Members Stackabones Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 http://www.berkleemusic.com/welcome/singer-songwriter-programs Five-course program: $5,377.50 Three-course program: $3,226.50 After completing either course, you will receive a Professional Singer-Songwriter Certificate. I wonder if there's an MFA in Songwriting being offered by a university in the USA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members speierg Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 The little John Mayer video on songwriting that was embedded on that page was pretty interesting. I've also seen video excerpts from other songwriting classes at Berklee that were quite intriguing. I'm sure the content they offer is quite good, but it does seem a little funny that you'd end up with a singer-songwriter certificate. I mean, where does that get you? Can you imagine showing up at a local performance venue and letting them know that you would like to book a show and when they ask you to give them a CD of your music, instead you just show them a laminated copy of your singer songwriter certificate. Boom! You're booked for a show that Friday night, baby! You're certified! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 If those programs parallel the performance courses at such institutions, particularly the commercial ones (like Berklee, but I'm particularly thinking of the newer, loan-mill business model schools), I could imagine a fair lot of those graduates working by formula and driven by technique. Just as there's stuff you can learn about playing your instrument from such institutions, there are techniques and approaches that can be taught and learned. On the performance front, I've heard a fair number of people from such programs over the years... and it's a mixed bag. Some had lots of chops and soul. Some had lots of chops. Ditto from people from nonprofit colleges and unis, of course. It's amazing what one can learn -- and where one can learn it. I have a friend -- he's a long haul trucker, now, because of the downturn in the music biz and his distaste for cruise ship gigs -- but he learned to play trumpet in the US Army (he'd never played music before and thought it sounded like something that might not get him shot during the Vietnam War era) -- but he ended up being Ray Charles' lead horn man for many, many years (even soloing in front of the Atlanta symphony in a gig where Ray only took my friend, Ted, and the Raylettes). Even though he'd never played an instrument before joining the army. I have another pal who was in a two year junior college, and needed a one unit class to make him full time. Even though he'd never played, no one in his family was musical, he took a music theory class -- "It sounded interesging," he said because he thought it would be more about psychology. The class wasn't exactly what he thought, but he did so well the music majors were going to him for tutoring. His instructor asked him what his instrument was and he said he didn't play. The instructor suggested it might be an interesting course of endeavor, given the way he took to harmonic theory. So, my friend, an African American who grew up listening to soul and blues, somehow became a classical guitar major -- and he's now a fine player who's performed in a number of high profile situations (he was even in the 'house band' in the Aly McBeal TV show, the band that played in the bar the characters apparently hung out in [i watched the show once trying to spot him and I sort of did -- he had long dreads at the time -- but I couldn't stomach that show at all so that was the last time]). So, you know, the right guy or gal in even a somewhat compromised learning situation can make something of it musically and career-wise (even if they end up eventually being a long haul trucker or teaching rich kids emo songs and Stairway to Heaven... ) I have a two year certificate in Commercial Music, Recording and I took it home, hung it in a dark corner of my flat, and pretty much never mentioned it when I went on studio gigs (although I wasn't shy about saying I'd gone through a couple of schools -- I actually went through two programs because I figured it was the best way to get experience -- but it was actually crucial to being well rounded, because one school was all studio time --if you had the gumption to put together your own projects -- and the other was mostly tutelage (there was a disastrous decision to accept the old custom made API board from GoldStar Studio [famous for the Wall of Sound Spector days], which was a nightmare to rebuild and had to be abandoned, meaning there was precious little hands on my second, final year, there). With regard to what I learned in those programs -- almost all the meaningful stuff came from my own initiative putting together my own sessions at the one school and in commercial studios (I started freelancing before I was out of either program), or from keeping my ears open and filing away every trick and technique I could possibly remember, saving it for a time when I might actually have access to decent compressors and such. (Actually the book-learning school had great gear but since there was almost no hands-on, it didn't mean that much... still I got to know the Neve sound, which is something I never would have been able to do at the other school [the gear they did have was mostly TASCAM, and precious little of it, and all of it double-used for live performances of the music and theater departments] or the low end studios that the punk and post-punk music I was interested in mostly got recorded in. FWIW, I'm not actually a big fan of the Neve sound, but that's neither here nor there [wouldn't mind a couple channels of it, mind you, it's a very usable flavor].) But most of my fellow students seemed destined to get out of the respective programs and say, "Gee, now what?" Precious few went on to work in the industry in the creative capacities for which they'd trained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 20, 2010 Moderators Share Posted February 20, 2010 It's a mystery. Some take programs like that and make something special with the info they receive... others... I