Members mda96bjh Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 Hi all N00b question but.............. On my H&K Triamp MKII I have a master volume & a seperate volume for each of the 3 amps it has... Does the master volume drive the poweramp & the others, the pre-amp?? I am thinking of buying a marshall powerbreak to crank the amp whilst not deafening the missus....would this be worth it?? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 master volumes are the last barrier between your preamp and your poweramp. They let the preamp current through to drive the poweramp. Without preamp current, the mastervolume does nothin. Preamp volumes let the current out of the specific channel. so yes, a powerbreak would function great in this situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mda96bjh Posted December 10, 2007 Author Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 so which volume should i use to get the best distorted tones?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Holy War Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 so which volume should i use to get the best distorted tones?? This is getting a bit technical for me so Ill keep it simple, the best distortion comes from power amp break up, but in order for this to happen, the volume has to be way up in the power section. This is how guys who play plexis etc get their tone, by turning the volume way up. That is why people say you have to turn tube amps up to get a good sound out of them. That being said, a lot of modern amps with master volumes have pre-amp distortion. Each volume knob that you have for each independent channel drives the pre amp tubes for distortion. However, in order to get those sounds out of the pre-amp, you still have to send it through the power amp. The power amp amplifies the signal coming from the pre amp to create your sound. If the power amp is also not driven, then your pre amp tones are pretty much worthless and sound mucky. Im no amp tech, but this is my basic understanding. Anyone correct me if I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members robwl Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 the best distortion comes from power amp break up It actually depends. Some people prefer preamp distortion to power amp distortion. It kinda depends on what your looking for, but yes they both sound and respond differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Weathered Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 It actually depends. Some people prefer preamp distortion to power amp distortion. It kinda depends on what your looking for, but yes they both sound and respond differently. +1 They are different - there's definitely no "better" or "worse", to be honest. It's all shades of different. The Triamp is a great sounding amp either way, but it does develop a lot of the tone in the preamp. Turning it up will sound better, but a HotPlate/Powerbrake isn't going to turn it into a bedroom amp - you'll probably find (as most people do) that attenuation sounds best at 4-8 dB of cut, which isn't enough to really open up the power amp and keep to a wfe-friendly volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yourguitarhero Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 You need a good blend of pre and power amp dirt for certain amps - such as Marshalls. However something like the TriAmp is built with a high headroom power amp that shouldn't really distort too much - just provide a punishingly loud platform for the pre-amp dirt to cock-slam your nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdMan57 Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 Kind of a side question here,but what are the pros and cons [if any] of having a post phase inverter master volume control? Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 of having a post phase inverter master volume control? Ed The pro is that you can now take your prized 100 W Marshall head to gigs without getting killed by the sound guy (and the rest of the band for that matter). The con is that you have to mod your vintage amp... The one i have in my Superbass does not affect tone a lot, if at all. I can't hear the difference in any case. For MV amps it is redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EdMan57 Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 The pro is that you can now take your prized 100 W Marshall head to gigs without getting killed by the sound guy (and the rest of the band for that matter).The con is that you have to mod your vintage amp...The one i have in my Superbass does not affect tone a lot, if at all. I can't hear the difference in any case.For MV amps it is redundant. So,are you saying that all modern day preamp gain/master volume tube amps use the post P.I. master?...or am I a moron,and just not getting it?Anyways,thanks for the response. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Weathered Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 So,are you saying that all modern day preamp gain/master volume tube amps use the post P.I. master?...or am I a moron,and just not getting it?Anyways,thanks for the response.Ed Actually, most modern high-gainers use a pre-PI master volume, which limits the voltage between the preamp and the phase inverter. Amps with effects loops tend to use a pre-PI MV as the loop inserts the signal into the PI, and a clipping PI will somewhat defeat the purpose of the effects loop to start with (delays and modulation effects not sounding good placed before distortion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grumphh Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 So,are you saying that all modern day preamp gain/master volume tube amps use the post P.I. master?...or am I a moron,and just not getting it?Anyways,thanks for the response. Ed Weathered gave you the tech side - what i meant by redundant was that to me the main goal of the MV is to get the volume down to playable levels, not to get a certain tone from the amp. So if you have an amp with a functional MV, why bother putting another one in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members the_bleeding Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 to get poweramp distortion from your master volume, you have to have your channel volumes high enough so the current makes it to the master volume in the first place I learned this with my marshall, i was running the master around 8 or 9, and the channel volumes way low, and it just sounded fizzy, and no poweramp breakup at all... so now i run my channel volumes on 5 at the minimum and my master between 3-5 and it sounds WAYYY better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Herald of Light Posted December 10, 2007 Members Share Posted December 10, 2007 to get poweramp distortion from your master volume, you have to have your channel volumes high enough so the current makes it to the master volume in the first place I learned this with my marshall, i was running the master around 8 or 9, and the channel volumes way low, and it just sounded fizzy, and no poweramp breakup at all... so now i run my channel volumes on 5 at the minimum and my master between 3-5 and it sounds WAYYY better. I kind of doubt the power amp is really being overdriven with the master volume at 3-5, especially with the channel volumes down and reducing the level. It may very well sound different and better, but that has more to do with the design of the amp and the way our ears work. Of course it depends on the amp, but even with low power, very low headroom amps, I can't say I've ever really noticed the response of the power amp changing until at least about halfway up, with all other relevant volume/gain controls maxed. Even then, it's not audible distortion, which should be very apparent, considering how much less preamp distortion the typical amp like that will be producing. It's just some compression and a different feel, which continues to change as the volume control is turned up higher than that point, but stops actually increasing the output level. Most any amp suddenly sounds better from 3-5. If you ask me, it's because that's about where it will become "loud," and hits the volume level where the frequency response of our ears becomes more pleasing. It will likely still be able to get louder at least a little beyond that, though, before it reaches the point of significant clipping. Think about this. When you listen to music, does it sound better at conversation volumes, or blasting as loud as you can tolerate it without hurting your ears or blowing something? So long as there aren't any negative effects, louder is pretty much always better to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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