What is your biggest challenge with songwriting?

[Council78]

Hi everyone!

 

Just thought it would be cool to share our struggles together and see if maybe some good ideas could come from it! I seem to have problems coming up with good ways to put a song together in a way that makes a lot of sense. How about you guys?

[Lee Knight]

All of it, each choice, is a challenge, though it has gotten more fun as I've put it some time, but I chose...

 

Expressing yourself well

 

Not that I feel I have an issue in that department, I actually feel pretty open about my feelings, but it is always something that is the governing force on everything else for my writing. If it doesn't tap into some sort of emotionally resonating quality, why bother with an arrangement. So that is my primary concern. It it making me feel something? If not, I gotta go deeper. Even a silly pop song.

[LCK]

Lyric writing.

 

LCK

[rsadasiv]

Lyric writing. LCK

 

 

You seem to do a pretty good job surmounting challenges.

[rickidoo]

I think writing compelling lyrics that make people stand up and relate to the song is, for me at this point, the largest challenge. Heck, until a short time ago I did not even know that there was such a thing as good or not so good lyrics. As the saying goes, ignorance is bliss. And boy I was blissful for a long long time. At least I am now at the "very uncomfortable and rather overwhelmed" level with lyrics. I may not know how to get there but at least I now know there is a there to get too. And atop of that, I am an Engineer by trade. Which means English and I have not always been the best of buddies. I'm paying for that stupid, stupid mistake now more than ever.

 

So, lyrics.

 

:-)

 

Rick

[Pitar]

Taking an inferred audience out of the projected reach of the poll, I'd have to say none of it is problematic with me. Never has been. After I learned to play well enough to accompany it with vocals - competently - I could bring a life-long penchant for writing and a newly found love of creating melodies together. I began writing poetry as a young kid so that much was at-the-ready before I began playing guitar. Then, after a couple years of playing popular favorites I quit listening to anything except my own developing styles and directions. It was, I will say, an emersion of musical introspection that blocked out all other musical distractions and unwanted influences. I had become a musical recluse. Now, I play at least 2 hours daily and it's always pursuing something new. I am completely happy to simply sit and evolve a melody or song to the extent that it will let itself slip away and drift into a wholly different style and direction. My way of making music does not stand up to conventional music making to the extent that I work to complete something. When that does happen it's for an specific purpose such as a request or an event. Otherwise, I'm like a drunk stumbling down an alley with it not quite falling or walking.

[blue2blue]

I voted for "Getting started/ Not much experience" -- for the first part. Not so much the last. And, of course, from that conjoining, we might suspect I'm reading a meaning into the option that wasn't intended by its author. (But, then, that's how online polls go... there's always some important option that gets left out, some base that's not covered. It's how they all end up being. It's how any poll I ever started ended up. )

 

Getting started -- getting the inspiration for the song -- unless the muses are beating at the door -- is difficult for me. I know all the best practices, so this isn't a plea for checklists. But I'd be kidding myself if I claimed this wasn't a big deal for me.

[LCK]

You seem to do a pretty good job surmounting challenges.

 

Thanks. But it's like Brian Wilson said, "I'm not a genius. I'm just a hard working guy."

 

LCK

[Monkey Uncle]

I could say I have issues with all of those, though my melodies are probably the thing I am least satisfied with.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Writing lyrics. I always screw something up like grammar, past and present tense or make the thing sound like some kid wrote it

[rickidoo]

 

I could say I have issues with all of those, though my melodies are probably the thing I am least satisfied with.

 

 

Monkey - I just wanted to pass on two techniques that helped me on melodies - this may or may not be beneficial to you - but both of these surprised the daylights out of me.

 

First, I sometimes create the melodies before anything - before chords, before lyrics, and even before I know what the song is about. I one finger the keyboard and just see where it goes. Another songwriter suggested this to me and I tried it almost as a joke... and LOVED the song that feel out the first time. About half of my songs are now done like that.

 

But, even if I start with chords, usually on a guitar, and only a vague sense of melody, as soon as I can I transfer the melody to the keyboard. Then I reach in with my midi editor and start having fun with the melody. I figured out why that works for me... 'cause singing the melody while writing it diverts a lot of mental resources to just singing. Whereas, once I get the starter melody in the keyboard, I feel like I am a kid in the sandbox, tweaking, and trying new things.

