Cool Axe-FX Video Review

[Dave Owens]

i have a couple lexicon units and some other junk in my rack.but i have a Synth and if i needed to loop.(do it in
protools.).i need another $3-5K to finish up my rig.
and then im going to spend on just the studio stuff.
when you get some clips post them up.is there page or forum for it.?

I agree. For most people the standard is all that'd be needed. I only got talked into the Ultra because I love effects and it can do some things the Standard can't do... like looping, synth, extra multi-tap delays, faster tracking for the pitch shifting/harmonizer, extra graphic & parametric EQ's, extra memory to allow more things to be run at the same time, etc.

 

[GITTarzann]

Axe-Fx Forum

[JoshuaLogan]

 

I posted a few threads about the Axe when I first had got on the list, and went through a lot of the same stuff here. (I didn't post nearly as many times as you have though) but, the sad part of the deal is...you are just excited about finding this "new" piece of gear and you want to share it with others, and then you get flamed for sharing. I totally admit, I am still up in the air about the Axe, and I have actually played one (which I would say was quite an eye opening experience), but I have also spent quite a bit of time weighing all the comments I have read, and 99+% comes out to "this box is the real deal". So if I can ditch my 24 space rack my (2) 4 X 12's (2)1 X 12's and all my heads and cords and well you get the idea....sign me up. Well I am signed up, but I am definitely going to be putting some quality time in with the Axe to find out if it can do it for ME!?! I sure hope it can and does, and I am not going to worry about the people who comedown on me for being excited.

 

 

 

Yeah, I could just let people rant and say ignorant things, but I might as well address the things they say when they're wrong. They usually don't comment on it again after that. heh.

 

And yeah, I'm definitely excited for it. It's an amazing piece of equipment. When I first got on the list for this thing, I was only interested in the effects, but since then I've heard so much about the amp sims that I'm almost entirely sure this thing will be what my new setup revolves around. Honestly, I'm not like you with already having tons of high end rack equipment and various amps and a really nice studio with expensive equipment, so I will be easier to please than you. Even if it wasn't quite up to the quality of Eventide effects units (although I think it IS), it wouldn't really matter to me.... it'd definitely be "close enough" just because of everything it can do so well and how many uses I'd have for it, you know?

[JoshuaLogan]

i have a couple lexicon units and some other junk in my rack.but i have a Synth and if i needed to loop.(do it in protools.).i need another $3-5K to finish up my rig. and then im going to spend on just the studio stuff. when you get some clips post them up.is there page or forum for it.?

 

 

True about the synth, but I can play guitar a whole lot better than I can play keys lol.... so, to be able to do it on guitar (and be able to quickly switch back and forth) is really cool.

 

As for the looping, and this isn't for defending the Axe-FX as there are many loopers out there, a lot of people use looping live where protools isn't an option. For example, I could switch to synth preset and do some volume swells while recording with the looper, then stop it and allow it to loop over then switch back to an amp preset and play guitar over the looped swells.... just one example. It allows you to do some really cool stuff live and fill out the band with less members.

[GITTarzann]

I hear you.

I don't have a studio or anything like that yet.

My rack is all guitar oriented stuff, and it is not all high end stuff.

I have
Splawn modded Marshall
Mesa Boogie Mark III Blue Stripe Rack Mount
Randall RPG1000 Preamp
Peavey 50/50 stereo power amp
Lexicon MPX G2
Rocktron Pro Q
ADA MQ1 EQ
Furman PQ3
Korg DTR1 Tuner
Rat R2DU rackmount
Sound Sculpture Switchblade GL
Rocktron Patchmate
Zvex Fuzz Factory
modded SD1
Marshall 4X12
Splawn 4X12
2-Bogner 1X12 Cubes
Rocktron All Access with 2 EB Expression Pedals

Probably some more stuff..this is off the top of my head.

The neat thing about my setup is I can switch between any and all of my amps at once, in any order and put EQ's, and FX before or after the preamps etc.

I basically built this setup to do what the Axe-Fx can do in 2 spaces.

Although my rack wishes it was like Zachman's, this is all I can afford, but if the Axe replaces it, even after buying 2 QSC's I will have several thousand left over to play with. And it will be in a 4 to 6 space rack

[edeltorus]

I just read the Axe-FX wiki...

Can I put an effect block into the feedback-loop of the delays? - Seems like I can't.

