Have iPad synths capped?

[Casio Man]

Whats the next big thing in iPad synths? After a very promising start, things have started to trickle and lately the new additions have been quirky at best.

 

As with the games, there seems to be a strict limit how impressive the apps can be; a limit that is much more related to money and time than processing power. Is the price that people are ready to pay for iOS apps too little for getting to touch the real thing? Or is even porting something ambitious so time consuming, that we couldn't have seen them earlier? Its inevitable that eventually tablets will run anything and everything, but will The New iPad ever run something BIG? Can we even dream about Waldorf Largo or Korg Legacies on iPad? What about real Reason(say, 4 for example)?

[AnotherScott]

Part of the issue is that there are still millions of "old" iPads out there. Developers want to write apps that run on all of them. (In fact, it's possible that Apple might even require that an app run on every model.) So even though the newest model has much more RAM, we're still seeing only apps that are capable of running in the relatively small amount of RAM that was in the original iPad.

[Gribs]

I would personally pay more money for better apps, but as was said memory, especially with iPad version 1, and processing power limits what can be done.

 

Games are being undone by the stupid business model of trying to make money via in-app purchases and a flood of designs that are clones of one or two tired ideas. I would pay decent money for one or two solid games having good design. I stopped buying games a while ago due to these issues.

[girevik]

iPad controller apps have not reached their maximum potential, imo. Lemur is an intriguing choice - it can be used for sequencing as well as adjustment of synth parameters. Lemur users are just beginning to scratch the surface.

 

TC-11 is another example of innovative controller design on the iPad, coupled with a modular synthesis engine with a choice of at least 21 modules. Its already been updated to take advantage of the Retina display.

[gregwar]

the specs and the price point are what make it a toy. developers continue to amaze despite the 'app' framework, which has always translated to mean 'not a serious program' to me.

 

regardless of economies of scale the pro audio market is way smaller than the tablet market.

 

lets say uad is cannibalizing its hardware sales to sell plug-ins on their dsp platform. the price point of $100-400 doesn't seem that unreasonable for a massive passive or fatso emulation. its ~10% of the cost of the hardware but is still profitable because they can sell 10x as many plug-ins.

 

lets say mac/win plug-ins are arbitrarily $100-400. if you make apps for the ios platform you can only charge $5-50 so again its like ~10% of the price. for some developers like korg they will sell 10x the apps vs plug-ins so it scales.

 

for hundreds of more obscure plug-in developers it doesn't scale the same way. they have to take a long hard look at painstaking rnd time investments vs lower or non-existant profit margins vs cannibalization of plug-ins sales vs only 70% gross (apple takes 30% off the top). that time could be spent tackling bugs, 64 bit versions, making new plug-ins, and win 7/8 or osx 10.7/8 compatibility.

 

spec wise they need to allow minimum 4g ram and 2.66g core 2 duo equivalent imho. the graphics aren't that important as long as the multiple guis can function smoothly. something like an i5 or i7 would be amazing. until then there just isn't enough balls to run most of amazing things out there.

 

i've been hearing rumours already that the next apple a6 chip is supposed to be a quad core but who knows. audio processing would especially benefit from quad cores and sampler plug-ins more ram (although ssds do reduce system access times and the need for way more ram)

 

in the next couple years the tablet space is gonna be on my watch list. i think win 8 and tablet pc manufacturers are going to give ios and mac os a decent run for the money. hopefully they bring some much more powerful tools like a 13" ipad pro that has macbook air internals and runs osx with usb and thunderbolt connectivity.

 

*note: the numbers above are mostly just made up to illustrate a point and many factors are left out for the sake of brevity. if anyone knows where i can find more data and thorough analysis of the plug-in vs ios app market shoot me a link.

[Conbrio]

it's possible that Apple might even require that an app run on every model.

 

Yeah, that's possible, but it's also a rather arrogant attitude when it comes to new software developers. But of course this is Apple we're talking about.

 

[zoink]

What developers are beginning to see is that the real potential of the iPad -- which is still in its infancy -- is its function as a display and computer brain for dockable controller hardware with dedicated software. This is what, for example, Akai has begun to do in a big way, with the MPC Fly and Akai Synthstation 49.

