Members piannatunah Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Originally posted by tompetty OK...before bed I'll give a go... a bluegrass(That's impt) tune I wrote when I was pissed at the wife for forcing me to mow the lawn when I didn't feel like it..anyway Moma Drove Dad Crazy.. Moma drove Dad crazy damned near half his life she was more like a mother than a loving wife she'd rag'n nag and torture him 'till it ended in a fight Moma drove Dad crazy damned near half his life Dad cooked Sunday dinner then he cleaned up the mess he was downstairs watching football a little too happy I guess he did all that he could do as far as I could see then Moma came thumping downstairs said pay some attention to me Dad came home from work one day and she met him at the door she was red faced and cussin' he didn't know what for she said I hate my life and I wish that I was dead Dad smiled at me,pulled a gun and shot her through the head I went up to the prison there was a question I had to ask the guard sat him down across from me and said son make it fast I said Daddy are you happy now? or are you sorry for what you did? then I seen a twinkle in his eye on his face a big old grin He said life's been hard on me son but I don't think about the past Moma's gone and I'm in here Hell No,I'm free at last... Now THAT'S a country song! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cherri Posted July 26, 2005 Members Share Posted July 26, 2005 Hi, I'm new here, floated over from Musicplayer. I've written a couple of CDs worth of tunes. Interesting thread this. I never post lyrics much, mostly because without the accompanying music, lyrics have less impact. Things I do like to discuss ... where ideas for songs come from, editing and tweaking, structuring lyrics & melodies for the best effect, and the responses I get from time to time on originals. Last weekend someone from the audience called out, "Play more originals!!" How often does that happen? Usually it's "Play something we know!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NoirAbattoir Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 Originally posted by LDF [b No record deal for you guys. Are you a record producer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members looj Posted August 2, 2005 Members Share Posted August 2, 2005 It seems obvious to me that coming to an HC Forum to have your music critiqued or to get feedback would kind of be a disaster. I perform my music live to get feedback --- recording and posting it online has never interested me (for feedback/critique purposes). What I don't like are the "experienced" songwriters thinking that this place is unuseable or a waste of time. I like the interaction about inspiration or technique or idea tossing about. This place is nice for that. But I'm not going to think I'm above this place just because I'm experienced and my songs have been published and blah blah blah. As far as I'm concerned, my success has mostly come from being in the right place at the right time rather than writing perfect songs. Sure, you probably have to filter through more garbage here than some of the other forums, but I wouldn't discount this place because you think you're too good for it. Songs are totally subjective, styles are always evolving, opinions will vary dramatically from person to person. That's what separates the subject matter of this forum from the amp forum --- songs are a product of the soul while amps are a product of, uh, Peavey (or whoever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kidsha Posted August 13, 2005 Members Share Posted August 13, 2005 bitchbitchbitch. i thought i'd have a quick look at this section of the forum even though i do think anything beyond critique in terms of song writing and anything none-methodical is really .. pointless? all i've seen is people either bitch about how good they could be if they're lyrics were more palatable in a 'song' like format.. and others about how terribly clich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 13, 2005 Members Share Posted August 13, 2005 Well in response kidsha and looj: Actually yes, more experienced songwriters understand that there is an established craft called "songwriting" and it is relatively specific, which is why we may find the forum "useless"- of course we also understand that any creative endeavor has subjective criteria as well, and no one can really tell you what and what not to create- but then why post? Is it only for reassurance? If that's the case then again, I will find it realtively useless. If people don't want to hear about the established craft, but just want to {censored} on a piece of paper or write whatever they want to- go ahead! But don't expect everyone to just pat you on the back for it. I agree with you about writing however, and if you were to look at the last song critique I posted for someone here you would see that most of it is about language and structure and hardly ANY of it is about CONTENT. But it's kind of pointless to offer critiques when people just say "well that's just your opinion!" and get all defensive when you are merely pointing out that the word "but" implies an "either/or" statement and something should be changed because the sentence is structured as an AND statement. That is NOT an opinion, that is the English language! Good luck,B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kidsha Posted August 14, 2005 Members Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by BryanMichael That is NOT an opinion, that is the English language! hey BryanMichael, that was really well said. i can really tell how much it annoys the sh#t out of you when you try to