WORSHIP LEADING

[iamgodsvek]

worshiping God almighty alone give you the knowledge the thoughts the feelings the idea in writing songs.....

 

 

Christian music in general annoys the piss out of me, not to offend, i find it ignorant and poorly thought out as most of it is quite reptitive... such speaks my ultra contempt of christianity. Satanism and the Occult i find much more attractive and real, this is just my honest opinion

 

but leads me to another question

 

Satanic black metal or death metal made for the praising of Satan, Lucifer, or any other Monotheist of even Polytheist god, would this be considered "worship music" or does this seemingly lonely genre have to be condemed to the quote-un-quote holy trinity?

 

my $0.2 only

[iamgodsvek]

funny you say this. i found out an hour ago im going to play bass for a church camp.

church camp?
do those get taxed or not since they part of a church? i've always wondered about that, they should tax churches...fix the budget

[Michael Blue]

but leads me to another question Satanic black metal or death metal made for the praising of Satan, Lucifer, or any other Monotheist of even Polytheist god, would this be considered "worship music" or does this seemingly lonely genre have to be condemed to the quote-un-quote holy trinity? my $0.2 only

 

 

I believe all beliefs would have to be allowed in the forum, at least initially, for the sake of PC non-discrimination, but I doubt there would be enough members interested in most other forms of worship for it to be effective for them. Specific beliefs that are at odds with one another (Satanism/Christianity) would be an issue I'd leave to the current Admins...Since the purpose of both beliefs is to convert the members of the other, I would personally think they would need to remain seperate, just to avoid the potential powder keg of two such very different purposes asking for advice in such close quarters. Likewise for all genres, if they had enough members to support a forum of their own.

[iamgodsvek]

I believe all beliefs would have to be allowed in the forum, at least initially, for the sake of PC non-discrimination, but I doubt there would be enough members interested in most other forms of worship for it to be effective for them. Specific beliefs that are at odds with one another (Satanism/Christianity) would be an issue I'd leave to the current Admins...Since the purpose of both beliefs is to convert the members of the other, I would personally think they would need to remain seperate, just to avoid the potential powder keg of two such very different purposes asking for advice in such close quarters. Likewise for all genres, if they had enough members to support a forum of their own.

of course it would have to be segregated from those wanting to ignite such kegs of gunpowder...though not so shocking there are ranks of these individuals on both sides, such as with every great war...though the ache to achieve superior tolerance is a bold one it is not to be confused with stupidity...only futility. we'll always fight over our ideals, at least we're not burning people at the stake or stoning people or anything...wait, man did that already

[Michael Blue]

...at least we're not burning people at the stake or stoning people or anything...wait, man did that already

...On both sides...

In fact, I'd wager more Christians than Satanists have been martyred throughout history.

[Michael Blue]

Any other thoughts on this?

 

I've started a poll, please vote, particularly those in favor, lol!

[mxclod]

Why are you so proud of Christianity?Why are you so arrogant to think that you should deserve some sort of special respect or treatment for being a certain religion--or for that matter a certain nationality.You should be posting your music and trying to get as much respect from everyone on the forum as possible through just that--Your music---yourself-- the person you are.Your music will not be deemed bad or good because you are a Christian--at least not by true musicians.They will hear you and your composition and review it for what it's worth without any care what religion you are---or nationality.
Mahalia Jackson is turning in her grave!

[iamgodsvek]

...On both sides... In fact, I'd wager more Christians than Satanists have been martyred throughout history.

i think there's been alot more public christians than satanists throughout history though too, alot more christians have put themselves in the position to be killed than satanists, in which case i would clearly label them idiots instead of martyrs. and i'm saying that not as a satanist, since i am in fact not one, nor am i a christian. my only qualm gainst the church (besides the indoctrination and the fact it's all bull{censored}) is the fact that they're just trying to become a government and guess what, they've done it, AND the fact the seperation of church and state is clearly being violated all over the board. churches aren't taxed is {censored}ing BULL{censored}! tax em tax em and tax em some more i say, fix the {censored}in budget, and if any priest {censored}s with any kids i say we go roman and crucify the mother{censored}ers, but hey, thats just me and my contempt for christianity

[Michael Blue]

...christians...i would clearly label them idiots...the church...it's all bull{censored}...they're just trying to become a government...the seperation of church and state is clearly being violated...{censored}ing BULL{censored}! tax em...fix the {censored}in budget, and if any priest {censored}s with any kids i say we go roman and crucify the mother{censored}ers, but hey, thats just me and my contempt for christianity

 

 

My point, exactly.

 

Had I posted something like that for some posting a certain political view or something, I'd have likely been banned.

 

The prevalent Anti-Christian theme on these boards necessitates a separate forum. I know there are some Christians trying to co-exist here, but the staff seems comfortable allowing hate to run rampant. You're missing a HUGE segment of the market by driving us off...And you are driving us off.

