Members New Trail Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 Scenario 1: Person "A" develops a chord and bass structure for a song, including verses, choruses, bridges, outro and intro parts, and signature licks. This recorded music is given to Person "B" who then writes words and melody based on Person "A's" music. Person "B" may suggest minor changes to the music to better fit the lyrics. Who should get songwriting credit? Scenario 2: Person "A" writes lyrics and music to a song, with chords, key signature guitar licks and bass parts and offers them to the band. The band learns their parts, embellising those parts and often making suggestions about arrangements. Who should get songwriting credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rsadasiv Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 In the absence of a contractual agreement: 1) B2) A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 Credit is divided up according to the agreement made ahead of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 26, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2012 However you decide ahead of time but... In scenario 1, I like a 50/50 cowrite. Keeps things easy and open and ripe for improvement. It ain't done till it's great, right? In scenario 2, I like "A" getting sole credit. It is a slippery slope and though lots of bands work well with the agreement of splits off of arrangement input, I don't like it. It encourages the writer to hold stuff back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 Scenario 1: Person "A" develops a chord and bass structure for a song, including verses, choruses, bridges, outro and intro parts, and signature licks. This recorded music is given to Person "B" who then writes words and melody based on Person "A's" music. Person "B" may suggest minor changes to the music to better fit the lyrics. Who should get songwriting credit?Scenario 2: Person "A" writes lyrics and music to a song, with chords, key signature guitar licks and bass parts and offers them to the band. The band learns their parts, embellising those parts and often making suggestions about arrangements. Who should get songwriting credit? The classic answer to Scenario 1 would be that, if those signature licks are, indeed, signature licks (think the bass riff for "Shotgun" -- the classic example of non-main-melody/non-lyrical copyrightable intellectual property) then Person A would likely be found to be a contributing songwriter in that case, even though the vocal melody and lyrics were from someone else. In Scenario 2, in the classic view, Person A would be the sole author, unless some element contributed by another member of the band ended up being a signature element in the song's identity. It can get more than a bit messy, obviously. That's why bands sometimes split credits in 'creative ways.' For instance, let's say Person A writes the main vocal line and lyrics but the 4 other guys in the band contribute such arguably signature elements. Person A is a good guy but he doesn't just want 1/5th of the credit on a song where he wrote all the lyrics and the melody. So he elects to share music credit with the rest of the band, while keeping all lyric credit. Hence, he gets 60% of the songwriter's royalties. (And, if Person A and/or the band is smart, they self-publish and keep the publisher's half of the mechanicals, as well.) As others note, it's very prudent to get it all agreed on up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marshal Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 In 1) it's both A & B. Music and lyrics. 50/50. In 2) it's A, though that gets sticky. It depends on what the understanding is between partners. But arranging doesn't normally get credit for composition. Ooops. You said in 1) that B writes melody and lyrics. That's pretty dicey. I'd still say it's likely 50/50. But it might be 1/3:2/3. Or 3:1 or something. Depends on how inventive the melody creation is. Or does it just follow what is indicated in the instrumentation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lynn51 Posted January 26, 2012 Members Share Posted January 26, 2012 "The classic answer to Scenario 1 would be that, if those signature licks are, indeed, signature licks (think the bass riff for "Shotgun" -- the classic example of non-main-melody/non-lyrical copyrightable intellectual property) then Person A would likely be found to be a contributing songwriter in that case, even though the vocal melody and lyrics were from someone else.In Scenario 2, in the classic view, Person A would be the sole author, unless some element contributed by another member of the band ended up being a signature element in the song's identity.It can get more than a bit messy, obviously. That's why bands sometimes split credits in 'creative ways.' For instance, let's say Person A writes the main vocal line and lyrics but the 4 other guys in the band contribute such arguably signature elements. Person A is a good guy but he doesn't just want 1/5th of the credit on a song where he wrote all the lyrics and the melody. So he elects to share music credit with the rest of the band, while keeping all lyric credit. Hence, he gets 60% of the songwriter's royalties. (And, if Person A and/or the band is smart, they self-publish and keep the publisher's half of the mechanicals, as well.) As others note, it's very prudent to get it all agreed on up front. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 I wrote it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 27, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 27, 2012 I wrote it That is not what we agreed upon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members LCK Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 For some of the songs I write, I just put down the melody and the lyric: no chords. My copyist/accompanist and harmonic genius, Janice, puts in the chords for me, or in some cases, changes the ones I have. Depending on how her chords help give the tune its harmonic movement and structure, I almost always share credit with her on those songs with ASCAP and with the copyright office in D.C. One song in particular, she only added only two chords. But in my estimation, those two chords "made the song." This is a different scenario than both outlined above. But my answer to those questions is: 1 - A & B. 2 - B, though that's based only on the music, lyric, & harmonic structure, not the guitar and bass parts. They're irrelevant to the question at hand: "who wrote the song?" That stuff has to do with who arranged the song. My understanding is that ASCAP only allows composers and lyricists to divvy up their percentages of a song equally. For two writers it's always 50 percent each, for three writers it's 33.33/33.33/33.33, for 4 it's 25 percent each. LCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 whoever contributes ANYTHING to the ORIG song and FINAL execution gets credit ....or at least thats the RIGHT thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 whoever contributes ANYTHING to the ORIG song and FINAL execution gets credit....or at least thats the RIGHT thing to do. This is true where ORIG song = lyrics and melody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members playlikedanko Posted January 27, 2012 Members Share Posted January 27, 2012 According to the letter of the law, songwriting = melody + lyrics. Not chord structure or arrangement, IIRC. So that's 1) B and 2) A. Unless you fancy yourself a veritable Bob Dylan, though, I wouldn't recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted January 28, 2012 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2012 This is true where ORIG song = lyrics and melody Agreed. But you know... I've had some really stupid arguments over the years. I say, until it takes off, don't be to close to the chest about such things. Because if you are the pivotal contributor, well... you'll have your chance to shine and bask. Until then, enjoy the friendship and joy that a less scrutinized arrangement can bring. Enjoy the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members frankthomson Posted January 28, 2012 Members Share Posted January 28, 2012 just wait till a major artist sings it exactly how u wrote it and gets HIS name on the credits... its a wonderfuk business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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