OT: Need Some Help With My Music HW (Major/Minor Scales)

[EvilMeow]

 

I guess its the way the book presents it because it is showing me the Bb Major scale with the key signature then has 3 empty measures where I'm supposed to be writing the natural, harmonic, and melodic; all three measures with the same key signature as the Bb major scale was given.

 

 

If you have a key signature, and the you have to raise the sixth (which happens to already have a flat in it), then yes, just use a natural sign.

 

Just remember, it's not "Sharp the note," it's "raise the note"

[Sigel_TTD]

If you have a key signature, and the you have to raise the sixth (which happens to already have a flat in it), then yes, just use a natural sign. Just remember, it's not "Sharp the note," it's "raise the note"

Ah got it.

So the Melodic G Minor Scale is G A Bb C D E (natural) and Gb?

Is it just me, or is it incorrect to have two notes on the same line of the staff when dealing with scales? For example Gb and G are on the same line (though one is notated by a flat), I could be terribly wrong.

[EvilMeow]

 

Ah got it. So the Melodic G Minor Scale is G A Bb C D E (natural) and Gb? Is it just me, or is it incorrect to have two notes on the same line of the staff when dealing with scales?

 

 

 

You never want to have the same letter name appear twice in a scale.

[Sigel_TTD]

You never want to have the same letter name appear twice in a scale.

 

 

Does this apply to sharps and flats as well or no? For example is it ok to have Gb and G in the same scale? In the G minor harmonic scale doesnt that occur? You have Gb and G according to logansc.

[Uncle_Milton]

[EvilMeow]

 

For example is it ok to have Gb and G in the same scale? In the G minor harmonic scale doesnt that occur? You have Gb and G according to logansc.

 

 

 

Not okay at all:

 

G A Bb C D Eb F# G

That's the scale.

 

(g minor is one of two flat key signatures that requires a sharp for the leading tone. d minor is the other one. This isn't important info however.)

 

 

Look, for harmonic minor, just think of it this way:

 

Natural Minor = starts on sixth scale degree of its relative major.

 

Harmonic minor = Natural minor in every way except a raised seventh degree. You'd take whatever you have for the seventh scale degree, whether it's sharp, flat or natural, and raise it one half step. That means if you have no accidental, put a sharp on it, if it's already flat, then give it a natural sign. If it's already sharp, it's a doublesharp. It's as simple as that.

 

Melodic minor, of course, is a raised sixth AND seventh, ascending. Descending, the scale is just like natural minor.

 

 

Do not ever, under any circumstances, ever ever ever ever ever, if you are building a major or minor scale, reuse a letter. Period. Don't do it. CDEFGAB. C#D#E#F#G#A#B#.

 

It doesn't matter if B# happens to be C. That's just an enharmonic spelling. Drill this in your head and NEVER FORGET IT. "Don't reuse letters."

 

You will find out later why this is the case, when you start building chords from the scale degrees.

[therabbit]

Listen to EvilMeow and ignore Sigel_TTD!

G harmonic minor using Gb for the 7th degree?

[therabbit]

Looking at your original post you don't say to use the relative minor in the instructions. I know some teachers would have you convert Bb major into Bb natural, melodic and harmonic minor. Did you just not mention the relative minor bit in the instructions.

[EvilMeow]

 

Looking at your original post you don't say to use the relative minor in the instructions. I know some teachers would have you convert Bb major into Bb natural, melodic and harmonic minor. Did you just not mention the relative minor bit in the instructions.

 

 

 

Yeah, until I got used to it I would always build minor scales from their relative major. It's just easier until you really "own" your theory and use it in practice a lot.

 

 

Also, I'd like to add that once you get into studying common practice stuff, you will RARELY RARELY RARELY RARELY ever see anything other than harmonic minor, because it maintains the major tonic to dominant relationship within the key.

 

So know your harmonic minor and own it.

 

 

 

P.S. It's nice to see theory questions here, I have to say. It's been about a year since I've taken any kind of common practice theory course, but I'm a composition major anyway, so I use this stuff every day (and massacre all the rules daily in my compositions, of course).

[TheAmazingBlob]

Yes, you can definitely use doublesharps and doubleflats, but you almost never see them, and in this case you don't need one.

[Sigel_TTD]

So I had class today and had a chance to talk with my teacher. If anyone here is still wondering, my teacher told me to use F#.

This is because when dealing with melodic and harmonic scales, they have no corresponding key signatures so, in this case, its ok to mix accidentals.

[therabbit]

 

So I had class today and had a chance to talk with my teacher. If anyone here is still wondering, my teacher told me to use F#. This is because when dealing with melodic and harmonic scales, they have no corresponding key signatures so, in this case, its ok to mix accidentals.

 

 

1. What accidentals are being mixed? Do you mean F natural and F#?

 

2. Sure they have corresponding key sigs. G harmonic minor uses the Bb major sig then raises the 7th (F#) for the chords built on the 5th and 7th degrees of the scale so the chord built on the 5th degree (D) becomes a major/minor 7th (aka dominant 7th) and the chord built on the 7th degree (now F#) is fully diminished (F#-A-C-Eb)

 

The key sig thing gets really screwy if you're looking at modes before this system of tonality was really developed though.

[RebelShredmojo]

the sharp and flat in the same scale is alright if its an accidental

because once you write it out on the staff, you'd identify the key as G minor, but you'd see the raised 7th (and you will quite a bit..probably more so than natural minor). I.E. you'd only see the Bb and Eb in the key sig, but then your gonna see F# in every V chord.

you'll see mixed accidentals frequently in chromatic harmony, I think they frown upon it in diatonic stuff...but it'd be absurd to have to write it out as Abb harmonic minor


{censored}, I haven't a harmony class in 3 years, I can't believe i remember all this.

[logansc]

in diatonic stuff mixy is a no no, I though it was diatonic, my bad.

[therabbit]

G harmonic minor would be G A Bb C D Eb Gb and then you start over.

 

 

So, you're going pass over that post by just claiming you thought it had to be diatonic. Sorry, that was just wrong.

[logansc]

So, you're going pass over that post by just claiming you thought it had to be diatonic. Sorry, that was just wrong.

 

 

well that was G harmonic minor. Diatonic or not. I didn't think it had to be just that I thought it was. That's just how my theory class has progressed, and I would have never thought it not to be. but whatever.

[Sigel_TTD]

1. What accidentals are being mixed? Do you mean F natural and F#? 2. Sure they have corresponding key sigs. G harmonic minor uses the Bb major sig then raises the 7th (F#) for the chords built on the 5th and 7th degrees of the scale so the chord built on the 5th degree (D) becomes a major/minor 7th (aka dominant 7th) and the chord built on the 7th degree (now F#) is fully diminished (F#-A-C-Eb) The key sig thing gets really screwy if you're looking at modes before this system of tonality was really developed though.

 

 

1. What I meant was having a sharp and flat in the same scale (ex. F# and Eb )

 

2. At least for what were doing in this class, my teacher said that melodic and harmonic scales dont have an assigned or corresponding key signature. What you have stated is true, but will you ever see "b #" as a key signature on a piece of sheet music or staff?