Your preference as a songwriter; McCartney or Lennon?

[Mister Zero]

Originally posted by PFB Paul did the drum solo in The End on Abbey Road, do you think he fully trusted Ringo?

 

 

Nope, this is clearly Ringo and has never been stated to be anything otherwise.

 

Paul drums on 2 Beatles tracks: Back in the USSR and Ballad of John and Yoko.

[Gretta]

Wouldn't even begin to go into the nuances of songwriting ability, but Paul is cuter! And I have more of his solo albums.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by Vatican Take Revolver for example, he only has two songs, but they are the only ones that really stand out on either side of the album.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I often am), but wasn't Revolver's list something like this -

 

Taxman - George

Eleanor Rigby - Paul

Love You To - George

I'm Only Sleeping - John

Tomorrow Never Knows - John

Yellow Submarine - John/Ringo

Got To Get You Into My Life - Paul

For No One - Paul

Good Day Sunshine - Paul

And Your Bird Can Sing - John

I Want To Tell You - John

Here, There And Everywhere - John (maybe John/Paul, not sure)

Doctor Robert - John

She Said, She Said - John

 

I'm dead sure there were more John songs than Paul's on the album, and certainly more than 2.

[SteveBasser]

Originally posted by Sherinian gonnabe Correct me if I'm wrong (as I often am), but wasn't Revolver's list something like this - Taxman - George Eleanor Rigby - Paul Love You To - George I'm Only Sleeping - John Tomorrow Never Knows - John Yellow Submarine - John/Ringo Got To Get You Into My Life - Paul For No One - Paul Good Day Sunshine - Paul And Your Bird Can Sing - John I Want To Tell You - John Here, There And Everywhere - John (maybe John/Paul, not sure) Doctor Robert - John She Said, She Said - John I'm dead sure there were more John songs than Paul's on the album, and certainly more than 2.

You are correct, although the order as a bit ascew. The thing is, in the 'good ol' days' there were two different versions of Revolver- The British version and the American version. On the American version "And You Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert", and "I'm Only Sleeping" are all omitted. Once they were made available on CD, though, the British version became the only version.

In the US they would try to squeeze more $$ out of the public by yanking songs from the British versions and putting them on a "year end, best of" type album. The songs that were omitted on the US version of Revolver can be found on the album- "Yesterday and Today", which also contained songs that were omitted from the US versions of "Rubber Soul" and "Help". This practice ended with the release of "Sgt. Pepper's..." which had the same version released everywhere.

Oh, and BTW- "I Want to Tell You" would be a George Harrison song.

[SteveBasser]

Originally posted by Grubgoat Yes, and no matter how cool the little song snippets are, George Martin is responsible for the Abbey Road medley; that WHOLE SIDE is pretty much considered THE classic side in rock history. Without Martin's arrangment and vision, it might have been what critics always say the White Album is, just a mish-mash of songs and personalities...

 

 

Actually, George Martin had less to do with the Abby Road Medley than you might think. Songs like "Mean Mr. Mustard", "Her Majesty" and "She Came In Through the Bathroom Window" were pre-arranged and performed live as the medley. Her Majesty was later edited out and ended up on the end of the album.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by SteveBasser You are correct, although the order as a bit ascew. The thing is, in the 'good ol' days' there were two different versions of Revolver- The British version and the American version. On the American version "And You Bird Can Sing", "Doctor Robert", and "I'm Only Sleeping" are all omitted. Once they were made available on CD, though, the British version became the only version. In the US they would try to squeeze more $$ out of the public by yanking songs from the British versions and putting them on a "year end, best of" type album. The songs that were omitted on the US version of Revolver can be found on the album- "Yesterday and Today", which also contained songs that were omitted from the US versions of "Rubber Soul" and "Help". This practice ended with the release of "Sgt. Pepper's..." which had the same version released everywhere. Oh, and BTW- "I Want to Tell You" would be a George Harrison song.

I didn't know of the release policy in the US, sp thanks a lot for the info. Clears up quite a bit. And I started off in album order and then forgot, so sorry.

And "'I Want To Tell You' - John" was very stupid on my part, especially since I fully knew it was a George song, and one of the three on the album. Sorry about that too. There's enough people taking credit away from the man without me muddling up things.



And as for the US not adding 'And Your Bird Can Sing'...what the hell? That song is easily one of the strongest on the album, and to withhold it is pure idiocy to me. Oh, well. Still sold quite a bit, did that album.