[Frets99]

Good luck with that, guys ! As SW forum mod, I try to keep things toned down in this forum, ask people to try to keep a respectful, professional demaner, I have little patience for insults, I ask folks to put content warnings on threads about songs with disturbing content (and there definitely are some)... but I don't police people's language, as a rule, so one will see some, let's say, colorful expressions . (Actualy, many of them are boring and unimaginative, but, you know... ) I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sites oriented to professional worship musicians (possibly in different flavors of worship for those disinclined to professional ecumenicalism)... and I'd be interested in adding any such to the SW Forum Resource List in the sticky at the top of the forum. But I'd also hate to rob this venue of the insight and potential contributions of the devout or spiritually inclined. Jesus was not alone among spiritual leaders and moral teachers who urged their followers to 'walk among men' and lead by example. That said, I think it's also important to keep this a proselytization-free zone. Inside a thread related to a religious song, I think we can afford rather wide latitude for discussion -- as long as things stay respectful -- but overt proselytization from any religious source -- or arguments about religion or doctrine rather than discussions of songs -- will receive the same summary fate as blatant self-promotion. In a forum which must attempt to balance the sensibilities and rights of a wide range of people of different faiths and belief systems, I hope this will prove a workable, happy medium which will allow meaningful discussion of a wide range of songwriting issues.

 

 

Very well said. Seems like a tightrope but it shouldn't be if everyone plays nice. If we, the praise and worship song writers/players wish to be part of an overall songwriting playing community, we should play by the community rules.

[Michael Blue]

Very well said. Seems like a tightrope but it shouldn't be if everyone plays nice. If we, the praise and worship song writers/players wish to be part of an overall songwriting playing community, we should play by the community rules.

 

 

blue2blue's post mentioned "respect", which - if you've attempted to post a worship song here, you know does not exist on these forums.

 

You mention "if everyone plays nice"...See my first comment.

 

blue2blue, you win. I should've known no one would actually read these thread before throwing their $.02 in, that's how forums are. People automatically assume a separate forum would be some kind of "perk" and immediately oppose it, without thinking it through, or reading the reasoning for it.

HC is a forum which is VERY, VERY unfriendly to Christians, though very tolerant of nearly all other forums of religion/belief/agnosticism. If the mods and Admins here are happy to let it remain that way, I'll just stay out of the songwriting forum and just chat about gear.

 

I'm very disappointed by the attitudes here...Everyone's expected to be respectful unless someone posts something Christian, then it's open season...Really a shame.

[the-good-way]

I voted "I would Hate", not b/c "hate" expresses my feeling on the issue (my view is clser to "I don't think it's a good idea" )

I fund this idea particularly concerning


I believe all beliefs would have to be allowed in the forum, at least initially, for the sake of PC non-discrimination, but I doubt there would be enough members interested in most other forms of worship for it to be effective for them. Specific beliefs that are at odds with one another (Satanism/Christianity) would be an issue I'd leave to the current Admins...Since the purpose of both beliefs is to convert the members of the other, I would personally think they would need to remain seperate, just to avoid the potential powder keg of two such very different purposes asking for advice in such close quarters.


I dont feel this need be the case "Since the purpose of both beliefs is to convert the members of the other"

and I find exclusivity and divisiveness is already starting to leak in I believe all beliefs would have to be allowed in the forum, at least initially, for the sake of PC non-discrimination, and ...I would personally think they would need to remain seperate...

I have other concerns, such as, "is a music forum the appropriate place?". There seems to be some inconsistency in purpose


In Worship, not only are we concerned with musicality and applied skill/talent, but we're equally concerned with how effectively those values are applied when measured by their ability to cause a congregation to be able to freely enter into a time of worshiping God. That's really the key, and it is completely unique to this genre. Since that is the singular cause for - and goal of - this type of music, it becomes nearly meaningless to measure it by any other scale.


If one thing is the 'singular cause and goal', I dont believe the two things would be having 'equal concern'

[mxclod]

I think being proud is the main reason you let people know your religious belief in the first place.Hence I believe you automatically are feeling like you deserve something special here.

All music is much more involved than simple music theory Not just "Worship music".

However,I hear worship when I listen to Gospel music and when it is real it hits me smack in the heart just like any other good piece of music that comes straight from the soul with no phoney crap on the seams--music is a universal language--it cuts across all barriers and borders---
I know what you are trying to do here...Create a forum for people who want to write Christian music---and you will make it non-exclusionary--right.You are already creating a barrier when you seclude yourself and others "Like you" to a special place.
I really do not have a problem with your being Christian nor would I have a problem listening to a song of yours and if it is good enough giving it a critique without having a problem with the worship side so long as the lyrics don't denegrate other religions or gay people!
State of worship?hmmm sounds rather scary


As far as the "Contempt"--I do not believe this contempt is towards Christianity nor people who worship--It is contempt towards Arrogance

[Michael Blue]

mxclod, all I can say is "wow".

