Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 15, 2009 Members Share Posted October 15, 2009 Wait... I thought on your page you said you had to recreate the gate arrays, too... couldn't you add that capability? :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 15, 2009 Members Share Posted October 15, 2009 So... it seems there are no DSS-1's on the 'Bay right now. Not that I'm looking or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 There's a few on Craigslist... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Oh? Either I suck at search, or there's none near me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChristianRock Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 No, not near you. I usually do a nationwide list and try my best to guess if the seller is legit. That's how I got my EX-8000, some guy from Ohio shipped it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Feh! Anyway: This is an awesome development, and everyone should upgrade their DSS-1. I give it 2 paws up. :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Wait... I thought on your page you said you had to recreate the gate arrays, too... couldn't you add that capability? :poke: That was on Tom's page - He re-created the added page select gate array for the extended memory (GA4). The DSS-1 already had the DMA arbitration gate array (GAI), the two DMA address gate arrays (GAII), plus two master timing gate arrays (GAIII) - All on the KLM-782 board. My name is Jim, I'm the one with the source code to this upgrade. Tom is selling the kits, I'm just doing the software updates for fun. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members uvacom-rotatt Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 You are exactly correct, that is the problem. The gate arrays that contain the DMA address registers do not allow for the CPU to read back the playback address. If they did, I could just have the software avoid the problem. I could modulate just the Loop Start fairly easily, but that would change the pitch of the sound, so that probably isn't very useful.-Jim That is tricky. Off the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind as a workaround would be to pad the memory with many loop end markers after the first one - enough so that the playback address will always fall in the "loop end pad" if it exceeds the "real" marker (the number of sequential markers needed determined by the modulation depth), but that is a waste of memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tvirostek Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Just wanted to add my two cents and answer some questions. First, none of this would be possible without Jim's hard and generous work on this project. It's his software (and hardware) that's enabled the SCSI, USB, extra memory, and enhanced floppy support. This project has been almost 23 years in the making!! The price of the upgrade involves free installation and testing if the DSS-1 (or just the PC boards) are sent to me. Not that a lot of you aren't capable of doing the upgrade but I've gone through it several times and have the tools and information to deal with problems if they crop up. Also as Jim pointed out, I redid the bank select chip which was an add-on to the original DSS-1. The custom hardware in the DSS limits a lot of what can and can't be done as far as altering the way the sample playback works. The same goes for the VCF's and signal path. Most of the modification is focused on enhancing and expanding the data storage options and memory. But suggestions are always welcome. We'll let you know if a certain feature or idea can be implemented or not. I currently have six modified DSS-1's that I'll be selling on ebay shortly, starting in the next couple of weeks. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ElectricPuppy Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Well at any rate, congratulations and kudos to both of you for making this happen! Very nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 That is tricky. Off the top of my head, the only thing that comes to mind as a workaround would be to pad the memory with many loop end markers after the first one - enough so that the playback address will always fall in the "loop end pad" if it exceeds the "real" marker (the number of sequential markers needed determined by the modulation depth), but that is a waste of memory. We have plenty of memory - 64 times a stock DSS-1, but there are no markers of any kind in memory, just sound values. The Loop End address is a register in the gate array that gets compared to the playback address, and when they match, the Loop Start address gets loaded instead of address+1. There is only one register per oscillator. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members able Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Man this stuff is over my head now. EP, I grabbed the board and cleaned it up. It is in as nice a shape as you'll find nowadays. powers on and the drive runs a moment upon startup. I think she's ok. I'm a gonna list it tonight if you want one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members able Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 Dangit! Did'nt see Tom's post up there. Well anyway I'll list it tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members uvacom-rotatt Posted October 16, 2009 Members Share Posted October 16, 2009 We have plenty of memory - 64 times a stock DSS-1, but there are no markers of any kind in memory, just sound values. The Loop End address is a register in the gate array that gets compared to the playback address, and when they match, the Loop Start address gets loaded instead of address+1. There is only one register per oscillator. -Jim Oh hell, I thought I was on to something. Well, it definitely sounds like this would require a hardware revision of the gate array. That's too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 17, 2009 Members Share Posted October 17, 2009 UPDATE: New features now implemented in version 3.9: PORTAMENTO - Implemented as 'auto' Portamento, where the first key played is normal, and subsequent keys played (with a previous key held down) 'auto bend' from the previous note. The parameter 'auto bend time' controls the speed. Auto Bend Time can also be assigned to one of the 3 sliders. Note that just like pitch bend, there is a limit on the DSS-1 as to the maximum 'Bend Up' that can be applied to a sample, such that the maximum playback rate does not exceed 64KHz. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 21, 2009 Members Share Posted October 21, 2009 So... it seems there are no DSS-1's on the 'Bay right now. Not that I'm looking or anything... One just went up, If you want to look again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShakaCthulu Posted October 22, 2009 Members Share Posted October 22, 2009 I've a question...do you have to convert to DSS1 format to use the USB transfer, or does it automatically convert the files to the proper format...used to be that the old Turtlebeach SampleVision was the only app capable of converting to DSS1 format. Also, if this run is a success, will you be doing more kits? Oops, that was two questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 22, 2009 Members Share Posted October 22, 2009 I've a question...do you have to convert to DSS1 format to use the USB transfer, or does it automatically convert the files to the proper format...used to be that the old Turtlebeach SampleVision was the only app capable of converting to DSS1 format.Also, if this run is a success, will you be doing more kits?Oops, that was two questions. I'm not sure I understand which files you are talking about. Anything that you have on a floppy can still be loaded into the DSS-1, then saved to the USB drive. Any needed conversion is done automatically. The system exclusive midi commands are still the same, so any software that used them will still work. There are actually 3 types of files: 1) System files (.DS1) now contain 128 program settings where the floppies had 4 system files (A-D), each containing 32 program settings. You can just do a 'Get System - All' from the floppy, which will load all 4 into memory, then do a 'Save System' to USB which will create the single .DS1 file. Likewise, you can combine systems from up to 4 floppies, for example 'Get System - A' from one disk, then swap floppies and 'Get / Add System - A' from the next disk, etc. The 'Save System' to USB then saves whatever is in memory at the time. 2) DSS1 MultiSound files (.DMS): Each multisound is stored in it's own file, and the format is 16 bit such that it can DMA directly into memory for much faster speed. On the floppy, these files had a .WTB extension and were in a 12 bit packed format. Multisounds can be loaded or saved individually, plus All the multisounds used in a system are automatically loaded or saved along with that system. A single Multisound file can be shared by multiple Systems. 3) Sound files (.WAV): All individual sound files are stored in standard 16 bit .WAV format. This includes any samples created on the DSS-1 (by sampling, harmonic synthesis, or hand drawing). Likewise, the Multisound menu lets you combine up to 16 sound files into a single Multisound. These sound files can come from any source that can save in .WAV format. The files do need to be mono and in one of the 4 sample rates that the DSS-1 supports (16K, 24K, 32K, or 48K). I have successfully used the free software 'Audacity' to convert from other format files. Since the USB drive is always in DOS FAT format, and sub directories are supported, it is easy to use a PC to arrange or archive the files. The biggest debate will be what naming convention to use, since the Vinculum module limits file names to 8.3 format (long file names are not supported). Tom will have to answer your second question, but from his web site: There will only be 25 of the original rev of boards. A complete redesign is in progress, which will make more use of programmable logic, which translates to a smaller board and lower cost. So I expect the answer is yes. -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ShakaCthulu Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 I'm not sure I understand which files you are talking about. Anything that you have on a floppy can still be loaded into the DSS-1, then saved to the USB drive. Any needed conversion is done automatically. The system exclusive midi commands are still the same, so any software that used them will still work. Thanks, you answered my question. I was referring to transferring .wav files from PC to the DSS-1. And FAT...yay! You guys have brought the DSS-1 into VSynth territory. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 27, 2009 Members Share Posted October 27, 2009 Would anyone be interested in the file formats for the System or Multisound files? If so, I would be happy to provide them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members juno6 Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 My name is Jim, I'm the one with the source code to this upgrade. Tom is selling the kits, I'm just doing the software updates for fun. -Jim Hi Jim, I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jbabb Posted October 29, 2009 Members Share Posted October 29, 2009 2) one voice monophonic mode. Unison mode is for playing monophonic. You can also set the amount of detune, and the number of voices used. The cleanest sound is detune = 1 and number of voices = 2. What else would you want? -Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChipCurtis Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 1) free running oscillators. As on the ESQ and DW8000, or any analogue, it would be great to have this, specially on single cycle waveforms for a more analogue feel. What is the benefit of having free-running DCO or PCM oscillators anyway? I figured only VCOs are beneficial in this respect, because the voltage level is always fluctuating. What's the benefit in doing this on a static PCM waveforms? I owned a DW8000 for 20 years and the DSS1 for 6 years, with 3 yrs overlap between the two. I never thought the DW had a more analog feel than the DSS; in fact it feels to me the other way around; the DSS seems capable of a lot fatter, warmer and organic type sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members juno6 Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 Unison mode is for playing monophonic. You can also set the amount of detune, and the number of voices used. The cleanest sound is detune = 1 and number of voices = 2. What else would you want? -Jim Unison is 2 4 6 or 8 voices playing at the same time, classic monophonic mode is like a monosynth, that is: just ONE voice. The DSS doesn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members juno6 Posted October 30, 2009 Members Share Posted October 30, 2009 What is the benefit of having free-running DCO or PCM oscillators anyway? I figured only VCOs are beneficial in this respect, because the voltage level is always fluctuating. What's the benefit in doing this on a static PCM waveforms?I owned a DW8000 for 20 years and the DSS1 for 6 years, with 3 yrs overlap between the two. I never thought the DW had a more analog feel than the DSS; in fact it feels to me the other way around; the DSS seems capable of a lot fatter, warmer and organic type sounds. There Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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