help someone and they simply just don't want to understand. i don't know, i can't really comment as i've never seen one of your assessments of someones work (let alone their reaction to it) to really make my own generalized opinion of this forum. because that's what it's all about, generalization! i however have one question, don't take this the wrong way either because i'm actually really eager to hear your response to this. my question to you is i understand that you base your assessment on the craft of "songwriting", as you so nicely put it, but what i'm interested in is what other 'methods' do you use to assess ones work? to my understanding your critiques are solely based upon language (to what extent i don't know, i would see for myself) and structure. is there any other criteria you incorporate when assessing someones work? because from my experience if you genuinely want to aid someone it gets just that much more complicated when it's doing using a medium such as an online forum. to be honest, if for example i was to give you something of mine and asked if you could 'critique' (using that exact word) with no bias, then i would expect there to be some input on your thoughts of the creativity level. anyway that's just how i feel, people like myself assume when the word critique or assess or any other one word which we use in a similar generalizing fashion. you might laugh at this but i think in future to hinder any sense of feeling unappriciated on your part, make sure you make it clear what your assessments are based on. again i'm not meaning to offend you at all, i actually really admire the fact that your obviously well educated and have your own opinions which you feel strongly about. when i write something worth converting to a word or notepad document (i write by hand) i would really like you to have a look at it. i think for now though i'll keep it where it belongs, under my bed! anyway all the best to everyone, shane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BryanMichael Posted August 14, 2005 Members Share Posted August 14, 2005 Originally posted by kidsha hey BryanMichael, that was really well said. i can really tell how much it annoys the sh#t out of you when you try to help someone and they simply just don't want to understand. i don't know, i can't really comment as i've never seen one of your assessments of someones work (let alone their reaction to it) to really make my own generalized opinion of this forum. because that's what it's all about, generalization! i however have one question, don't take this the wrong way either because i'm actually really eager to hear your response to this. my question to you is i understand that you base your assessment on the craft of "songwriting", as you so nicely put it, but what i'm interested in is what other 'methods' do you use to assess ones work? to my understanding your critiques are solely based upon language (to what extent i don't know, i would see for myself) and structure. is there any other criteria you incorporate when assessing someones work? because from my experience if you genuinely want to aid someone it gets just that much more complicated when it's doing using a medium such as an online forum. to be honest, if for example i was to give you something of mine and asked if you could 'critique' (using that exact word) with no bias, then i would expect there to be some input on your thoughts of the creativity level. anyway that's just how i feel, people like myself assume when the word critique or assess or any other one word which we use in a similar generalizing fashion. you might laugh at this but i think in future to hinder any sense of feeling unappriciated on your part, make sure you make it clear what your assessments are based on. again i'm not meaning to offend you at all, i actually really admire the fact that your obviously well educated and have your own opinions which you feel strongly about. when i write something worth converting to a word or notepad document (i write by hand) i would really like you to have a look at it. i think for now though i'll keep it where it belongs, under my bed! anyway all the best to everyone, shane. Hey Shane- I'm not offended at all To better explain what I am talking about, here is the last "real" critique I posted for someone at this forum. http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=959614 I think you will see that I did not change what the song was about (content) but only made it more consistent with regard to the intention of the author. All of my critiques are offered as a "take what you want and leave what you don't" proposition. In the case of that thread, the author was gracious. Take a look at that and let me know if it makes things clearer as to what I look for... If you'd like to email me something privately I would be willing to look at it, but I'm really no expert either. Let me know what you think of that thread. Peace, B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jabney Posted August 14, 2005 Members Share Posted August 14, 2005 hi looj, You said, "That's what separates the subject matter of this forum from the amp forum --- songs are a product of the soul while amps are a product of, uh, Peavey (or whoever)" Obviously, you are listenng to the wrong amps :-) There are designers of amps and other electronics who pour everything they have into their designs. If it were simply a matter of following formulas and specs, then all guitar amps would operate at less than .01 % distortion and sound as bland as a number of today's top forty songs. As for the broader discussion about form vs. freedom in lyrics, I try to critique (other's lyrics and my own) with a few simple rules in mind. 1. Lyrics must be true - even if they are false. 