Members skempe Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 this is a thread that's straight up for all of us who love to play music to lead others in worship of God, whether it be in front of 7,000 people or just 3. you love to use your musical talents to lead others to God. I live in Atlanta and play in worship bands and lead by myself, both in contemporary and traditional services and at camps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 What does this have to do with songwriting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 Well, we've had some discussion of various forms of devotional and worship music here in the songwriting forum. It's a subject that interests me, though it may not interest everyone. But, of course this is not the place for ministry but rather for a discussion of songwriting. One thing... it might be hard for some church going folks to take you seriously with that signature line, skempe. __________________ got a problem with me playing emo rock? suck my 9's. I'm pretty sure Jesus used a .44! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mattyc146 Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 Ive been looking for a forum where I can discuss gear with other christians that are leading worship, and in christian bands, just to develop new tecniques and get a good dosage of GAS. If only the mods could make a new forum for it!!??!!?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Corwin81 Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 I've noticed that there seems to be enough talk in the various forums that praise and worship music could exist in it's own sub-forum if so desired. Definitely in effects. Maybe topics could be a bit more free for spiritual discussion as well in that forum(but then again that could open up a can of worms too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mattyc146 Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 I love the idea just for amps, effects, guitars and stuff, quite honestly I dont think the spiritual discussion would fly. I would love it but it would be like a finch with a cinderblock tied to its foot. We should get the mods to approve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 10, 2008 Members Share Posted July 10, 2008 Good luck with that, guys! As SW forum mod, I try to keep things toned down in this forum, ask people to try to keep a respectful, professional demaner, I have little patience for insults, I ask folks to put content warnings on threads about songs with disturbing content (and there definitely are some)... but I don't police people's language, as a rule, so one will see some, let's say, colorful expressions. (Actualy, many of them are boring and unimaginative, but, you know...) I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sites oriented to professional worship musicians (possibly in different flavors of worship for those disinclined to professional ecumenicalism)... and I'd be interested in adding any such to the SW Forum Resource List in the sticky at the top of the forum. But I'd also hate to rob this venue of the insight and potential contributions of the devout or spiritually inclined. Jesus was not alone among spiritual leaders and moral teachers who urged their followers to 'walk among men' and lead by example. That said, I think it's also important to keep this a proselytization-free zone. Inside a thread related to a religious song, I think we can afford rather wide latitude for discussion -- as long as things stay respectful -- but overt proselytization from any religious source -- or arguments about religion or doctrine rather than discussions of songs -- will receive the same summary fate as blatant self-promotion. In a forum which must attempt to balance the sensibilities and rights of a wide range of people of different faiths and belief systems, I hope this will prove a workable, happy medium which will allow meaningful discussion of a wide range of songwriting issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 I've been writing and recording since the mid '80s and have been involved in the Worship Community in my church for about that long as well. I'm currently collecting material (and a few more contributors) for an Alternative Christian Indie release under my pseudonym (my name here as well as on most other forums I frequent). I have several pieces selected, and as soon as the personnel is in place, we will begin reworking them and recording in my PC-based MIDI home project studio. Recently I attended a Worship Conference with Brenton Brown, Tim Highes, Al Gordon, JD Walt and others. They covered everything from songwriting methods (which differed greatly between Tim and Brenton), introducing new music to your team (which Tim demonstrated live for us, with the studio musicians they'd hired for the conference), continuing education, practice, focus, etc. It was a very full day, with TONS of note taking, lol! I'm mostly in the Synth and Recording forums here, and I can't tell you how many CCM/Worship people there seem to be here at HC! I think a forum dedicated to the specific challenges tackled within both the Christian markets as well as in Worship leading would be a great addition here. The only challenge in such a forum would be to try to damper the "God sucks" trolls, and the potential (immature) Christian backlash. As long as the trolls weren't fed and were occasionally weeded out, I think it would be fine. It would also need to stay as ON topic as possible, to also avoid potential fires from getting started. A "read before posting" Sticky outlining some very basic respectful guidelines and careful Moderation should be sufficient. I'm new here, but I've Moderated at a couple of the largest forums on the planet (VwVortex, CarLounge, Motive, etc) before, and would be willing to help out here. Who's with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm not part of that field, but it sounds like a noble and interesting endeavor. As you suggest, trolling would, of course, be an issue, but with active moderation, and zero tolerance for breaking the forum rules, as well as a firm hand tamping down internecine disputes, which of course, can pop up, I suspect a friendly, collegial atmosphere could be maintained. One of my friends was a mod for some time on the unorthodox Christian