 

Just thought I'd pass this on 'cause these things have made all the difference in the melodic half of my songwriting.

[kurdy]

My response is similar to Blue's...I think I have decent amount of experience, but I have trouble starting anything. I'm always fighting against my natural tendency to procrastinate. It isn't even a matter of finding inspiration...sometimes I'll have an idea for a song, and months will elapse before I actually sit down to do anything with it. I'd rather be browsing these forums and wasting my time.

 

Also, I'm always afraid of starting too many things I won't be able to finish--so usually it's work on one song till it's finished. (even if it takes a long time), then move on to the next one.

 

These habits ensure that I am not as prolific as I'd like to be.

[kurdy]

 

Monkey - I just wanted to pass on two techniques that helped me on melodies - this may or may not be beneficial to you - but both of these surprised the daylights out of me. First, I sometimes create the melodies before anything - before chords, before lyrics, and even before I know what the song is about. I one finger the keyboard and just see where it goes. Another songwriter suggested this to me and I tried it almost as a joke... and LOVED the song that feel out the first time. About half of my songs are now done like that. But, even if I start with chords, usually on a guitar, and only a vague sense of melody, as soon as I can I transfer the melody to the keyboard. Then I reach in with my midi editor and start having fun with the melody. I figured out why that works for me... 'cause singing the melody while writing it diverts a lot of mental resources to just singing. Whereas, once I get the starter melody in the keyboard, I feel like I am a kid in the sandbox, tweaking, and trying new things. Just thought I'd pass this on 'cause these things have made all the difference in the melodic half of my songwriting.

 

 

^^^This. I think this is a great approach. I feel like the keyboard is an excellent aid to songwriting, because it's like a musical diagram. Even if you don't read music, you can see exactly how the notes are laid out. Just by playing with intervals, it's interesting to see what kinds of melodies spring from it. I like to have chords first, just because it narrows down my options (I'm always a little uncomfortable with unlimited options) to what notes work with the chords. But I can see how the melody-first approach can really uncover a lot of musical possibilities.

[Monkey Uncle]

 

Monkey - I just wanted to pass on two techniques that helped me on melodies - this may or may not be beneficial to you - but both of these surprised the daylights out of me. First, I sometimes create the melodies before anything - before chords, before lyrics, and even before I know what the song is about. I one finger the keyboard and just see where it goes. Another songwriter suggested this to me and I tried it almost as a joke... and LOVED the song that feel out the first time. About half of my songs are now done like that. But, even if I start with chords, usually on a guitar, and only a vague sense of melody, as soon as I can I transfer the melody to the keyboard. Then I reach in with my midi editor and start having fun with the melody. I figured out why that works for me... 'cause singing the melody while writing it diverts a lot of mental resources to just singing. Whereas, once I get the starter melody in the keyboard, I feel like I am a kid in the sandbox, tweaking, and trying new things. Just thought I'd pass this on 'cause these things have made all the difference in the melodic half of my songwriting.

 

 

Thanks for the tips, Rick. I really should try melody-first more often. Generally my songs are lyrically inspired, and then melody and harmony sort of happen together after I have a verse or two, or sometimes after I've written the whole lyric. At that point I find that I have a really hard time not having every melody note land on the 1, 3, or 5 of the chord I'm playing, which makes for a very pedestrian melody.

[dramey]

Finishing songs. I typically get bored with them before I get them written much less recorded. Even the ones I start recording mostly remain unfinished do to a part I cant play or sing perfectly.

[Marshal]

 

All of it, each choice, is a challenge, though it has gotten more fun as I've put it some time, but I chose... Expressing yourself well Not that I feel I have an issue in that department, I actually feel pretty open about my feelings, but it is always something that is the governing force on everything else for my writing. If it doesn't tap into some sort of emotionally resonating quality, why bother with an arrangement. So that is my primary concern. It it making me feel something? If not, I gotta go deeper. Even a silly pop song.

 

 

+1

[Oswlek]

Lyrics.

[bee3]

#1 - Lyrics

#2 - Finishing

 

I have comments I still need to address on songs that I wrote and presented a year ago.

[yump]

stupid words get in the way all the time.

 

i can blah blah la la the melody but get some great lyrics?

 

fuget about it.

