Yanks Sox

[riffy]

I guess, I am going to be the lone ORIOLE voice here:) I live and die with them and I have died a lot the past few years. We need another front line
starter and we aren't looking too bad. 2nd place right now 1 game back.

Yeah, I know it is still early but I can still dream right now!

[JBecker]

But where is Soriano now? Cano looked good last year, and I honestly haven't watched the Yanks this year, so I'm not sure where he's at now, but your GM needs to make sure that you don't unload these guys for some "mid-season veteran talent" like is par for the course lately.

 

 

The Soriano toss had a lot to do with difficulty managing him, from my understanding. The Yanks wanted to transition him to the outfield (which he eventually did elsewhere) and he wasn't having it. I hated trading him a way and I agree that's an example of bad Cashman moves, however, he's also a great example of the Yankee farm system at work. I can only hope Cashman realizes he's got a great second baseman in Cano and that really all of our position players (except maybe first) don't need to be touched. It's all about pitching, everything else we've got would be stupid to mess with.

[JBecker]

I guess, I am going to be the lone ORIOLE voice here:) I live and die with them and I have died a lot the past few years. We need another front line starter and we aren't looking too bad. 2nd place right now 1 game back. Yeah, I know it is still early but I can still dream right now!

 

 

Camden Yards is beautiful... but that's about as much as I can say about the Orioles...

[danyeo]

 

even when mussina and pavano and everyone comes off the DL, they have no relief guys and riveria is a dinosaur. the whole team is falling into that niche Arod had last season, theyre great until they enter a high pressure situation. the yankees have always had the mentality that every year has to be a championship year and anything else is unacceptable. a good mentality for a winning team, but when the talent is simply not there its a lost cause. they need to stop trading away prospects for vets to make a temporary fix and take a year or two to build a team up.

 

 

 

The Yanks still have a better bullpen than the Red Sox, Blue Jays, or any other team in the AL East. Check back with me in July when Rivera is unhittable, it's happens every year. Check his stats last year, pretty good for a dinosaur who was the Allstar game closer over guys like Nathan and Paplebomb.

 

I can live with everyone in the Yanks bullpen except for Farnsworth, He's a mess. The other guys will settle down. Proctor is ok despite last night. Bruney has been very good. Henn will get more work. And Joe just can't overuse Vizciano.

 

Once the starters comes back and get into the flow of things they will pitch more games into the 7th and 8th which will ease the pressure on the bullpen.

 

 

And on the Yankees trading away talent you can't be more wrong. DId they trade away Robinson Cano or Wang? Those 2 happen to be 2 of the best young players in baseball. They didn't trade them to get old big name/big money guys. Did the Yanks trade Melkey Cabrera or Philip Hughes? Those 2 guys are the future.

 

Look at Boston, how many guys on that team were bought compared to how many they brought up? They brought up Paplebomb, who else?

 

As soon as the Sox threw 100 million at Dice-K they can't cry about the salary anymore. They outspend everyone except for the Yankees anyway. It's like a 600lb guy calling a 700lb guy a fat ass.

[Weathered]

As soon as the Sox threw 100 million at Dice-K they can't cry about the salary anymore. They outspend everyone except for the Yankees anyway. It's like a 600lb guy calling a 700lb guy a fat ass.

 

 

Yep. Hence is the reason that I can't truly be a Sox fan now, either. They played the Yankees game, got a ring for it, and then tailed off last August and let the Tigers into the playoffs.

 

Theo is just a younger Steinbrenner, and the fact that they have such a rivalry is GREAT for baseball, but definitely doesn't bode well for payrolls around the league, even with the luxury tax. The Billy Beane's (the GM's who can make a team out of a low payroll) of the world are going to become less and less as salaries start to increase. Hell, Zito jumped ship for more money, and he was one of the best lefties in the AL last year.

[mikeyhc]

LOL!!! GO SOX!!!

[JBecker]

LOL!!! GO SOX!!!

Thanks for adding to the conversation! :thu:

[danyeo]

Thanks for adding to the conversation! :thu:

He's laughing because Dice-Gay got paid soo much to pitch lousy against the Yankees. Good thing for him that he was going against a guy who belongs in AAA.

And the best pitcher of the weekend was....*drumroll* ...Andy Pettitte.

[Blues In Me]

But where is Soriano now? Cano looked good last year, and I honestly haven't watched the Yanks this year, so I'm not sure where he's at now, but your GM needs to make sure that you don't unload these guys for some "mid-season veteran talent" like is par for the course lately.