 

How you get that from what I've posted shows much more about you than it does the topic at hand here. I suggest you check your own feelings and motives before attempt to post a supposedly unbiased opinion here.

 

I even told a self-proclaimed "anti-Christian" (not sure what form of the occult he's into, but he did mention the occult specifically) that he not only would be WELCOME in that forum, but that I would want him PROTECTED, and I quote: "from the same BS I'm trying to avoid".

 

Yeah, that's arrogance and a desire to want something special "just for us"... Que the huge rolling eyes of sarcasm.

 

 

Degradation of other religions and gay people?! Get real.

Try paying attention, I've posted 3 songs in this forum previously, and they strictly deal with the adoration of God...There is NO place for degradation in Praise and Worship, and there is no place for your form of offensive blind hate on this forum.

 

Your post is exactly the kind of garbage a dedicated forum could effectively weed out.

[Michael Blue]

Just nevermind guys. No one understands and I'm not pursuing it any further.

[the-good-way]

I believe that others simply may have a different understanding from yours and come to different conclusions about the propriety of the idea

[Michael Blue]

Agreed.

[iamgodsvek]

[iamgodsvek]

sorry, i had to do it

[Michael Blue]

LOL! Hadn't seen that one.

[Mattyc146]

Im sorry Blue the idea we came up with seems as if it is an epic fail. Ive been watching you geting eaten up in here, but I want to make it known I still fully support the idea. I have posted numerous threads on here and I have been criticized for the ideas of christianity and my love for the Lord. It is ashame we cant post our ideas without a nasty remark being made. Im still all for it!!

[ProgRock11]

Hey Michael Blue. The idea is a good one, I wouldn't give up on it so quickly. It just needs to be thought over and discussed with admins. I'm sure a resolution is out there...so keep at it.

[Michael Blue]

*Sigh*...

OK then...

What's the next hurdle to tackle?

[Scott W. Riley]

This is something where I have mixed feelings on it. Basically I am a Christian and it's very important to me, but you probably wouldn't consider the songs that I write under the Christian genre anyway. In fact, I work hard to make sure that they aren't overtly Christian. And what's the major difference between the "Christian" and "secular" industry? Not much right now. They're set up under the same business model. They do have different markets, but the ingredients of the sausage are still the same if you catch my drift.

 

I once heard Townes Van Zandt (the Self-Destructive Hobo Saint and amazing songwriter) say in an interview that there's two types of songs out there; the blues and zip-a-dee-doo-dah. I think that you can apply that to the "Christian" genre of music. It's all happy, comtemplative, perky, and cheery. It also sounds the same. You can listen to 20 different "Christian" bands and you can tell they're copying one another; following the U2/Coldplay style of sound.

 

As for me, I am much more comfortable with the blues than I am with zip-a-dee-doo-dah. And while yes, there are times in life where you feel like celebrating a good day, there seems to be a lot more darkness in this world right now than there is light. And it's like the last 2 stanzas from Mr. Cash's song "Man In Black":

 

Well, there's things that never will be right I know.

And things need changin' everywhere you go.

But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,

You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow everyday.

And tell the world that everything's okay.

But I'll try to carry off a lil' darkness on my back,

'Til things are brighter, I'm the man in black.

 

Why aren't there songs talking about finding God when you're walking home from the bars drunk off your ass and tired of life? What about singing about finding God after sleeping around with multiple girls for some time? I write about those things, because i've been there many times myself. It ain't pretty, but hey, at least it's based in reality. At least someone walking on the street can relate to that more so than "I will give You all my worship..." Yup, there's my $0.02 again...

[Michael Blue]

Actually, I was in the same boat you're in a while back.

I had NO exposure to the "other side" of Christian music.

 

Truth is, there is a lot of non "Sandi Patti" Christian music out there, and much of it is quite good, you just have to know where to look for it.

 

Some of my favorite stuff isn't overtly Christian, though knowing the history of the artists, etc., you know that it is. There are life experiences in them, etc., but there is a message...Sometimes a little hazy, but it's there.

That isn't "reading in" to a bunch of secular work, looking for a message...It's the real deal.

 

There have been some incredible Christian/Blues guys over the years, too.

www.christianblues.net has a LOT of artists available, and more have listenable demos on the site.

 

Phil Keaggy is largely considered the "best" guitarist to ever live.

When another "top shelf" guitarist was asked on a talk show: "What's it like, being the best guitarist that has ever lived?", he answered; "You'd have to ask the 9-fingered man.".

 

I don't know how to tell you how to get tapped into this stuff, I'm having a hard time myself, but there are alternative Christian stations out there, if you look hard enough. If you have XM (or AOL Instant Messenger, which has XM on it) you can look for Alt Christian channels there.

 

There is "real" Christian music out there...You just have to go find it...