[animalwithin]

I can write lyrics with no problem, usually when I'm feeling really down or really excited, but I feel many times that once I put music/sound to the lyrics, they lose a lot of the power. If I was a rapper it would be easy, but as a guitarist, I feel like I can't get my music to meld with my lyrics, yet. Takes practice I guess.

[Marshal]

OK. I want to change my answer.

 

My biggest problem is finding somebody that wants to listen.

[Matximus]

Not my biggest challenge, but I think the biggest challenge in general is generating material that simply sounds good & secondly is believable when delivered. Most people, and artist-types especially, people with artistic vanity, have jaw-droppingly little self awareness of how they are actually perceived. So they make art that reflects how they see themselves - and so many songs are bad because it's so jarringly obvious that this view of themselves conflicts with how they actually are - how they actually come off. It's really difficult 1) realizing what you seem like and 2) Coming to grips with it. Most people don't have a clue about what the world actually sees when it looks at them. But if you do have a clue on that front and are a peace with it, you can even make bad songs and make them work if you are playing to character.

 

But basically, this goes beyond songwriting. Songwriting is an extension of something deeper going on inside you. Good songs are the culmination of a total package of things working right - a lot of it being things in yourself that don't have anything to do with chords & notes.

[peanutroad]

Interesting melodies, definitely. I tend to fall into similar sounding tunes song after song. I think that's partly because I'm writing for my voice -- if I wrote the melodies on a keyboard or something, they would no doubt be more adventurous. But I probably couldn't sing them!

[Capn Spanky]

Writing meaningful lyrics that I'm happy with is #1 for me. But I have issues with all of them, to one degree or another.

[Lee Knight]

It still all comes down to knowing your audience. What you feel has everything to do with writing but an introspection doesn't factor much into the essentials of writing and therefore serves only as a distraction. One Rule: Know your audience. Write to them. Tell them a story they are interested in. The human condition and the emotions it experiences are bound only to the extent of the writer's capacity for letting it all out. Tell them with a colored discussion in rhymes or meters or structures that flow and complement the emotion of it. Don't just speak. Convey to them. Carry them. Facts and lines on paper remain there and should. Keep it spirited. If you can do that you are 90% of the way. Then, we finish the exercise with the what, where, when, why, who and how of content. This is the basic premise for writing taught in any college level creative writing course. If you haven't had the opportunity to take one, you should. Don't expect to be a natural at this stuff. Good story tellers are rare. Writing has always faithfully showed itself to follow the above in every successful example. Making it out to be some form of mystery resolvable by seeking forum advice, in the absence of the principles of writing, will only add clutter to your confusion or frustration. Get a book on creative writing. There are innumerable to choose from. Get the academics of writing working for you. It isn't rocket surgery and the above principles come first. The fundamentals and a good foundation from them are not beyond everyone's reach, but the creativity for good story telling is, for the most part, available to only a few. When that seems to be the case, get really good melodies and, well, that's another kind of writing.

 

What you feel has everything to do with writing but an introspection doesn't factor much into the essentials of writing and therefore serves only as a distraction.

 

I'm unclear on the distinction between "what you feel" and "introspection". Introspection is contemplating one's own thoughts, feelings, and sensations; self-examination. So if "what I feel has everything to do with writing", introspection is the method of examining, distilling, and writing about what I feel. I'm missing your point.

 

Tell them a story they are interested in. The human condition and the emotions it experiences are bound only to the extent of the writer's capacity for letting it all out. Tell them with a colored discussion in rhymes or meters or structures that flow and complement the emotion of it. Don't just speak. Convey to them. Carry them.

 

I love that ^ and agree whole heartedly.

 

Writing has always faithfully showed itself to follow the above in every successful example.

 

I think you're exhibiting ^ a tad too much ^ self confidence ^ in your idea here.

 

Making it out to be some form of mystery resolvable by seeking forum advice, in the absence of the principles of writing , will only add clutter to your confusion or frustration.

 

"In the absence of the principles of writing", yes. I agree. However, you do seem to consistently object to the concept of this forum. But...someone who is constantly feeding themselves with "the principles of writing" can find some very valuable feedback right here. In this forum. I'm perplexed as to why you seem to reject that idea.

 

Get a book on creative writing. There are innumerable to choose from.

 

Absolutely ^ I have several and constantly am on the lookout for more. I eat them up. But more important, READ. WRITE. READ. WRITE.