2. Don't violate your song's own timeline. 3. Meaning is more important than rhyme - always. 4. If you start with a rhyming scheme and a structure, you'd better have a good reason to violate it later on. 5. Cliches are not forbidden, as long as they are few in number, and as long as the writer is conscious of using the cliche and structures the surrounding lyrics accordingly. 6. When you create a character in your lyrics, you are the one to keep the character honest, or dishonest. If the character evolves, you'd better let the listener know why or how that evolution took place. 7. Repition of the same words is fine. Repeating the same exact thought but with different words is not. And those are the guidelines for lyrics I respect. If the writer comes up with awkward or unnatural phrasing just so he or she can fit in a rhyme, I'll probably not even comment (or if I've done it, I'll put those fragments in the re-cycle file and let 'em ferment). Of course I've probably violated all those rules at one time or another, but seldom with any success. best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Etienne Rambert Posted August 18, 2005 Members Share Posted August 18, 2005 Yup. I do. Here is a new one. It's called "A Woman from Cuba" My main song page is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bluesmann Posted August 20, 2005 Members Share Posted August 20, 2005 some here. http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=234035 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tompetty Posted August 21, 2005 Members Share Posted August 21, 2005 Hello fellow lovers of writing... ..Nice to see a little action in this neck of the woods...though it's slower coming than my Dad before viagra;) ....Anyone wanna critique my little bluegrass ditty up above???...Anywho..I'll check in from time to time.....I've never had trouble coming up with lyrics,but for me it's harder to come up with a different melody(something that's not been done)....Though they are like me and my last girlfriend...They usually come together.....2nd anywho....take care.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tompetty Posted August 21, 2005 Members Share Posted August 21, 2005 Originally posted by jabney hi looj,You said, "That's what separates the subject matter of this forum from the amp forum --- songs are a product of the soul while amps are a product of, uh, Peavey (or whoever)"Obviously, you are listenng to the wrong amps :-)There are designers of amps and other electronics who pour everything they have into their designs. If it were simply a matter of following formulas and specs, then all guitar amps would operate at less than .01 % distortion and sound as bland as a number of today's top forty songs.As for the broader discussion about form vs. freedom in lyrics, I try to critique (other's lyrics and my own) with a few simple rules in mind.1. Lyrics must be true - even if they are false.2. Don't violate your song's own timeline.3. Meaning is more important than rhyme - always.4. If you start with a rhyming scheme and a structure, you'd better have a good reason to violate it later on.5. Cliches are not forbidden, as long as they are few in number, and as long as the writer is conscious of using the cliche and structures the surrounding lyrics accordingly.6. When you create a character in your lyrics, you are the one to keep the character honest, or dishonest. If the character evolves, you'd better let the listener know why or how that evolution took place.7. Repition of the same words is fine. Repeating the same exact thought but with different words is not.And those are the guidelines for lyrics I respect. If the writer comes up with awkward or unnatural phrasing just so he or she can fit in a rhyme, I'll probably not even comment (or if I've done it, I'll put those fragments in the re-cycle file and let 'em ferment).Of course I've probably violated all those rules at one time or another, but seldom with any success.best,John Agree with those guidelines 100%.Though there is always the exception...I'm sometimes try for the exception... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeopold Posted August 21, 2005 Members Share Posted August 21, 2005 I'm 41, been writing tunes since age 12, and aim to carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stanley Posted August 22, 2005 Members Share Posted August 22, 2005 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jabney Posted August 23, 2005 Members Share Posted August 23, 2005 hi Stanley, You said, "I guess its easy to create interesting lyrics when you try to write funnily. Or story lyrics." Would that were true. I think one of the reasons there are so few funnily written songs, is that it is serious business trying to be funny. Weird Al has my respect for the brilliance he brings to the task. It's easy to write a set of alternate lyrics to show people that you are clever. Funny is a lot harder than clever, though. Story songs you might think would be easy. But there's a catch: you have to come up with a story first. As an example, I am writing a song with my friend, Ian McCarthy, and we have the basic structure, a first verse, and either a chorus or a refrain or a bridge or possibly all three :-). We even have what we think is a memorable character, Charlie. All we need is one more verse (or maybe two more -max) but that depends on the story. And the story depends on Charlie. And since Charlie is now only about 48 hours old, neither one of us knows him well enough to put him through hell or put him on easy street or (more likely) do something else