have a good friend. He's been studying at a very prestigious music program off and on for years. Composition, performance, even things like Sitar technique. He has the remarkable inability to make music. His compositions lie flat on the page. No heart. Loads of studied technique though. He once remarked to me how much he hated an electronic artist because he , "Knew how it was done." As if, somehow the understanding of the process was more important than the artistic application of the process. A certificate from Berklee for singer/songwriter certainly won't mean anything... but to the right person, the info gained could be a bucket of gold. It has more to do with personal goals and realistic application of your skill, knowledge and heart. Some of that could quite possibly come during and even because of a program like that. But I'd damn well make sure I had plenty of all of the above before trusting a certificate program would provide me with them. Before I took the audio and acoustics programs at Columbia, I was already pretty natural at it. I was fooling Nashville song scouts into thinking my Cassette 4 track Portastudio demos were 24 track professional productions. The point? You don't take a course like that to attain the needed skills, you take it to refine your already existing and developed abilities and inclinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 does this mean all the songs I wrote, sing, and sold are not official?we people be asking for refunds now??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 I just want the time back I spent listening... I mean, it sounded good, and all... but now I just feel so cheated... I'll never get those three minuteses back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted February 20, 2010 Members Share Posted February 20, 2010 You don't take a course like that to attain the needed skills, you take it to refine your already existing and developed abilities and inclinations. Outside of the music world, you sometimes do the coursework to get an official stamp of achievement on something you're already good at. Hopefully, being a singer-songwriter won't come to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ontological Posted February 21, 2010 Members Share Posted February 21, 2010 Oh, just imagine the songs I could write if only I had that certificate! I could be another cookie write out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wwwjd Posted February 21, 2010 Members Share Posted February 21, 2010 I'm holding out for the "Songwriting MBA" thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted February 22, 2010 Members Share Posted February 22, 2010 I'd kill to take a songwriting program at Berklee, even though I'm just a hobbyist. Is it just me, or does there seem to be this stigma against popular musicians that receive formal training? Maybe it goes back to the 60s, where a handful of autodidactic virtuosos changed the direction of pop music. There was the punk movement, placing an emphasis on passion over technical skill. Also, pretty much all genres of African American music place a premium on authenticy. I guess it's fair to say going to class ain't rock-n-roll. Or maybe it's the whole youth thing. That's just the nature of the entertainment industry. If you haven't made it by 25 you never will. There's no time to waste hitting books. And that's a fair point too. Still, it seems like most artists would benefit from from some kind of schooling. There are simply so many hacks out there. And the idea that training stifles creativity is simply absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted February 22, 2010 Moderators Share Posted February 22, 2010 Before the late 60's / early 70's... the concept of filmmakers going to a school was thought to be absurd too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted February 22, 2010 Members Share Posted February 22, 2010 If I had the extra cash I would definitely go. It would be quite the learning opportunity. And I have no doubt it would help me get jobs at coffee shops and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndThinkOfTexas Posted February 23, 2010 Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 Not to say this is a con, but this sort of feels like a ploy to take advantage of aspiring musicians. I think many artists are so eager to "make it" that they would convince themselves that all they needed is a little so-called Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dthraco Posted February 23, 2010 Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 After looking at the course requirements, I ordered the Songriwting Harmony book. Songwriting for Dummies helped me. No reason this book won't. And $25 isn't much considering how much the actual course is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members AndThinkOfTexas Posted February 23, 2010 Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 After looking at the course requirements, I ordered the Songriwting Harmony book. Songwriting for Dummies helped me. No reason this book won't. And $25 isn't much considering how much the actual course is. Haha, I took a long look at the books, also. My thoughts were the same: it can't hurt and if they use it in the course, then it could be a more affordable alternative, ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grantsabbath Posted February 23, 2010 Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 I think if you went in completely honest with yourself, it'd be a great experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted February 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 I think if you went in completely honest with yourself, it'd be a great experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members grantsabbath Posted February 23, 2010 Members Share Posted February 23, 2010 I mean like...no expectations. Just taking it for what it is. Obviously IF you had money to just throw around. Which I don't. hahah Like...not expecting to come out the next James Taylor, Paul Simon or Neil Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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