Can I do sample and hold style effects? Seems like I can't either.

Then I checked the basics. Delay is most important for me. You can shape the feedbacks with a simple high/lowpass filter. That's all. You can't place resonant peaks and ripples at the corner-frequencies to simulate the sound of the analog delay antialias filters. :-(

Any strange effect blocks in there? No.

I'd like to see a decimator/bit-crusher/lofi emulator thing. A frequency shifter maybe or some other experimental things.

Give us something we can create *new* sounds with.

Looks like a neat box, but they I see no reason why I should get one. Nothing new in there, just the same old stuff that we have in other rack-effects for years. :blah:

[JoshuaLogan]

I just read the Axe-FX wiki... Can I put an effect block into the feedback-loop of the delays? - Seems like I can't. Can I do sample and hold style effects? Seems like I can't either. Then I checked the basics. Delay is most important for me. You can shape the feedbacks with a simple high/lowpass filter. That's all. You can't place resonant peaks and ripples at the corner-frequencies to simulate the sound of the analog delay antialias filters. :-( Any strange effect blocks in there? No. I'd like to see a decimator/bit-crusher/lofi emulator thing. A frequency shifter maybe or some other experimental things. Give us something we can create *new* sounds with. Looks like a neat box, but they I see no reason why I should get one. Nothing new in there, just the same old stuff that we have in other rack-effects for years. :blah:

 

sounds more like you want to make noise...

 

but you can request anything you want on the forum. if enough people agree with you that it'd be useful, it's likely the features would be added to a firmware update. if not many people thought it'd be useful.... well, there's a reason for that... heh

[GITTarzann]

I just read the Axe-FX wiki... Can I put an effect block into the feedback-loop of the delays? - Seems like I can't.

 

 

I believe you can with the loop out and return

 

I don't know about your second question, but for the rest of your requests...

 

that seems like stuff YOU want ...or maybe people like you who would make a A VERY SMALL minority of the users.

 

I can't see very many uses for your requests, but Cliff has surprised many of the people on Axe-Fx forum, and incorporated small requests !

[mctallica1]

I just read the Axe-FX wiki... Can I put an effect block into the feedback-loop of the delays? - Seems like I can't. Can I do sample and hold style effects? Seems like I can't either. Then I checked the basics. Delay is most important for me. You can shape the feedbacks with a simple high/lowpass filter. That's all. You can't place resonant peaks and ripples at the corner-frequencies to simulate the sound of the analog delay antialias filters. :-( Any strange effect blocks in there? No. I'd like to see a decimator/bit-crusher/lofi emulator thing. A frequency shifter maybe or some other experimental things. Give us something we can create *new* sounds with. Looks like a neat box, but they I see no reason why I should get one. Nothing new in there, just the same old stuff that we have in other rack-effects for years. :blah:

Wow..you want a lot of stuff I have no idea how to use LOL.


I agree that the Axe does have a lot of things we have already in other boxes/sims....however it sounds and FEELS better....real even. That is what it is all about for me:)


But then, I didn't get it for the effects...the yare just a bonus for me. I got it for the amp tones and they are superb. I don't miss my tube amps at all. If I did, I would have sold the Axe in a heartbeat and NOT sold all my other gear.

[duodecim]

$1750..== Uber Mako Rocca,, peters,, (confused....)....why bother..?

 

 

Well, you still have to add a poweramp... Which is another $1000. You end up with something along the lines of $2700, which buys you pretty much any head (in the US and without taxes, that is).

 

Nevertheless, I'd be totally willing to try one out for home playing late at night. But not for that price... And perhaps a newer improved model, a year down the line, when any bugs are ironed out and improved algorithms run on updated hardware.

 

The sad thing about all these modelers is that they could basically run on any modern computer (with a real-time kernel, but still). Imagine, an axe-fx plugin for home recording... Ofcourse, nobody wants to pay for software as opposed to something tangible, so I don't think we should hold our breath for a cheaper software-only axe-fx.

 

Nice review though.

[Agreed]

Well, you still have to add a poweramp... Which is another $1000. You end up with something along the lines of $2700, which buys you pretty much any head (in the US and without taxes, that is). Nevertheless, I'd be totally willing to try one out for home playing late at night. But not for that price... And perhaps a newer improved model, a year down the line, when any bugs are ironed out and improved algorithms run on updated hardware. The sad thing about all these modelers is that they could basically run on any modern computer (with a real-time kernel, but still). Imagine, an axe-fx plugin for home recording... Ofcourse, nobody wants to pay for software as opposed to something tangible, so I don't think we should hold our breath for a cheaper software-only axe-fx. Nice review though.

