Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 I'm stuck. So whats happening on this assignment is where given a Major accending scale and we have to convert into an accending natural, harmonic, and melodic minor scale. I'm given a Bb Major scale. The natural relative minor natural scale is Gb Minor (This is where I'm stuck) The harmonic relative minor is Gb minor scale with the 7th (F in this sitaution) raised by 1/2 step. The only thing is that Gb minor is a flat scale, so how do I transcribe raising F to F# without using a sharp? But also without using the same note twice (e.g. Gb then G). Edit: Is it common/acceptable to use a double flat? For example use Gb instead of F#, and then transcribe G by using Abb (A -double Flat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rear Naked Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 just reading the instructions, i could just write the new minor scales starting at Bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 You are confused because the relative Minor scale of Bb Major is G Minor. You have 2 Flats in Bb Major. Bb and Eb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 just reading the instructions, i could just write the new minor scales starting at Bb The point of the assignment is to identify the relative minor and then writing out that natural, harmonic and melodic relative minor scale. The scales with sharps are easy, I'm just having trouble with the raising of the 6th and/or 7th in a flat scale, since your not suppose to mix accidentals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Also In Diatonic modes I cant think of a scale or mode that would require a double flat however I believe that double flats are more acceptable than double sharps...but then again if you are constructing you scales appropriately you';; rarely see them until you get into modes of the Harmonic and Melodic minors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 You are confused because the relative Minor scale of Bb Major is G Minor. You have 2 Flats in Bb Major. Bb and Eb. Woops, I guess I did say Gb minor, my mistake. So as far as writing the harmonic G minor scale, how do I raise the 7th ( the F note in this case) without using a sharp? Can you write out the notes of the G minor harmonic scale for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Also In Diatonic modes I cant think of a scale or mode that would require a double flat however I believe that double flats are more acceptable than double sharps...but then again if you are constructing you scales appropriately you';; rarely see them until you get into modes of the Harmonic and Melodic minors. Ah yes, that is where I am at, not only do I have to find the natural relative minor to Bb, but I also have to find the harmonic and melodic scales of that relative minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 F would become F# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 F would become F# But G minor is a flat scale and you can mix accidentals, or does it not matter when it comes to harmonic and melodic scales? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members logansc Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 double flats are used in some keys, but you don't need one for G. You don't want to use the same notes twice so if something is a sharp and you used the note already go up and make a flat and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ahh...don't get too caught up in that. Only stuffy {censored}s and professors will kick you for that..If you proved the relative minor and you need to raised the interval degree according to the formula then you do it. Think how {censored}ed up the C# Whole tone scale must look on staff!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 My main problem is this.... G minor is a flat scale. When making the G minor harmonic scale, by rasing the 7th you now have a sharp in a flat scale. (The only way I would think the rule would change about not mixing sharps with flats is when the key signature indicates the flats, so technically they arent shown on the notes themselves, making it ok to have a sharp) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dewysoss Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 I need to stop coming into these threads. My brain hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ahh...don't get too caught up in that. Only stuffy {censored}s and professors will kick you for that..If you proved the relative minor and you need to raised the interval degree according to the formula then you do it. Think how {censored}ed up the C# Whole tone scale must look on staff!!Ahh, lol, I guess we shall give my teacher the test to see if she is a "stuffy {censored}" or not. {censored} it, it's only hw, I'll just throw in the sharp. If she wants it done a different way I'll know for the exam. Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members logansc Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 My main problem is this....G minor is a flat scale.When making the G minor harmonic scale, by rasing the 7th you now have a sharp in a flat scale.(The only way I would think the rule would change about not mixing sharps with flats is when the key signature indicates the flats, so technically they arent shown on the notes themselves, making it ok to have a sharp) IF you're teachers like mine then no mixy the sharps and flats ever! Refer to post above, if you don't get how to not mix still. and as for the cucumber man we have to write out c# like that and read it that way. I really don't like C #!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ok last question, I hope. When writing the G minor melodic scale. Do I transcribe the 6th with a natural sign? Seeing as the 6th in the G minor scale is flat, and rasing it would make it natural? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 double flats are used in some keys, but you don't need one for G. You don't want to use the same notes twice so if something is a sharp and you used the note already go up and make a flat and vice versa.So the 'proper' way to write the G minor harmonic scale would be what? Can you please write out the notes?I think it would be G A Bb C D Eb Gb and Abb ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members logansc Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 So the 'proper' way to write the G minor harmonic scale would be what? Can you please write out the notes? I think it would be G A Bb C D Eb Gb and Abb ??? alright i'll take the time to do it for you.G harmonic minor would beG A Bb C D Eb Gb and then you start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 no, you just right a regular note, it's not like scales have key signatures, you are very confused.. I guess its the way the book presents it because it is showing me the Bb Major scale with the key signature then has 3 empty measures where I'm supposed to be writing the natural, harmonic, and melodic; all three measures with the same key signature as the Bb major scale was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 See its not that hard ...actually its a total pain in the ass until you get your head around it. You will....wait till you start stacking triads for the Minor modes....ugh.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Thanks for your guys' help btw, much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members logansc Posted September 27, 2007 Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 See its not that hard ...actually its a total pain in the ass until you get your head around it. You will....wait till you start stacking triads for the Minor modes....ugh.. we're just getting into mode stuff in my class. It confuses the hell out of me, but I know it is for my own good. And if it's stuff that's gonna be graded just use the internet when you have too, you need to be able to understand the stuff, but you can type in any scale on google and get it if you're short on time. It will also explain how its made, other names for it, etc. I would try and understand it though for tests and questions and you're own advancement in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sigel_TTD Posted September 27, 2007 Author Members Share Posted September 27, 2007 Ugh, so when making the G minor melodic scale, its G A Bb C D Eb(b) Gb. And alas, I am confused again, Ebb is the same as D. So do you write it G A Bb C D Gb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Theory is totally useless unless its applied. It gets fun once you start to apply it in context. Back when I was in music college the only way I could retain scales and built progressions was to play them on my guitar...to get the sound in my head...it was quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NixerX Posted September 28, 2007 Members Share Posted September 28, 2007 Ugh, so when making the G minor melodic scale, its G A Bb C D Eb(b) Gb. And alas, I am confused again, Ebb is the same as D. So do you write it G A Bb C D Gb? Here bro..check this out: http://cnx.org/content/m10856/latest/ See normally one of those flats on E double flat is going to be in the key sig since you are writing in Bb. know what I mean? No problem for helping. Its a nice refresher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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