 

 

 

Soriano was traded was A-Rod. Texas took Soriano and are paying $9m a year of Arod's salary. I would make that same deal again. Anyone who says they wouldn't doesn't know baseball. Soriano is a defensive liabilty and has no plate discipline. Arod is the most talented player in the game - hands down - and could be the best ever.

 

Cano is the real deal and could be a future batting champ. He hits to all fields, has a little pop and is a smooth defender at 2nd. Wang came in 2nd in the Cy Young voting last year. Cashman will not trade these guys. He'll call up Hughes long before he trades a decent prospect for mid-season pitching help.

 

I do believe the Sox have been the trade happy team in recent years though. Anabel Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez ring any bells? Andy Marte? I also believe the Yanks have more home grown talnet on their roster than Boston. (Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Henn, Proctor and Pettite to Paplebon and Pedroia???)

[danyeo]

Soriano was traded was A-Rod. Texas took Soriano and are paying $9m a year of Arod's salary. I would make that same deal again. Anyone who says they wouldn't doesn't know baseball. Soriano is a defensive liabilty and has no plate discipline. Arod is the most talented player in the game - hands down - and could be the best ever. Cano is the real deal and could be a future batting champ. He hits to all fields, has a little pop and is a smooth defender at 2nd. Wang came in 2nd in the Cy Young voting last year. Cashman will not trade these guys. He'll call up Hughes long before he trades a decent prospect for mid-season pitching help. I do believe the Sox have been the trade happy team in recent years though. Anabel Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez ring any bells? Andy Marte? I also believe the Yanks have more home grown talnet on their roster than Boston. (Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Henn, Proctor and Pettite to Paplebon and Pedroia???)

 

 

 

Since Boston was knocked out of the playoffs last year it was expected that they were going to spend some dough. But letting Damon go was a huge mistake on their part, Coco Crisp has been a bust. The Yankees aren't paying that much more than what Boston offered for him.

[mysticaxe]

It was a good series. 3 games in April don't mean squat (pretty much). It's way too early for the "June Swoon."

You say that Rivera will be better in a month or so, which I agree with. I will counter with ARod can't keep up this pace - not going to happen. Pettitte was very hittable last year, plus he always pitches well against the Sox. Mussina is getting old. Pavano is a "I had a great year once" type of guy. Wang is the only starter that really concerns me this year. The guys in the minors may come up and do well, but they will likely hit a wall, or have plenty of bad games too.

On the Sox side. They have 5 good to solid starters (including Lester, who should be in the rotation in a month or so). Dice-K had an off day - no one else has those? Drew is hot, and probably won't keep it up, but Manny hasn't done anything yet this year (until the homer last night). Papelbon is the real deal - as good as, if not better than Rivera. His ERA last year was well below 2.00.

Twins - not enough pitching. How many teams has Russ Ortiz pitched on the last 5 years? Exactly...

Tigers - flash in the pan - too much dependence on breakout seasons last year.

White Sox - I actually think they have the best shot in the AL outside of Boston/NY.

[Weathered]

But letting Damon go was a huge mistake on their part, Coco Crisp has been a bust.

 

 

Yep - Damon was a sparkplug for the Boston offense, and with him gone, you end up relying on the longball from Big Papi and Manny, and they are only going to hit 40-50 each per year, which only counts (at most) for 100 games. Where are those other runs going to come from?

[Weathered]

Twins - not enough pitching. How many teams has Russ Ortiz pitched on the last 5 years? Exactly...

 

 

Keep in mind the second half that the Twins had last year at the end of the year when Liriano was hurt.

 

Our rotation at that time consisted of Santana, broken-shoulder Radke, Boof Bonser, Matt Garza, and a Carlos Silva that couldn't keep his sinker in the ballpark. This year, Silva has looked very good, as has Ortiz, Ponson has looked both very good and very miserable (sometimes in the same game), and Matt Garza has yet to pitch in the majors despite posting a less than 2.00 ERA in spring training.

 

....plus our bullpen aren't slouches, at all.

 

I think that the Twins are OK on the pitching front, despite the journeymen that we have got on the staff.

[mysticaxe]

I do believe the Sox have been the trade happy team in recent years though. Anabel Sanchez and Hanley Ramirez ring any bells? Andy Marte? I also believe the Yanks have more home grown talnet on their roster than Boston. (Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Wang, Cano, Cabrera, Henn, Proctor and Pettite to Paplebon and Pedroia???)

 

 

I still say it remains to be seen whether dealing Sanchez and Ramirez for Beckett was a mistake. Marte was on the team for a week, but Crisp doesn't look like much in return for him...

 

Youkilis and Varitek (was still in the minors when acquired from Seattle, I think) are also home-grown. Lester will be back in the rotation by mid-summer - he's homegrown. A couple of the other guys on the NY list are fringe contributors at this point - Henn, Melky (only really playing because of Matsui), and Proctor.