Actually, as I understand it he's working on a VST or DX plugin version of AxeFX. Which supports my argument that he isn't using super high end audio DSPs in his units, but regular desktop processors, drawn from his marketing claim on the first page that with a "dual-core 500mhz processors" his unit has "more power than most desktop computeres!". I still haven't been disproven on that, primarily out of a refusal to dig deep enough to be shown wrong!

But for my money, I'll take Amplitube or Guitar Rig's latest release for the plugin platform. They're really, really good. Guitar Rig 3 is a step up (in my opinion) in modeling quality from the previous version, which was already excellent, and Amplitube 2 and revisions are also just fantastic in the realistic sound and modeling depth they get. The only thing they lose points on is feel compared to AxeFX, and effects quality and quantity (though Guitar Rig 3 gives AxeFX a run for its money on both of the Q's, I think). I think a lot of the "feel" issue is that with all the overhead from sound cards and processing, you end up with at least a little latency unavoidably. It can be HIGHLY minimized with a top-of-the-line system tailored to run VSTs with little to no latency, but in my experience with such systems it still isn't trivialized, and that does impact the feel somewhat, though not the sound.

[Deuterium]

Actually, as I understand it he's working on a VST or DX plugin version of AxeFX. Which supports my argument that he isn't using super high end audio DSPs in his units, but regular desktop processors, drawn from his marketing claim on the first page that with a "dual-core 500mhz processors" his unit has "more power than most desktop computeres!". I still haven't been disproven on that, primarily out of a refusal to dig deep enough to be shown wrong!

Consider yourself proven wrong.

The Axe-FX employs super high end Analog Devices TigerSHARC processors:

http://www.analog.com/processors/tigersharc/overview/customerstories/fractalAudio/fractalAudioIndex.html

And that took about 30 seconds of searching.

[TheAmazingBlob]

That sounded pretty damn good

[JoshuaLogan]

That sounded pretty damn good

And that's through a little 1x12 atomic cab.

Imagine through a really nice PA or really nice powered monitors or something like a VHT poweramp into a 4x12 or two.... yeaaaahhh...

[Agreed]

Consider yourself proven wrong. The Axe-FX employs super high end Analog Devices TigerSHARC processors: http://www.analog.com/processors/tigersharc/overview/customerstories/fractalAudio/fractalAudioIndex.html And that took about 30 seconds of searching.

 

 

Oh my!

 

(I actually kind of already knew that, but tired sarcasm doesn't really translate well online, even with wink... Apologies. But I was being serious in that I've heard he's working on a plugin.)

[mctallica1]

And that's through a little 1x12 atomic cab. Imagine through a really nice PA or really nice powered monitors or something like a VHT poweramp into a 4x12 or two.... yeaaaahhh...

Can you say QSC))))

[brain21band]

A couple of people here said things along the lines of 'well you could build a computer for less money' essentially illustrating the point that this can all be done in software on a PC. Well the current stuff isn't quite up to the axe-fx, but I digress.

 

How can I say this... would you trust your live show to Micro$oft? I mean imagine playing a gig and your sound stops. You look over only to see a BSOD on your PC! Now you have to reboot, and by the time you are at your desktop, the song is over!

 

Sure, you can help stabilize Windows (XP) by running it through nLite to strip the install down and remove unnecessary componenets and install from there. You can create a write once, boot many hibernation file so when the PC does crash, it comes back up reasonably quickly and windows "boots" from the hibernation file, but I believe to really do that properly you have have an MSDN subscription or know someone that has access to XP Embedded, SP2 to grab the proper DLL files. So how many of you have access to that? How many know how to properly set that up, including running your install disks thru nLite? Sure, some, but not many, and it can be a hassle to go through the whole process as well (I know, I have done it before - I got XP booting off of a CFII card for a carPC about a year ago).

