you'd want to choose from.

 

 

I didn't really like the very menu oriented XF, I kept trying to like it, but I will never use most of the features, so even though I don't mind them, there were many menus to do the same things I could do with 1 or 2 clicks on the MOX, like create new layers, splits, and multiple parts. I don't mind extra features, but I want it to be easy to work around having them.

[Farmogoyf]

Didn't really like the XF7, it was just like the MOX, but it took several menus to get to do what the MOX could do in 1 -2 clicks of a button (like, splits, layers, and such). I don't mind a keyboard having functionality I don't need, but I'd like it to be easy to do other things live playing keyboards (like the s90xs) can do. I guess the ideal board for me would be something like a MOX with 128 polyphony or an S70XS with a screen the size of the MOX or bigger.

[keybdwizrd]

 

I guess the ideal board for me would be something like a MOX with 128 polyphony or an S70XS with a screen the size of the MOX or bigger.

 

 

[video=youtube;toiM1B6E2ww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toiM1B6E2ww

[Farmogoyf]

 

 

 

Lol. Love it!

[Crazyfoo]

I have the JP-80 and I'm not lovin' the pianos on it.

 

I think if you could put up with the small displ;ay and extra weight, the PC3X would make you quite happy.

It's my go-to keyboard.

[DJ RAZZ]

 

I have the JP-80 and I'm not lovin' the pianos on it. I think if you could put up with the small displ;ay and extra weight, the PC3X would make you quite happy. It's my go-to keyboard.

 

 

I second the KURZ PC3K.

[epyon77x]

+1 on PC3. Any variant.

 

Nice amount of VERY usable presets, crazy simple setup construction and fx management within setups, lots of controllers which are also easily assignable and an excellent note stealing algorithm. I rarely had noticeable poly drop outs.

 

I recommend the 76 key version because lugging an 88 around isnt much fun.

[oceancruze1]

+2 on PC3 PC3X lovin it, great sounding everything, have the band right there with me don't need the rest, solo performance, no more lookin for me I found it and I've had the others found the best for what I need

[Farmogoyf]

OP here, Its really interesting a large consensus is on the PC3 series, because at a local store, I found BOTH the PC3 76, and the PC3X new in box for cheap, AND they are willing to negotiate to even cheaper to get the sell! They are just looking to clear out their old inventory, so I may just have to help them....

[AnotherScott]

Kurz makes great boards, but compared to the others we're talking about, I think you'll find them more complicated. I don't happen to like the semi-weighted action of the 76, but that's personal preference. I think the piano sound is weaker than the others, but that's also subjective.

 

One more board you could look at is the Nord Stage 2. It doesn't have the big display, but you still don't "have to flip through a bunch of menus" because it hardly uses menus at all, it's got direct access knobs for almost everything you would care about. The place it might fall down for you is polyphony, but I would say try it in person before dismissing it on specs. I haven't heard any actual Nord user complain about polyphony.

 

You can't compare polyphony simply based on a spec sheet. Different algorithms for implementation make a difference. I heard drop outs playing a solo piano passage on a 64-note-polyphony MOX6 that I did not hear when playing the same passage on a 32-note-polyphony Yamaha NP30, both using their main default piano sounds... not that I personally find the MOX To be problematic, it was a passage I created specifically to try to get a note to drop out, and not something that would occur in my normal playing, but it was still interesting to see that their other board with "half" the polyphony actually performed better in this respect. Also, polyphony is actually measured differently on different boards. i.e. Yamaha gives you the total number of elements that can sound simultaneously; Nord gives you the number of notes you can play for each of its engines separately (so for example, adding strings or organ to piano does not reduce the polyphony of the piano). Really, you have to play them to see how they behave for you.

[delaware dave]

Once the PC3 programming is setup, the live performance is a piece of cake. They have the quick access list. You simply put your 10 favorite programs/setups in the list and that list is staring you in the face all night and switching from program to program or setup to setup is one click away. So I would have to respectfully disagree with anotherscott since the first criteria was ease of use in a live setting. Yes, the PC3 is somewhat complicated to program but once the programming and the setups are done and the quick access list is created, live performance is a breeze.

[AnotherScott]

 

Once the PC3 programming is setup, the live performance is a piece of cake. They have the quick access list. You simply put your 10 favorite programs/setups in the list and that list is staring you in the face all night and switching from program to program or setup to setup is one click away.