[bonchie]

The Yankees had all 3 of those games won.

Until they get over having the greatest lineup ever and start spending some money on pitching, they aren't going to sniff the WS though.

[mysticaxe]

But letting Damon go was a huge mistake on their part.

 

 

+1 that was the consensus around here - WTF, pay the guy!! I think the difference was about $2 million a year... aka 750 Herberts! Or 1300 JVMs...

[mysticaxe]

Keep in mind the second half that the Twins had last year at the end of the year when Liriano was hurt. Our rotation at that time consisted of Santana, broken-shoulder Radke, Boof Bonser, Matt Garza, and a Carlos Silva that couldn't keep his sinker in the ballpark. This year, Silva has looked very good, as has Ortiz, Ponson has looked both very good and very miserable (sometimes in the same game), and Matt Garza has yet to pitch in the majors despite posting a less than 2.00 ERA in spring training. ....plus our bullpen aren't slouches, at all. I think that the Twins are OK on the pitching front, despite the journeymen that we have got on the staff.

 

 

I'll agree on the bullpen. Garza has the upside to be a great pitcher. I just have a hard time taking Ponson and Ortiz seriously after their last few years. I do love seeing smaller market teams win - I grew up a big Tigers and Reds fan (made the 90s pretty tough), and the Twins are on to something right now.

[Weathered]

I'll agree on the bullpen. Garza has the upside to be a great pitcher. I just have a hard time taking Ponson and Ortiz seriously after their last few years. I do love seeing smaller market teams win - I grew up a big Tigers and Reds fan (made the 90s pretty tough), and the Twins are on to something right now.

 

 

Personally (and I don't live and die Twins, but I love baseball), I think that the Twins have done things the right way, and will probably get a ring sometime during the reign of Santana/Mauer/Morneau (provided they can get past the first round of the playoffs).

 

Ponson is a huge question mark, and he needs to keep his sinker down, especially when you play in the Giant Hefty Bag, but Ortiz might have found the right pitching coach in Anderson.

[Blues In Me]

I still say it remains to be seen whether dealing Sanchez and Ramirez for Beckett was a mistake. Marte was on the team for a week, but Crisp doesn't look like much in return for him... Youkilis and Varitek (was still in the minors when acquired from Seattle, I think) are also home-grown. Lester will be back in the rotation by mid-summer - he's homegrown. A couple of the other guys on the NY list are fringe contributors at this point - Henn, Melky (only really playing because of Matsui), and Proctor.

 

 

Melky played almost the entire season last year and played very well. If the OF wasn't as loaded as it is he would be a fulltime player. Proctor has already pitched in 12 of 17 games this year and led the majors in appearances last year. If you are counting them as fringe then you have to throw Pedroia and Lester in that mix too.

 

My point is that everyone claims the Yankees have all hired guns on their roster and their farm system is depleted and that is just untrue.

[Blues In Me]

Personally (and I don't live and die Twins, but I love baseball), I think that the Twins have done things the right way, and will probably get a ring sometime during the reign of Santana/Mauer/Morneau (provided they can get past the first round of the playoffs). Ponson is a huge question mark, and he needs to keep his sinker down, especially when you play in the Giant Hefty Bag, but Ortiz might have found the right pitching coach in Anderson.

 

 

 

I think the Twins have a good team too. I'd be a little leary about Ponson and Ortiz. Their past is definitely not working in their favor. We'll see though, they may surprise everyone. That's why we play the games.

[JBecker]

On the Sox side. They have 5 good to solid starters (including Lester, who should be in the rotation in a month or so). Dice-K had an off day - no one else has those? Drew is hot, and probably won't keep it up, but Manny hasn't done anything yet this year (until the homer last night). Papelbon is the real deal - as good as, if not better than Rivera. His ERA last year was well below 2.00. White Sox - I actually think they have the best shot in the AL outside of Boston/NY.

 

 

I think it's a little generous to simply toss it out as Dice-K had an off day. He hasn't been the show stopping, unhittable kind of guy he should be for the price and pomp and circumstance and I don't think he was so off last night. Despite having a hard time throwing inside and pegging 2 batters, his locations were dead on, the one time I was watching close and saw him toss that "gyroball" it was nasty, he was throwing 97mpg fastballs-- the guy was on his game. His game is simply hittable if the other team is on their game as well. Dice-K is solid as hell and I'd lvoe to have him on my team, but he's not going to be The Man, and he isn't The Man. I also think Papelbon is the real deal and will be (if not already) a better closer than Mariano. I just don't see the Sox as having better starting pitching than the Yanks if the Yanks don't have four guys on the DL, I think you have a similar situation-- a few solid guys and a couple of wild guys (in terms of one night it's fine and magic out of nowhere, the next its' getting beat out of the game).