 

Wanna run it on a mac? Well it will be more stable. I'm not bringing my only Mac Laptop to a gig though. My personal preference. Something like a Mac Mini might be cool though. So spend ~$650 (maybe less) on that. Then $300 for Guitar Rig or whatever software, then another $100 on an interface to get your guitar into the MacMini. Then you have to run the line-level out of the mac mini into an amp & then into speakers. So barring the amp & speakers you have spent ~$1050, and it's still nowhere as capable as an Axe-Fx. Oh, then there is the monitor. Add the cost of that if you don't have a spare one. And btw, do YOU want to drag a monitor to the gig on top of everything else? Want to use an LCD? Lets' hope it doesn't vibrate off of where it's sitting? :-)

 

Not trying talk anyone out of or into anything, just trying to put some perspective on the issue here. It's not exactly fair to compare the Axe-Fx to computer software, esp. since the Axe-Fx will come out on top in every category other than price :-)

 

And no, I don't even own an Axe-Fx (yet)

[GodBlessTexas]

Damn it! Just when I have enough for my Mark IV, I start gassing for this thing again. I need to hear some mid-gain tones, and if someone could replicate the spaghetti western electric guitar parts from Ween's Buenos Tardes Amigo, I'd be totally sold.

[LaXu]

A couple of people here said things along the lines of 'well you could build a computer for less money' essentially illustrating the point that this can all be done in software on a PC. Well the current stuff isn't quite up to the axe-fx, but I digress. How can I say this... would you trust your live show to Micro$oft? I mean imagine playing a gig and your sound stops. You look over only to see a BSOD on your PC! Now you have to reboot, and by the time you are at your desktop, the song is over!

 

 

Honestly, Windows XP and Vista have been totally stable on my computers for years. And that is without doing anything drastic, just keeping them up to date. I don't even run antivirus software because those do more harm than good in my experience (resource hogs, can't detect all the crap) plus since I know what the hell I'm doing I don't get viruses or trojans or spyware. I do run a software firewall though. My Vista installation isn't vLited because at the moment it doesn't offer anything over the standard install. My XP was always nLited because XP by default comes with tons of crap I don't need.

 

A Mac isn't inherently any more stable either. I've seen Macs crash numerous times. The whole "it just works" is just bollocks. It's a computer, it may have problems at times, especially at the hands of the average user who generally does not have knowledge beyond using their everyday software.

 

I've seen many performers from DJs to traditional musicians use laptops at their gigs all night long without problems. If the Axe-Fx becomes available as a software plugin then that would be what I'd do. The processing power of a typical modern laptop should outperform the Axe-Fx unit so in the end the difference between bringing a laptop and bringing an Axe-Fx hardware unit would be that the laptop has a far more friendly user interface and would require an external audio interface. Plus you could also use it for things like loops depending on what kind of music you're doing.

[adrianb23]

Wow. That's the first video showcasing the Axe-fx with tones that i actually like. So far the tones i've heard on clips have been too shrill and bright. If i had the money i'd be all over an Axe-fx.

 

Guess i'll have to wait until Behringer makes an Axe-fx clone and sells it for $200.

 

*ducks*

 

[brain21band]

I have several Maqcs, a bunch of PC, and a few Linux boxes. At work I generally use Windows (XP, 2k, and 2k3 server) and various Linux distros, as well as a bunch of VMs.

 

My wife has Vista on her laptop. She had previously had a laptop w/ XP. She is thinking of going back to XP. Vista is more of a resource hog (and she is NOT running Aero) that XP was, and our experience w/ her laptop is that Vista is FAR less stable. At least on her laptop. It seems to have serious hibernation issues. Normally I would chalk that up to her laptop hardware+Vista combination, but I have heard the same thing from *numerous* other people, so I know we are not alone. She's running Vista Home Premium. After hearing other stories and her experiences, I refuse to install Vista on any of my machines. Maybe by the time SP4 comes out :-) I also have a friend running the 64-bit version of Vista, and he loves it, so YMMV, BUT caveat emptor!

 

Anyway, Macs are not perfect. I have had my mac freeze up a few times, causing me to power it off and then reboot. OSX 10.4.8 (or maybe it was 10.4.7 - I can't remember now) was horrid for my MBP and freezes!!! My older iMacs running 10.3.9 (they can run Tiger, but it's more resource intensive and these are old machines so I leave them) tend to freeze up every now and then.