[Dan1977]

Lennon easily is songs are so much emotional and he had a great imagination, anyways McCartney's just a little bitch anyways, all he did was yesterday

[english_bob]

Originally posted by Dan1977 McCartney's just a little bitch anyways, all he did was yesterday

 

 

...and Lady Madonna and Hey Jude and Helter Skelter and Got To Get You Into My Life and The Long and Winding Road and Let It Be and I Saw Her Standing There....

 

Personally, I think (and the solo stuff backs me up) that neither of them was all that brilliant without the other there to spur them on.

[inconsistently]

Paul. For me, there's no question that he was the better musician, he was just cursed with an inability to write relevant lyrics. His solo stuff's musically very sound, it's just that he has a tendency to write really cheesy lyrics. In terms of who was more "groundbreaking", I really think Paul's experiments at fusing different genres were about as innovative as John's later experimental stuff, they just weren't as obvious and they didn't appeal to the young rebel crowd that deified John after he died. I like 'em both, but I respect Paul's work more.

[billsworld]

It would have been great if they had mixed things up a bit more for sure, as in John writing with George, or even Ringo writing with Paul. But as it is, I have to add in my 2 cents worth here and cast my vote for Paul, because I think his skills as a melodist and arranger so far exceed John's that it overshadows John's gift for lyrical imagery. John wrote great word pictures, but Paul's songs always, for me at least, made more sense.

Plus it doesn't hurt that as a bass player, I am obligated by law to worship at Paul's feet at every opportunity.

[english_bob]

Originally posted by billsworld I vote for Paul, because I think his skills as a melodist and arranger so far exceed John's that it overshadows John's gift for lyrical imagery. John wrote great word pictures, but Paul's songs always, for me at least, made more sense.

 

 

Paul was certainly the more gifted songwriter in the traditional sense in that he was able to write things like Yesterday that even he thought must have already been written because of their timelessness.

 

John's gift was for lyrical nastiness a la Bob Dylan and for atmospheres, both lyrical and musical, that evoked images in the mind of the listener. Having said that, I do recall that the trippy tape loops on Tomorrow Never Knows were actually Paul's idea, stemming from his interest in Avant Garde music- John famously claimed that "Avant Garde was French for 'Bull{censored}'".

[Vatican]

I've always been a big Lennon fan because his songs have so much balls.

But I've been listening to Ram and Band on the Run this past week or so, and I love these two albums as much as any of John's solo albums.

[Vatican]

Originally posted by english_bob ....neither of them was all that brilliant without the other there to spur them on.

 

 

It was a team effort, including George, Ringo and George Martin.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Paul in my eyes is clearly the better song writer.
He wrote some of the Beatles biggest hits. I am not really a 'pop' song fan, but the stuff Paul wrote, while having great commercial appeal, came across sounding tastey and not bubble gum or cheesy.

Lady Madonna, Hey Jude, Blackbird, Back in the USSR ..... he was simply amazing.


I do like a lot of what John contributed, but it seems his strength was in the earlier years. Revolver and Rubber soul had some great John hits. I like the over all raw Rock and Roll attitude that John had.

Overall though, I would have to say Paul.



....and yes, let's not forget George Martin !!

[english_bob]

Originally posted by Dr. Tweedbucket ....and yes, let's not forget George Martin !!

 

 

It's well worth remembering George Martin's contribution when discussing those psychedelic tunes that John "wrote". They're as much production numbers as they are songs that can be performed solo on one instrument. If George Martin hadn't been able to respond so amazingly to John's requests to evoke colours, textures or visual scenes in his songs they would have been something very different.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by inconsistently In terms of who was more "groundbreaking", I really think Paul's experiments at fusing different genres were about as innovative as John's later experimental stuff, they just weren't as obvious and they didn't appeal to the young rebel crowd that deified John after he died.

 

 

The latter part of that sentence expresses what I've been thinking for a long time very well.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by Dan1977 Lennon easily is songs are so much emotional and he had a great imagination, anyways McCartney's just a little bitch anyways, all he did was yesterday

 

 

You just sound like another Macca-basher who actually knows very little about the Beatles. Especially since you think McCartney is famous purely for 'Yesterday'. Take that {censored} to Open Jam, where it belongs. Paul McCartney called a 'little bitch' who only 'did yesterday'. Never thought the day would come, even here on HC.

[jesus, etc.]

soul - lennon.

hook-writing and public personality - paul.