[danyeo]

It was a good series. 3 games in April don't mean squat (pretty much). It's way too early for the "June Swoon." You say that Rivera will be better in a month or so, which I agree with. I will counter with ARod can't keep up this pace - not going to happen. Pettitte was very hittable last year, plus he always pitches well against the Sox. Mussina is getting old. Pavano is a "I had a great year once" type of guy. Wang is the only starter that really concerns me this year. The guys in the minors may come up and do well, but they will likely hit a wall, or have plenty of bad games too. On the Sox side. They have 5 good to solid starters (including Lester, who should be in the rotation in a month or so). Dice-K had an off day - no one else has those? Drew is hot, and probably won't keep it up, but Manny hasn't done anything yet this year (until the homer last night). Papelbon is the real deal - as good as, if not better than Rivera. His ERA last year was well below 2.00. Twins - not enough pitching. How many teams has Russ Ortiz pitched on the last 5 years? Exactly... Tigers - flash in the pan - too much dependence on breakout seasons last year. White Sox - I actually think they have the best shot in the AL outside of Boston/NY.

 

 

One thing about Pettitte. He had a slow start last year but down the stretch he was one of the best pitchers in the National league and he almost pitched the Astros into the playoffs, his stats are deceptive. In August and September he was as good as Oswalt i believe. I remember last year wishing we had him. Torre should have left him in on Friday, he looked like he could have pitched the whole game and the Sox couldn't touch him afer those 2 runs.

 

Here's the Yankees top 3 starters later this year. Wang, Pettitte, Clemens. And hopefully we shall see Philip Hughes who is being touted as a phenom. He's only 20 and the Yankees just don't want to bring him up yet.

 

 

 

Schilling is still the guy who scares me because he gets up for the big games. I don't know what to expect from Beckett or Wakefield. I wonder if the Jays lineup is going to wake up although Glauss is hurt but Frank Thomas isn't hitting at all.

 

The Tigers to me still look like the team to beat with their 3 young pitchers.

[danyeo]

DId you guys hear. Philip Hughes is being brought up THIS WEEK and is pitching against Toronto. Can't wait to see how the kid does.

But you know, the guys who still complain about how the Yanks spend money, trade away everything, and buy champoionships have no idea who Hughes is.

[mysticaxe]

Hughes is in the rotation this week. We'll see how he does. He'll be lucky to live up to all the hype that has started about him. I've never complained about the Yankees (or Red Sox, for that matter) strategy. I just think football has it right - everyone has a chance to compete on a more even playing field. I'm just more impressed by the Tigers, Twins, and A's who can compete with a much lower payroll.

I'm thinking that Schilling is going to run out of gas later in the year. He doesn't have the stamina he used to. If he was smart, he'd start doing the Clemens 2/3 season thing. It's tough to be a power pitcher with a 93 mph fastball - just ask Pedro. The Sox will go as far as Beckett/DiceK will take them.

The Tigers young pitching can be a factor, but they sure as hell won't sneak up on anyone this year. Hopefully Sheffield can have a decent season for them. I don't trust Todd Jones at the end of games - seen him too many years in Colorado and Boston where he bombed.

[Blues In Me]

Hughes is in the rotation this week. We'll see how he does. He'll be lucky to live up to all the hype that has started about him. I've never complained about the Yankees (or Red Sox, for that matter) strategy. I just think football has it right - everyone has a chance to compete on a more even playing field. I'm just more impressed by the Tigers, Twins, and A's who can compete with a much lower payroll. I'm thinking that Schilling is going to run out of gas later in the year. He doesn't have the stamina he used to. If he was smart, he'd start doing the Clemens 2/3 season thing. It's tough to be a power pitcher with a 93 mph fastball - just ask Pedro. The Sox will go as far as Beckett/DiceK will take them. The Tigers young pitching can be a factor, but they sure as hell won't sneak up on anyone this year. Hopefully Sheffield can have a decent season for them. I don't trust Todd Jones at the end of games - seen him too many years in Colorado and Boston where he bombed.

 

 

At this point I think the Yankees will be happy w/ a quality start and some length out of Hughes. Their pen is spent and needs a couple days off.

 

Keep in mind that the Yanks and Sox are also sending a lot of money to those lower revenue teams. Most of whom can afford a much higher payroll but choose not to. Tampa Bay only spend what they receive in revenue sharing for example. For years Detroit was the biggest offender of this practice. That's just not right.