 

That all being said, Windows *still* freezes, leaks memory, etc. SO MUCH more often than ANY of my macs! I only run AV on one of my Windows PCs that DLs stuff from the net, simply because I am running a firewall at home that does both signature and Heuristic based A/V that is far superior than anything on the market. And it's not a consumer firewall like the netgear, linksys, etc. FW/Router type firewalls. This is an expensive, "real deal" kind of firewall. In a music/gigging PC, as long as you keep it just for that, there is no real need for A/V assuming you're getting everything from known sources and have A/V scanned everything anyway, so that helps, as does not needing a personal firewall or anything like that.

 

If Windows froze, and I could power down and reboot and be up and running and have my sounds in say 10 secs or so, I could live w/ the risk. Sh*t happens, and even the best of gear that is electronic can freeze and run into weird issues, esp in the hazardous environment of a gig, or even just getting there. :-) If my mac freezes, I can't get it back up that quickly either. Forget it w/ Linux for the most part!

 

Having said ALL that, I agree that a laptop can do so much more. If an Axe-FX plugin works just as well as the hardware unit, awesome. But, my mac laptop cost a lot more than the Axe-Fx (not only that, take the cost of the laptop, and then the cost of the plugin on top of that!), and is a more fragile thing than the Axe-Fx. It's a lot easier for a laptop to succumb to the gig environment. I feel MUCH more nervous having a laptop at a gig than an Axe-Fx, but that may be just me.

 

Plus, from what I have seen, Cliff's "customer service" is just WAY beyond even Apple's, and if something goes wrong in the hardware gfor either and I had to send it back for repairs, I'd rather send an Axe-Fx to Cliff than give my mac to a "Genius" (now THERE is hyperbole if I've ever heard it!) at an Apple store, and if it's a Windows-based laptop? AHAHAHA! Sned it to Circuit City or Best Buy or whoever at your own risk!

 

Hey, look, some people are comfortable with taking the laptop, and that's cool. I saw John McLaughlin on his Remember Shakti tour way back when (2000?), and he was running his ES-335 into his Mac laptop, probably running something like Guitar Rig or Amplitube or even Protools & Amp farm. He was touring with it and was fine with it, but it's not for me...

 

Brain21

[starsnuffer]

Version 5.0 of the ultra firmware {censored}ING KILLS!

 

It's like R. Bogner and M. Soldano were just inside my axe-FX modding amps.

 

The tape-drive after the cab/mic block is SICK! Suddenly a {censored} load of my VST's are obsolete.

 

-W

[brain21band]

Version 5.0 of the ultra firmware {censored}ING KILLS! It's like R. Bogner and M. Soldano were just inside my axe-FX modding amps. The tape-drive after the cab/mic block is SICK! Suddenly a {censored} load of my VST's are obsolete. -W

 

 

I hear a lot of people say this. So what about the 5.0 of the standard? Should be the same amp changes, right?

[duodecim]

I totally agree. I have never owned a computer running Windows. I've been running Linux since 1998, and some *BSDs (and Solaris/SunOS, but that's a BSD of sorts). The only way I could ever get FreeBSD to crash, was if the hardware had gone bad (corrupted memory, for instance).

I believe a well-tuned unix system with real-time patches in the kernel could pull off something like the AxeFX, if only the software would exist. Maybe QNX RTOS, maybe even stock Linux. You'd have to throw anything you don't need out of the kernel. What is the AxeFX software running on anyway? I'm sure a one-man operation couldn't write his own kernel in a short enough time to keep it relevant...

That's not to say that I'd like to drag a computer along for amp use... I've got no problem with the AxeFX at all, software can only get better and hardware cheaper. The better the software model becomes and the more performance can be gotten from hardware, the fewer people will notice anything unnatural, un-tube-y if you want. And the AxeFX looks like a handy format.

I'll wait for the next gen though.

Mostly because I don't have any money.

[brain21band]

What is the AxeFX software running on anyway? I'm sure a one-man operation couldn't write his own kernel in a short enough time to keep it relevant...

This is exactly what's happening. Cliff, is a one man team, and his wife helps with the business side of things. I think he's hiring or hired people for some of the hardware assembly, but as far as the software stuff, it's all Cliff.

Go look at the Axe-Fx forums (don't have a link handy) and look at some of the postings for the new Firmware revs, or just look for Cliff's posts. He discusses at a high level a lot of the math that he is doing for this thing. You get visions of white twisted hair, lab coats, and as Steve Martin said "Those things that got BZZZzzztt!" (Jacobs ladder).