[english_bob]

Originally posted by Dan1977 Lennon easily is songs are so much emotional and he had a great imagination, anyways McCartney's just a little bitch anyways, all he did was yesterday

 

 

 

Originally posted by Sherinian gonnabe You just sound like another Macca-basher who actually knows very little about the Beatles. Especially since you think McCartney is famous purely for 'Yesterday'. Take that {censored} to Open Jam, where it belongs. Paul McCartney called a 'little bitch' who only 'did yesterday'. Never thought the day would come, even here on HC.

 

 

Dan1977 = Troll

 

So, you don't like the Beatles, you don't like Pink Floyd, what do you like?

[TIKILOCKEDOUT]

I figure I've got some graggin rights coming to me on this one... because my old man was a member of Sounds Incorporated who for those that didn't know were the Beatles support band who toured with them on all their World tours in the 60's, not to mention being managed by Brian Epstein at the same time. The horn section from Sounds Inc played on the Sgt Peppers album among other things and I've got my own inside info on these guys taboot. If you want to see Sounds Inc they open the show on the Beatles live at Shea Stadium (VHS)

Personally I was always a Lennon man myself and funnily enough a Harrison man second. I thought George wrote some classy songs but was in the shadow of two powerful ego's with barely an inch to move. By the way the guys in Sounds used to see Syd (Barrett) around the coffee shop a fair bit aswell in those days. Whenever I would bring Syd up they would say .."poor Syd..."

0.2 c

[gascap]

I don't care all that much for either's solo stuff BUT because of "Let Them In", "Silly Love Songs" and that perfectly awful Christmas ditty, I would pick John...plus, I do like "Jealous Guy" and "Imagine"

[Vatican]

I've been listening back through my Beatle catalogue in the last few weeks I have almost everything except for their first three albums, whcih I used to own on vinyl anyway. I have the last two anthologies as well. I have all John's solo stuff. I was always drawn to John, don't know why. Frankly, I think it was the way he looked, so badass. And of course he wrote all those cool personal songs and sang with such conviction, with all those amazing lyrics.

But I just bought Ram for the first time. Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey used to be my favorite pop song back when I was a kid. It's amazing to me even now, a great song. And I've been listening with renewed attention to Band on the Run.

So I have to admit that I've changed my mind about Paul and John. I like them both. Paul wrote music and lyrics which stack up, and he tends to be more melodic than John.

[billsworld]

One of the highlights of my "career" in music is one night we had a customer at the bar we were playing at that kept requesting Beatles songs, and we kept playing them, for like three hours straight. Then he thought he'd be a smartass and stump us by requesting "Maybe I'm Amazed", not knowing that I'd been trying to talk the band into working it up for YEARS...the other guys were like, "What the hell..." and I got to play my alltime favorite song in public for the one and only time in my life that night.

I was able to sing it, but I couldn't sing anything else for like a half hour afterwards, because of the strain on my voice from hitting those ridiculously high notes. I think as much as his ability in the area of melody writing, one of the things that attracts me to Paul's stuff is his voice...not only the range, but his ability to alter his tone to fit the song.

[Taylorman]

Originally posted by billsworld One of the highlights of my "career" in music is one night we had a customer at the bar we were playing at that kept requesting Beatles songs, and we kept playing them, for like three hours straight. Then he thought he'd be a smartass and stump us by requesting "Maybe I'm Amazed", not knowing that I'd been trying to talk the band into working it up for YEARS...the other guys were like, "What the hell..." and I got to play my alltime favorite song in public for the one and only time in my life that night. I was able to sing it, but I couldn't sing anything else for like a half hour afterwards, because of the strain on my voice from hitting those ridiculously high notes. I think as much as his ability in the area of melody writing, one of the things that attracts me to Paul's stuff is his voice...not only the range, but his ability to alter his tone to fit the song.

 

 

I, too, think Paul deserves every bit of credit he gets as a vocalist. He hits high notes with seeming ease, can be endearing, depressing, uplifting, funny and realistic all at the same time simply by changing his incredible versatile voice to fit the track in question.

 

And if you can play and/or sing over three hours worth of Beatles material, you're my hero.

[Taylorman]

Also, has anyone else realised that at 60, Paul can still pitch almost all the songs he sang as a 20-something year old live, and always while playing an instrument (keeps hopping from bass to guitars to pianos to ukuleles) with relative ease? I can think of few other men alive who can manage that.