 

Developers of 'apps' are running into the limits of the iPad's display size, the touch screen interface (which isn't very good for triggering notes, whether on a virtual keyboard or virtual drum pad), and OS and processor speed (even getting multiple apps to run together is sort of a work-around).

 

And yes, there is also the normative pressure to sell it for less than $10, since that's what most 'apps' go for. Once you price an app above $20, I'd wager the number of buyers drops by a factor of 5 or more, depending on what it is and how expensive it is.

 

So, the "cap" we're seeing in the development of music making apps for the iPad is really because makers of dedicated hardware docks and software haven't had time yet to work with the IDEA of what an iPad is. The iPad is still relatively new, and the time to market to make dedicated hardware for the iPad runs longer than an iteration cycle (versions 1, 2, 3, ...) for the iPad itself.

 

The iPad is really kind of unique. There is a lot of what people who study technology call "interpretive flexibility" in what it can be made into.

[Casio Man]

slowly, Casio Man patience, these things take time...I'm just so impatient!

 

A little relief for addicts in the form of update:

[video=youtube;ekI7_Osoers]

 

While dreaming of iPad synths I have also been snooping around for exciting soft synths requirements that might fit into iPad. Yeah, hard to compare really, and they would probably also need to work harder than they could while working on their main businesses, but I can't seem to choose my dreams. Perhaps some external companies could offer them selves to do the work, like The Detune ltd who made iMS-20(who have been curiously silent after releasing Korg M1 for Nintendo DS btw).

 

Way Out Ware TimewARP 2600:

1GHz processor, 256MB RAM

 

Korg Legacy Collections:

Intel Pentium III 1GHz(or G4 500MHz), 256MB RAM

 

Waldorf Largo:

AMD Athlon, 800 MHz, 64MB RAM

 

Have Korg Legacies been discontinued? Why? Could they hinder their hardware sales? Would that also be another reason why the Legacies are not in iPad yet? Largo on iPad might also hurt Blofeld sales a bit.

 

I also would like running several synths on iPad on the same time, BUT as long as the processing power is limited, I'd like to see single apps that max the damn device; I don't have to do everyting on iPad. I just want to have really good synths.

[Brucie808]

Given the kind of economies of scale Gregwar talks about, I think it's no accident that the app that, it seems to me, makes the best use of the interface and processing power of the iPad is by Apple itself. I think the features added in the last Garageband for iPad update like note editing, Smart Strings and Jam Session really showcase what can be done, even on the original ipad. Obviously it's worthwhile for Apple to put the time and effort in on Garageband for iPad because it helps to sell the hardware where they really make their profit.

 

What I've seen of the new ios app Figure from Propellerheads is an interesting case in point. It was being touted as Reason for the ipad but I couldn't help being underwhelmed by the demos I've seen of it. Although some of the interface elements look interesting, in terms of the number of parts and sound it produces, it looks pretty limited to me.

 

I remember running Reason when it first came out a PC laptop that I'm sure was much less powerful than an ipad but it was able to run multiple drum and synth parts. Compare that to Figure and it's easy to feel it's a bit of step backwards. But I guess the issue for Propellerheads is how much development and programming time they can justify putting into an app that is going to sell for $1. It feels very much like Propellerheads are tipping their toe into ios and seeing what happens. Native Instruments did it (much more successfullly I thought) with iMaschine but for the time being it seems like the bigger music software companies are still focused on PC and Mac software where their margins are presumably much better.

[soundwave106]

 

Have Korg Legacies been discontinued? Why? Could they hinder their hardware sales?

 

 

Somewhere I got the impression that low margins and high rates of piracy were why Korg pushed the Legacy Collection off to the side (you can still get them, but they've been pushed off to their website) and aren't developing much in that realm anymore.

 

It's the reason why a few big softie companies are developing hardware/software combo solutions, I reckon (eg Arturia's step into hardware; NI's Maschine; etc.)

[donaldcrunk]

i have yet to get an iPad, but i've spent the last week with my new iPhone running Animoog and VoiceLive (by IK) exclusively. the iphone gets sent into a looping/processing rig in lieu of the synth that used to do the same.

 

for my application, these apps are great. you really don't get much more than a simplified standalone tone generator in any iPhone app, and given the size of the screen i don't know if you'd want to. the end loop-result is not as complex, but the convenience and some of the other peformance parameters more than make up for it. not to mention the self-choirs and crazy vocal stuff that VoiceLive allows, i've never had anything analogous to that in hardware. i've finally joined 2012 apparently.