 

 

Yes, the Kurz QA mode is good for live performance. Each has their pros and cons here. Kurz gives you instant program/setup recall of 10 patches at a time, with the name of the patches shown nicely on the display. The MOX has the advantage of giving you 16 at a time instead of 10 (their name for Quick Access Mode is Performance Mode), but you have to hit a button to see the patch names, and they are not laid out as nicely. The Kronos ("Set List Mode") gives you 16 at a time on a touch screen where the names of the patches are right on the buttons. Nord is weaker here, as only 5 at a time can be instantly recalled, and there is no on-screen labeling, though other things are simpler because of how much of the Nord can be operated in "live control" mode, you can more easily interact with it in real time so you don't necessarily rely as much on patch recall as you do with typical workstation-style boards. (Though there are some ways to enhance its patch recall functionality, which have been discussed on the Nord forum.)

 

But the other part ease of use the OP mentioned was the setup -- "set up sounds (splits, layers, and such) without too much button pressing" and " make fun layers and different multis (to use Yamaha terminology), and I DON'T want to have to flip through a bunch of menus to do it." That's why he dismissed the S70XS, and I think the Kurz is going to comparably frustrate him here.The Kronos may also not be as easy as he'd like here, but the big screen helps. Though he didn't like the XF7 either, for the same reason, so that still might not be good enough. Which makes me think that the very different approaches of the Jupiter 80 and Nord Stage 2 are worth his time to check out.

[delaware dave]

I'm not sure that the Nord would meet his polyphony requirement nor is it ideal for playing organ as the action is even heavier than the PC3's semi-weighted keyboard . The semi-weighted keyboard of the PC3 gives him some flexibility in this area although I've read the complaints concerning the 'compromised' feel. I find it works well enough for all electro-mechanical and acoustic piano passages. Just heavy enough for light piano action and just light enough for organ. Others may not feel that way but now that I'm personally used to the keyboard action it works fine for me. As far as his other requests (piano, strings, organs and pads being most important) the PC3 covers all of these more than adequately. It was based on the above criteria and the live performance criteria that made me lean toward the PC3. Alot of subjectivity in all the recommendations .....

[Farmogoyf]

 

Yes, the Kurz QA mode is good for live performance. Each has their pros and cons here. Kurz gives you instant program/setup recall of 10 patches at a time, with the name of the patches shown nicely on the display. The MOX has the advantage of giving you 16 at a time instead of 10 (their name for Quick Access Mode is Performance Mode), but you have to hit a button to see the patch names, and they are not laid out as nicely. The Kronos ("Set List Mode") gives you 16 at a time on a touch screen where the names of the patches are right on the buttons. Nord is weaker here, as only 5 at a time can be instantly recalled, and there is no on-screen labeling, though other things are simpler because of how much of the Nord can be operated in "live control" mode, you can more easily interact with it in real time so you don't necessarily rely as much on patch recall as you do with typical workstation-style boards. (Though there are some ways to enhance its patch recall functionality, which have been discussed on the Nord forum.) But the other part ease of use the OP mentioned was the setup -- "set up sounds (splits, layers, and such) without too much button pressing" and " make fun layers and different multis (to use Yamaha terminology), and I DON'T want to have to flip through a bunch of menus to do it." That's why he dismissed the S70XS, and I think the Kurz is going to comparably frustrate him here.The Kronos may also not be as easy as he'd like here, but the big screen helps. Though he didn't like the XF7 either, for the same reason, so that still might not be good enough. Which makes me think that the very different approaches of the Jupiter 80 and Nord Stage 2 are worth his time to check out.

 

 

OP here. I haven't ruled out the Kronos, I actually went to my local Sam ash over my lunch break and gave it a good hour long playthrough, trying to see if I could live with the option heavy menus. It wasn't too bad, as was mentioned, because of the huge screen. Plus another nice thing with the Kronos is that the technology is so new that it would probably be several years before I would even have to think about expanding. So the longevity is pretty nice.