with him. But I digress. Characters - and how their creators treat them - are worth a few threads of their own. best, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members elbow Posted August 24, 2005 Members Share Posted August 24, 2005 I am a little new to this... not songwriting, but the HC forum thing. I used HC as a great resource to read reviews on gear that I was thinking about buying.. then I just recently tried the boards. So many kindred spirits in one place. Why hadn't I tried this sooner? I digress.... I do write songs.. to me and many that hear them, some are great songs... but I ache reading threads that are going like "I wrote a book... or I've been writing for decades... blah blah blah.. so I know my {censored}." I WILL post lyrics on this board of some great songs that I wrote, or in the process of writing and I welcome all criticism.. but please do us all a favor and be constructive in doing so. Yes, there are basics to song structure.. that someone can look at.. hopefully has picked up on their own just playing alot of music.. and say "I get that." But here is the nugget... Some of our best painters, sculptors, writers, etc.. from all artistic mediums, took some classical training from a master or at a school, whatever.. and the BEST ones took what they learned in a slightly (or radically) different direction.. broke the mold so to speak. We study them, learn something, make it our own, and the cycle is repeated. I've seen abstract art that to me looked like someone pissed blood on a canvas, called it art, and some people looked at it and saw beauty. Who am I to judge? Songs, to me, are emotions.. all my songs are fragments of me.. some are bigger than others. The reason I think it is difficult to post lyrics and someone out there getting it.. is maybe several reasons.. But I think the biggest one is; Without hearing the music I composed to go with the lyrics, I don't think you will totally get to what I am trying share... same for the instrumental posts (please spare us the song vs composition stuff). There is a lot of emotion in music.. and it should stir us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members riffmeister Posted August 25, 2005 Members Share Posted August 25, 2005 Originally posted by ToxicBass I'm new to the boards. It would seem this songwriting board should be "the place to be". But there doesn't seem to be any sharing of information, just the occasional opinion of someones heart-felt effort at songwriting. I for example have a Tascam PortaII tape, run Windows 98 at home and have dial-up. I also have a big fat mortgage and a family to feed. I have no way to produce or post Mp3's. The best I can do is post lyrics. I posted some and then deleted the posts. Why? There doesn't seem to be any interest in songwriting (at least not mine). Some of you guys have years of knowledge and experience to share with us peons. Are you afraid someone will rip-off your material? Hell, you can have mine if you can make it go. Some of the boards are overcrowded with off-topic crap and the occasional "Dude like you only have 12 posts and you got nothin to say". Gee, I would really love to comment on all the crap I don't know about, just so I can have all those posts like you. I know lots of people who can play an instrument; none of which can write a song. I don't play bass very well and I play guitar even worse. One thing I can do is mix words and melody; crudely structured, I call them- songs. Maybe not ones you like but I created them. I came here to learn about something I like to do from people who know how to do it. This board could and should be the best and most creative of all the forums; the board everyone wants to read. You can tell me to shut the F'ck up- but I ain't goin' away. I just like to fart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MikeLewisMusic Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Getting away from all the technicalities, you personally can write in any way you want. Go for it, that's what creativity is about. Keep in mind, though, that putting your art (and yourself) out there for critical review takes a really strong disposition. If you've submitted any songs for critical review in "the industry", you already know what I mean. As an art, there are no limits. Go for it. If you want your music to be marketable, you have to live with the limits the industry puts on music (which in my opinion, pretty much sucks a lot of the creativity out of songwriting, but that's the game if you want to make money on your music). Anytime you put forth your music for public opinion and feedback, you are opening up to blatant criticism. Either you can take it or you can't. Often I can't, so I don't float it out there for every Tom, Dick and Harry (my parent's generation's saying, sorry) to critique. You want pro critiques, send it to pros. They are more brutal than people on this board, let me assure you. But are you looking to be a pro? Write your music for you, for your own self-fulfillment. That's what art's about. The rest is just commercialism, for the "lucky" few who can make money at their art. I say "lucky" because they ultimately have to compromise their art to make it marketable, so who is really the lucky one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Aaron Cheney Posted September 1, 2005 Members Share Posted September 1, 2005 Originally posted by MikeLewisMusic ... they ultimately have to compromise their art to make it marketable, so who is really the lucky one? I disagree. Creativity and "rules" are not mutually exclusive. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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