site, www.ShipOfFools.com, and they seemed to have a much bigger problem with people inside the greater Christian community than they did with the occasional atheist or Satanist. The 'outsiders' tended to make a quick shot and get out whereas some of those offended by other folks' approach to Christianity just couldn't seem to let go, no matter how often they were banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rabott13 Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm in! i've been playing guitar and keys for my youth for the last 3 or so years. i actually just got back from leading with my band at some youth camp stuff, playing as the in cabin band.. lots of fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 One of my friends was a mod for some time on the unorthodox Christian site, www.ShipOfFools.com, and they seemed to have a much bigger problem with people inside the greater Christian community than they did with the occasional atheist or Satanist. The 'outsiders' tended to make a quick shot and get out whereas some of those offended by other folks' approach to Christianity just couldn't seem to let go, no matter how often they were banned. Unfortunately that is a very real part of it. It seems the closer you get to someone else's beliefs without exactly matching them, the more real the possibility of offending them. These are all issues that would need to be carefully thought through (esp. how to handle when it pops up), carefully worded and posted in the "Read before posting" sticky. Simple rules such as "feel free to post your opinion, but do it with respect", "respect the opinions posted by others", "be willing to agree to disagree", "your pastor/priest/rabbi does not work here, we're all here to help one another, but if you need real help, please seek it from professionals" , etc. posted with more detail in easy bullet points. Starting a new Catholic/Protestant war via HC would be a real shame, so a constant, firm, but caring hand would have to be applied via Moderation. Maybe this could be a forum of restricted access, where members could be expelled from this section if they get out of hand, without impacting their ability to remain on the rest of HC? This would relieve a lot of the 're-joining' by 'banned' members, as well. Just thinking out loud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members krystledawne Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm all for it as long as we all check our union cards at the door........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 I'm all for it as long as we all check our EGOS at the door........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 11, 2008 Members Share Posted July 11, 2008 Hey, Michael, you seem like a solid and pretty wised-up guy, but I want to hip you to a little thing that drives some people nuts... I know you weren't trying to slip anything over on anyone and were really just making a clever riff on krystledawne's comment immediately above it, but editing a comment inside a quote box is pretty frowned on in a lot of BB circles -- since it can lead to confusion about what was actually said. Of course, in a case like this, I don't think anyone's going to be confused about your benign motivations... but once or twice I've had people change a BB quotation from me in a heated discussion (they said they were being "sarcastic" but how is someone to know who thinks it's really a quote?) and I laid it out in no uncertain terms that I considered it a direct lie. Just a heads up... ...for when you get in the fray in any new forums that may pop up. PS... I think, of course, it should be open to all devotional musicians, but I think that's probably implicit. Might be kind of fun to see the gospel folks and charismatics interacting with the sufi mystics... maybe not all that much distance in some ways. As Flannery O'Connor said... Everything that rises must converge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 No problem, someone had quote-edited me in another thread here, so I thought it was kosher - this forum is a bit different temperament than many others I've been on (no censored words, etc)...Sorry for the confusion. I think a forum like the one we're discussing would provide a very interesting array of personalities and beliefs, which would hopefully translate into a huge diversion of styles and techniques - leading to some genuinely interesting discussion. Tip-toeing over the land mines in the meantime would be the trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 Yeah, I knew where you were coming from and in another context I might not have mentioned it (or perhaps noticed it) but because the subject of BB contretemps was on my mind, it just seemed like something I ought to comment on here in a friendly venue, and it might save you some headaches later. (That said, I doubt you'd playfully edit a quote in the midst of a fiery dispute, so my concerns are probably moot. ) The mention of BB practice and culture is an interesting one. Of course, I've long been aware that different BBs have different cultures -- I was part of the dial up BB scene in the late 80s so I've seen a lot of BB/forums over two decades -- but when I came on board as a mod in this forum, it gave me a new feeling for not just the sensibilities of visitors but the enormously wide range of sensibilities. And practices. As well as the seriousness and intensity with which some folks participate in online forums. It can be very real for some folks. Happily, I've found the folks who frequent the Songwriting Forum to mostly have their heads and hearts in the right place. I've been pleasantly surprised at how little trouble it is. It's a pretty good crew, considering songwriters are generally seen to be a bunch of maladjusted, moody, misanthropes... (I know I am. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 7sickstrings Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 Maybe this is a dumb question, but in regards to the posts from Mattyc146 and Corwin81 at the top of this thread; What's the difference between discussing gear with Christians/worship bands and secular musicians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rabott13 Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 while i'm sure many of the same topics and issues would come up gear wise, whether speaking to a devout christian or a secular musician. having a specific section can provide a place for artist in the christian or p&w world to discuss not only what gear is being used, but also to come and discuss songs, talk about the experiences of playing on the night for different events, talk about the culture or issues that due come up inside a worship team. places like TGP have a section to post their p&w rigs, and other christian forums have similar discussions and not only discuss and show our gear as guitar players but also give a chance for bass, drum, vocal, keys and what other instrument have you, a place to discuss with like minded individuals who are called to serve God in a greater way. and possibly even provide some insight to people who are curious about what we are doing as artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 The religious music biz shares much in common with the general music business, of course, but there are some real differences. The Christian segment of that market is, of course, much more developed as a business than other religiously affiliated segments, with specialized vendors and service support. Mega-churches have made worship music and sound a big dollar business in terms of the kind of money that changes hands. But that spills over to vendors and services for all worship musicians. One thing that might take a little getting used to for some folks would be going elbow to elbow with those of substantially different faiths. I'd like to think that's no problem. But, as Michael so aptly pointed out, above, sometimes the biggest quarrels erupt between those who are least far apart, with respect to doctrine and practice. That said, I think musicians are often a bit quicker to accept other professionals, even though there may be social or other differences. Let's not forget, one of the first big sectors of public life to begin becoming racially integrated was music; as far back as the 1920s, black and white musicians who could not sit down and eat a meal together in many restaurants or ride next to each other on a lot of public transportation were playing and recording together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 That is a seriously most excellent point. I hadn't thought of it that way, but it's just one more thing that makes me very proud to be on the fringe of this business. THANK you for mentioning it! As for the whole "why a Christian section" question, most of it has been covered already, but I thought I'd add my support to the idea. As rabott mentioned, specific songs are generally universal throughout most of CCM, though there are about a million different ways to approach each one (just like most other aspects of "church"). "Hey guys, we're doing 'Come, Now Is the Time to Worship' again this weekend...I've got a whole new idea for the verses, using the root as a vamp and only adding a 4th-to-5th tag in the last measure of each phrase - what do you think?" is a question that wouldn't have too much relevance in the general forums, but in a Worship setting, would be spot on with nearly everyone in there. This could immediately erupt into a 5 page discussion on different methods of playing that one song, tactics for breathing life into old or overplayed songs, why new life is important in a song 'if it's all about Jesus anyways', the importance of keeping a congregation 'interested' in what's going on, musically, to help them enter in to worship, etc., etc., etc. "I was listening to the new Kutless CD and wondered..." is another one that would include at least half of the group (and possibly introduce a not-well-enough-known band to the rest) and could lead to discussion regarding instrumentation, guitar pedals, settings, other songs relating to that group that may have a purpose in Worship, etc., etc. Yeah, this is an entire sub-group that is so focused on one purpose that, while they can happily contribute to "general" forums, really would benefit from another specific forum to their cause. There is so much detail and so many nuances to their craft that there simply isn't room to cover it all in general forums without the potential for annoying non-Worship people with all the CCM discussion. Let's hope the powers that be are listening, and that something like this could come to fruition. Personally, I'd simply make a "Worship Leading" segment, and leave the individual instruments and other specifics in the same lump. Some direction on thread titles is all that is needed to navigate it, and too many 'sub-sections' could defeat the purpose of unity in this sub-forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rabott13 Posted July 12, 2008 Members Share Posted July 12, 2008 ^^^+1 for sure! I think the thing to keep in mind is that if this were to become a forum section that it would not so much be a religious division from the rest of the other sections, but a reference to worship and the culture surrounding it as a genre.. if that makes much sense. where we can do as micheal blue said, discuss theory behind songs, dispute the business sides of things as well as say "hey passions this weekend here anyone going", "did anyone catch what gear so-and-so was using?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members smaltonian Posted July 13, 2008 Members Share Posted July 13, 2008 HEY MICHAEL BLUE.... I do alot of CCM.....as well as country.....My new song "HOLDIN' ON" was posted in this Forum recently.... Though it has a wide appeal it's roots are firmly entrenched in CCM.... Give it a listen Steve Altonian www.soundclick.com/stevealtonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rabott13 Posted July 13, 2008 Members Share Posted July 13, 2008 I dig your song a lot! normally i don't get into the country/top 40ish styling but i really liked yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Michael Blue Posted July 13, 2008 Members Share Posted July 13, 2008 HEY MICHAEL BLUE.... Nice, clean recording! Great instrumentation (no flubs, lol!) and very clear vocals! I'm not a real 'country' guy, but the quality of your recording is supurb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members iamgodsvek Posted July 13, 2008 Members Share Posted July 13, 2008 which Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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