[Vito Corleone]

 

OP here. I haven't ruled out the Kronos, I actually went to my local Sam ash over my lunch break and gave it a good hour long playthrough, trying to see if I could live with the option heavy menus. It wasn't too bad, as was mentioned, because of the huge screen. Plus another nice thing with the Kronos is that the technology is so new that it would probably be several years before I would even have to think about expanding. So the longevity is pretty nice.

 

 

The setlist mode makes the Kronos a great choice for a live performance board. Having 16 presets per page, named and sorted however I like, available with one touch, is great. Plus the way the patches switch from one-to-the-next (if you switch a patch while hold down any keys, the sound doesn't change until you strike another key) is also great for live use.

[AnotherScott]

 

I'm not sure that the Nord would meet his polyphony requirement nor is it ideal for playing organ as the action is even heavier than the PC3's semi-weighted keyboard .

 

Yeah, I mentioned the polyphony issue too... but it's worth trying in person for the reasons I mentioned. I mean, despite the "40 to 60" piano engine polyphony spec, I have yet to read any complaint about it from anyone who owns the NS2 or same-spec Nord Piano.

 

As for the keyboard, he did mention he prefers weighted if possible, so I guess he leans more toward piano usage. As weighted actions go, I think Nord's is above average for organ playing... admittedly that could be seen as damning with faint praise... but the action is on the light side for a weighted action, and you can set the trigger point high for organ playing, which helps.

 

As for playing piano on a non-weighted board, I think the Roland may have the edge there.

[Crazyfoo]

 

Plus the way the patches switch from one-to-the-next (if you switch a patch while hold down any keys, the sound doesn't change until you strike another key) is also great for live use.

 

 

The ESQ-1 did that back in the day, one of my favorite features about it, man they were so ahead of their time.

[ChristianRock]

Nobody mentioned the Roland RD700NX yet?

 

Roland's RD series was always all about easily setting up layers and splits on the fly during live playing, and having all the features you need easily accessible. So maybe check that one out!

 

Also, it's "little brother" the RD300NX has much of the same features and is a bit smaller and quite lighter. Its piano is gorgeous, or at least I think so! Not as many sounds as the RD700NX but if it's got what you want, and it's quite portable, it just might be your ticket.

 

Both are 88-keys, weighted action. And it might be the best piano action out there right now!

[epyon77x]

 

Kurz makes great boards, but compared to the others we're talking about, I think you'll find them more complicated.

 

 

Kurz boards are complicated when delving into from scratch programming, but that reputation doesnt really do them justice in all regards because assembling setups is the easiest/fastest Ive ever seen. Making splits and layers, assigning controllers is all done via simple shortcuts which includes pressing just two keys ( no arcane techniques, simple stuff that even a lazy doofus like me picked up fast ), assigning FX is done automatically and using master and aux fx is pretty simple.. The only thing that complicates matters is making setups around KB3 programs which are heavy on FX usage.

 

PC3 has its quirks and shortcomings but it is godsend when getting the most out of your sounds in setup mode and doing it all fast is in question. Ex Korg user, never looked back...

[stillearning]

I'll chime in here to back up AnotherScott on the Nord Stage. I don't think keyboards get any easier to use in a live situation than the Stage. Probably the only keyboard I've ever owned where you don't really even need the manual, it's that simple to use. Everything's right in front of your face, and intuitive. Compared to my other 88 key workstation-style boards, it's a breeze, and I've got 3 others, a Korg, a Roland, and a Kurz. As far as action goes, I find it really nice for piano, and very usable for organ. And also agree on the polyphony issue. I use lots of splits and layers on mine, and have yet to run dry.

[halluxone]

Gotta agree with CR on this one...love or hate Roland, they are pretty damn easy to use in live situations. I had an A-90EX for years then got a RD700GX...great action, super easy to roll through patches on stage. The 300NX might be just the lightweight option you need, plus it doesn't totally break the bank. Also love the Nord Stage 2 since you can just keep updating patches as Clavia comes out with new ones! Kurz just doesn't click for me for stage use...peace!

[oceancruze1]

But outside of the RD700GX having a great feel and piano what else does it possess? Was a mystery to me, thats why I sold mine, organ was pretty much a monotone, no leslie effec virtually at all even after I bought a neo ventilator it wasn't there for me, strings were mediocre and instrumentals not much there at all to entertain you with other sounds. Kurz PC3X pretty much blows it away in virtually every other category and the piano is excellent too.