 

 

the iPad shows so much more potential, but i still feel it's value more as a standalone instrument than a linked-in studio tool. in this sense, a "big" standalone softsynth is an inevitability - but the ease at which these apps can be created and the pricepoint at which they can be sold at has meant that there are a lot of really crappy sounding synth apps out there. i think when musicians begin to tire of the novelty of so many crappy softsynth apps to choose from, there will be more concentration on improving the existing apps than spamming out more (which is what seems to be happening now). i think Animoog is a great example of that, moog really took their time designing this thing and it shows in comparison to so many others.

 

my disjointed .02

[The Audacity Works]

Part of the issue is that there are still millions of "old" iPads out there. Developers want to write apps that run on all of them. (In fact, it's possible that Apple might even require that an app run on every model.)

Apple "suggests" developers support the widest variety of iOS devices, but it's not a requirement.

[McHale]

Have iPad synths capped?

 

We can hope so Billy. We can hope so.

 

[liliththekitten]

Apple will support the original iPad until, well, they don't support it. The original iPhone and iPod Touch had a good run until Apple decided they wouldn't run iOs 4 and the second generation iPhone won't run 5 I think. Even many 5-year-old Intel Macs won't be able to run Mountain Lion ...this includes mine so I'm a bit peeved.

 

I like iPad, I just wish it was a more open platform like a PC or even Android so you could put anything you wanted on it without jailbreaking. I have a dev account for work and hacking though and I understand why they're doing it this way.

 

Also I read the thread title as "Have iPad synths crapped?"

[gregwar]

lol

the whole app gold rush is bogus especially ish like leaf trombones . sorry if it's ur favorite app but it's unfortunate they're pushing that and other spam. it alienates real developers and customers drowning in a sea of meaningless novelty apps.

 

I think the elephant in the room is the strength of the iOS platform.

 

apparently there's 1.3+ billion working, configured computers out there and 100+ million iOS activations. most people only use 1 iphone and/or 1 ipad at a time so without deactivation figures it's hard to draw any real conclusions except that desktops and laptops will plateau at some point.

 

data is shifting to mobile like landlines. apple has a strong position in the 'post-pc' world and tim is confident in their huge potential for growth and wasting time. imo it is possible to overcome adjectives like delightful and magical and be productive.

 

one proactive idea would be for us to design guis for music apps by musicians. it inevitably comes up when I chat with my developer friends and is a huge stumbling block. an example is the fairlight app it's sequencer is almost unusable.

 

maybe we could start another thread if anyone wants to add their .02 and put their photoshop skills to good use !1

[zoink]

one proactive idea would be to design guis for music apps by musicians. it inevitably comes up when I chat with my developer friends and is a huge stumbling block. an example is the fairlight app it's sequencer is almost unusable.

 

 

It sounds like they were faithful to the original.

[zoink]

 

 

 

I've been using Addictive Synth for a while, and just updated to the new version. Pretty impressive.

[keybdwizrd]

 

I've been using Addictive Synth for a while, and just updated to the new version. Pretty impressive.

 

 

I just bought Addictive Synth after your recommendation, and it is excellent. It's a powerful synth that takes advantage of the iPad, being able modulate things by tilting the iPad around, and drawing waves on the touchscreen. I think anyone who is into synths could have loads of fun and creativity with Addictive Synth, and it's only five bucks! A comparable softsynth for the Mac and/or PC could be $100 - $200.

 

Thanks for the tip.

[koolkat]

 

I just bought Addictive Synth after your recommendation, and it is excellent. It's a powerful synth that takes advantage of the iPad, being able modulate things by tilting the iPad around, and drawing waves on the touchscreen. I think anyone who is into synths could have loads of fun and creativity with Addictive Synth, and it's only five bucks! A comparable softsynth for the Mac and/or PC could be $100 - $200. Thanks for the tip.

 

 

HaHa. Just bought Addictive Synth on yours and Zoinks recommendation. For about the first 5 minutes, I honestly thought this thing was just plain goofy; that is until I started messing around with it and customizing the settings. Now I have to say that this really is a great little synth and well worth the 5 spot I laid down for it. I haven't bought Animoog yet, but so far, this is probably the best synth I've come across.