Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Songwriting is tough. Just saying. Maybe that's why there are so many cover bands. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Care to elaborate? Running's tough, until you start running all the time and find it tough not to run. Your clock starts ticking and you realize your body is saying, "Go run!!" and you're happy to, you need to, once you start doing it all the time. So, I can defiantly relate with how it is tough, but at the same time, there are ways to make it as natural as brushing your teeth. Think how much time you spend brushing your teeth. Taking a shower. But now, that's just time you accept that needs to be spent. Same with writing. You just do it regularly enough until it starts to hurt when you don't do it. Now, doing it well... that's a different story! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members xdrummer Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Songwriting is easy................writing well is hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Elaborate? Sure. So a couple of years ago I wrote my first lyrics. Easy peasy, man, they rolled out. Before long I had a notebook full of stuff. That's when I joined HC, trying to figure out what to do next. Well, next turn out to be "learn to play guitar" or all I have is a notebook. That's been tough. Finally I've learned enough guitar to be dangerous and I've started putting my first song to music. All those great "tight" lyrics wouldn't fit anything. Back to work. So, now I've got the basic structure worked up for the song and I'm now learning to play it, learning to sing and play simultaneously and finishing up with the opening, closing, transitions and such. It's an unforgiving master. The closer I get to a decent production, the smaller and more difficult the issues become. While it's one of the tougher things I've ever done it's also one of the biggest thrills. It's soooooo close right now I can taste it but I also know there's so much more to do. Anyone who naively thinks a great song just happens is delusional. There's nothing easy about a good song. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 It's soooooo close right now I can taste it but I also know there's so much more to do. lol - that's an illusion. Regardless of how much progress you make, the goal line remains stubbornly just out of reach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Fortunately I'm the type who takes to that kind of challenge. I have a goal set that by the 15th of April I'll have a recording of it. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 11, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 11, 2010 Elaborate? Sure. So a couple of years ago I wrote my first lyrics. Easy peasy, man, they rolled out. Before long I had a notebook full of stuff. That's when I joined HC, trying to figure out what to do next. Well, next turn out to be "learn to play guitar" or all I have is a notebook. That's been tough. Finally I've learned enough guitar to be dangerous and I've started putting my first song to music. All those great "tight" lyrics wouldn't fit anything. Back to work. So, now I've got the basic structure worked up for the song and I'm now learning to play it, learning to sing and play simultaneously and finishing up with the opening, closing, transitions and such. It's an unforgiving master. The closer I get to a decent production, the smaller and more difficult the issues become. While it's one of the tougher things I've ever done it's also one of the biggest thrills. It's soooooo close right now I can taste it but I also know there's so much more to do. Anyone who naively thinks a great song just happens is delusional. There's nothing easy about a good song. EG I see what you're saying. Yeah. I have though, had two different types of experiences. One where I didn't enjoy it, and one where I did. If I try to make it a game and have fun and think about and tinker constantly in my head and twist and turn... ...that fun spirit tends to yield a lot more usable fodder than the sweated out stuff. It's hard work, but it's fun work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Yes. It's fun but very challenging. I kinda started all this mess just fooling around but the more it seemed possible, the more excited I became. It seems to get more difficult every step of the way but that only makes me push that much harder. Some days I feel like a builder with no blueprint, though. That's the "arg" part. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 The closer I get to a decent production, the smaller and more difficult the issues become. That Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 Fortunately I'm the type who takes to that kind of challenge. I have a goal set that by the 15th of April I'll have a recording of it. EG April is the cruellest month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 April is the cruellest month. How so? I'm imagining that my backwards process hasn't helped. I've always been a word guy and that's where it begins with me. A story I want to tell. Trying to fit that into music after the fact is not easy. The details I guess I'm fascinated with right now are the little details that keep a song from being good. Having all the words flow lyrically is intersting. Here's an example. The final stanza of the song in question is a wrapping up of lessons learned. The sentiment of a particular line is that many tough experiences have passed and the narrator is reconciling that and understanding that his surroundings don't dictate his happiness. The original lines were: Lots of freaksHave come and goneAnd I consumed my share of bathtub ginNow I come to knowThat my state of mindIsn't really connected to where I sitSo I packed my bluesBack in my bagsAnd told myself I think it's time to git I liked the humor of the freaks and gin, however, after singing it a few thousand times, I became increasingly disappointed with the flow. It just didn't have the melodic feel it needed. After much agonizing I came up with: Far too many daysWere once tomorrowsConvinced myself there ain't no way to winNow I come to knowMy state of mindAin't no way connected to where I sitSo I packed my bluesAway in my bagsAnd told myself I think it's time to git Anyway, it seems so minor but when you hear it there's a profound difference in the way it flows. It's amazing to me how such minor details can have such an impact. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LondonSi Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 For me self-doubt is the worst thing....I don't get it in any section of life except making music...that's what makes it difficult for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 11, 2010 Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 How so? APRIL is the cruellest month, breeding Lilacs out of the dead land, mixing Memory and desire, stirring Dull roots with spring rain. Winter kept us warm, covering Earth in forgetful snow, feeding A little life with dried tubers. Summer surprised us, coming over the Starnbergersee With a shower of rain; we stopped in the colonnade, And went on in sunlight, into the Hofgarten, And drank coffee, and talked for an hour. Bin gar keine Russin, stamm' aus Litauen, echt deutsch. And when we were children, staying at the archduke's, My cousin's, he took me out on a sled, And I was frightened. He said, Marie, Marie, hold on tight. And down we went. In the mountains, there you feel free. I read, much of the night, and go south in the winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 11, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 11, 2010 D'oh. Of course. Sorry, the mind is downtown today. London: Don't doubt yourself. There are many others all too willing to take of that for you. I've had to teach myself and my awful voice how to sing in all this adventure as well. A buddy of mine convinced me to start out with some karaoke. My arm still hurts from the twisting. Anyway, there I was in a bar all set to do misty Mountain Hop. I figured the only chance I had was to just let it rip. I just knew through the whole thing it was horrendous but when the song ended, people were on their feet. I realised then and there that my own self doubt was unfounded and my confidence level shot way up. Now I've been doing some sitting in with my brother's band and I'm getting some good reviews. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rockinrobby Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 For me? It's easy... WHEN it's easy? It comes in spurts? I can't force it? When it comes though? I don't do it, "I watch it happen". It happens, I'm there, I'm the one typing the words, and playing the chords? But, well... It's difficult to describe. But when it happens? For me? It's easy. When it's not happening, then I could never do it, so I can relate to what you're saying if it's a period for me "when it's not happening". Because I cannot force it, it pours from me like urine from a homeless person on the streets of the inner city, I cannot control it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eclepto Funk Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 no matter how good you write, you can always write better And when we were children, staying at the archduke's, My cousin's, he took me out on a sled, And I was frightened. He said, Marie, Marie, hold on tight. And down we went. Eliot was a fragging pervert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 no matter how good you write, you can always write better And when we were children, staying at the archduke's, My cousin's, he took me out on a sled, And I was frightened. He said, Marie, Marie, hold on tight. And down we went. Eliot was a fragging pervert Jealous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LeonardScaper Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 Always been easy for me.......never been a chore. But then I am a firm believer in that old tenet that says....you can't push the river. So I don't. If the songs come, I write 'em. If they don't I just play guitar. The tune you're working on looks to be a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 Robby, I didn't intend to imply that it wasn't happening but rather that fine tuning the product to its ultimate point is difficult and requires much attention to a lot of detail. Here's another example of how picky it's getting right now. This change happened last night. What was: So I headed south Down to Orleans Heard about good times on Bourbon Street Food and drink Out all the time To a country boy that sounded pretty sweet Now I undulged A bit too much Suppose that's where my troubles all began I woke up With an ugly girl In retrospect I think she was a man Has become: So I headed south Down to New Orleans Heard about good times on Bourbon Street All the pretty girls Dancing through the night To acountry boy that sounded mighty sweet It was too much whiskey Lord and too much wine Suppose that's where my troubles all began Sleeping in my bed Was a homely lady Looking back now I think she was a man Seems fairly minor but the changes helped the lyric flow so much better. Thanks, Leonard. I'm excited. Eliot. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eclepto Funk Posted March 12, 2010 Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 But then I am a firm believer in that old tenet that says....you can't push the river. So I don't. If the songs come, I write 'em. If they don't I just play guitar. that's my approach. i don't so much write songs as let them happen. my biggest challenge is not to push it and try to get it done. generally that ends up in a crappy song. if i wait long enough, the right things fall into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 That would be nice. Unfortunately, every time I dump a load of bricks all I get is a brickpile. To get a house I have to break out the mortar and trowel. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted March 12, 2010 Moderators Share Posted March 12, 2010 How so?I'm imagining that my backwards process hasn't helped. I've always been a word guy and that's where it begins with me. A story I want to tell. Trying to fit that into music after the fact is not easy. The details I guess I'm fascinated with right now are the little details that keep a song from being good. Having all the words flow lyrically is intersting. Here's an example. The final stanza of the song in question is a wrapping up of lessons learned. The sentiment of a particular line is that many tough experiences have passed and the narrator is reconciling that and understanding that his surroundings don't dictate his happiness. The original lines were:Lots of freaksHave come and goneAnd I consumed my share of bathtub ginNow I come to knowThat my state of mindIsn't really connected to where I sitSo I packed my bluesBack in my bagsAnd told myself I think it's time to gitI liked the humor of the freaks and gin, however, after singing it a few thousand times, I became increasingly disappointed with the flow. It just didn't have the melodic feel it needed. After much agonizing I came up with:Far too many daysWere once tomorrowsConvinced myself there ain't no way to winNow I come to knowMy state of mindAin't no way connected to where I sitSo I packed my bluesAway in my bagsAnd told myself I think it's time to gitAnyway, it seems so minor but when you hear it there's a profound difference in the way it flows. It's amazing to me how such minor details can have such an impact. EG Hmmm. I really like the 1st one. Leo's analogy of the river... it sounds like it was flowing in the 1st version and you took the ride. The 2nd one sounds like you diverted the flow. The 2nd one's good but, the 1st... I've polished so hard I took the shine off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Elias Graves Posted March 12, 2010 Author Members Share Posted March 12, 2010 I know what you're getting at and I worry about that as well. On paper I like the first version better as well. When sung, though, the second version is far more lyrical. The reaction from listeners is consistent there also. There's another reason this process is tough. No handbook and no firm answers. EG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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