How do you write songs? What's the best method for what you want d'ya reckon?

[LordBTY]

Just got back from a uni audition. Got into a songwriting course and a singing course.

 

I'm a computer kinda guy - I feel like being a producer and a songwriter is often one in the same for a versatile composer in this day and age.** It was a struggle to get in as I'm not a uniform fit but I was offered a place... but was told I would very much 'stick out' and should seriously consider whether this is what I wanna do.

 

This is because the other songwriter stereotype is coffee shop indie pop acoustic guitar - I can obviously work with it. Normally, I'd compose something in a piano voice in Reason and fiddle with the melody till I'm happy with it. I may start writing other parts in but I wouldn't even touch a musical instrument in this process as I consider it to just be pointless... unless I'm gonna perform it. This is how I've always worked as I'm not really much of a pianist - I aim to improve my skills there but I doubt I'll start using it for composing.

 

So... how do you tend to write songs? Do you think it's the best method? Why do you use said method?

 

 

 

** I hate myself for using the expression 'in this day and age' as a young man but it's pretty appropriate here.

[kurdy]

Wow...guess I'm the first one to respond to this thread.

My opinion on sticking out is that it depends on your goals, I suppose. There are a lot of people trying to make it in music...so anything you can do to stick out from the crowd is a good thing. However, If you merely want to cash in quick, then I guess it's probably better to conform as much as possible. Although, perhaps what they meant is that these songwriting classes tend to be very lyrics-oriented, so someone who just wants to make beats and create cool sounds on a computer might find it boring. But of course, that's just an assumption on their part about what type of person would be interested in such aspects of songwriting. It may not apply to you at all.

 

I personally am very much interested in production and music technology, but when it comes to writing, I pretty much stick with the more traditional approach of just piano and voice. Doesn't make it a better or worse approach than any other; it's just what tends to work for me. The biggest practical advantage is that if I choose to play my songs out, it's easier not to have to rely on a lot of tech to reproduce it...I just play and sing.

[LordBTY]

The course is actually fairly difficult to get into - so I did have prove myself worthy. Pretty difficult when you don't meet the typical singer/songwriter mold.

 

The course is more artist development/performing. It's a singer songwriter course but I'm far from traditional. He said he shouldn't be saying this but the course won't have many people like me on it... he tried to make it clear that the course is for indie poppers in a delicate way.

 

Thing is, not many charting songwriters write music in the traditional way; I sometimes feel modern music academics tend to focus on an outdated industry.

 

But a music tech course is a waste of years in my eyes.

[LeonardScaper]

I wouldn't even touch a musical instrument in this process as I consider it to just be pointless... unless I'm gonna perform it.

 

As an old school kind of guy, this bothers me.

 

But...I think it's good to have an outlier like you in this program because the path of popular music is changing every day.

 

There have been singer/songwriters for millennia.......troubadours all. We played in the courts of kings and in bistros, bars and cafes a'plenty. But the industry has evolved. Stand your musical ground.

 

To answer your OP question, however.....It is quite obviously best to write songs with a vintage acoustic guitar firmly in hand. There is no other universally recognizable way.

[AJ6stringsting]

Man, this is a cool post. I've been playing for over 34 years, a very technical player and the learning / evolving part of being a musician, songwriter, performer and producer never ends. You play/write with many who help expand your mind when it comes to the creative process. All I can say is live, learn and be open to new ideas

[ido1957]

 

I pretty much stick with the more traditional approach of just piano and voice. Doesn't make it a better or worse approach than any other; it's just what tends to work for me. The biggest practical advantage is that if I choose to play my songs out, it's easier not to have to rely on a lot of tech to reproduce it...I just play and sing.

 

 

Agreed - if you can deliver your message with a piano and voice you're doing it right.

[frankthomson]

3 chords and the truth.

its that easy.

[LordBTY]

 

Agreed - if you can deliver your message with a piano and voice you're doing it right.

 

 

I guess I just have a different view of music. Although getting a basic framework is fine, limiting yourself to piano/guitar can inhibit you to compose something that makes sense on piano/guitar.

 

If I composed a shuffling UK Garage beat in 7/4 with a crazy chord sequence, I'd come up with something significantly different than if I were to sit down at a piano. Not that I, nor someone more advanced, couldn't do that on piano if they wanted to (compose a melody for a 7/4 UKG beat) I reckon doing it at least partially electronically would be far more efficient with regards to the flow of ideas.

 

I think that the approach a person takes often ends up shaping the sound.

[ido1957]

I don't do beats - sorry I can't help you writing those kinds of songs

[LordBTY]

Alllllllright. It's cool... I'd say I'm pretty competent in that area

 

I wasn't suggesting you program me some beats but I appreciate the thought.

[espec10001]

Music is music. DAWs are just a different representation of it. Everything that you see displayed on a DAW is derived from traditional music notation, except with a click you can change the time, up the tempo, hear back instantly what you've created, drag a note up or down to change the pitch, etc. Is it more efficient for composing? Yeah, I'd say it is in certain instances. But what if you want to improvise? That's not as easy unless you have an instrument at your command.

 

*edit* Oh, and I am aware there are electronic instruments where you just touch the screen and can improvise this way, but playing a traditional instrument is just way more fun. I feel like I'm playing with a toy when I use those things.

[kurdy]

As an old school kind of guy, this bothers me. But...I think it's good to have an outlier like you in this program because the path of popular music is changing every day.

 

Well...Michael Jackson was known for composing entire tracks in his head, and would communicate all the parts to his musicians by humming them. Not sure if this is what the OP was referring to (though more than a few people have suggested the mind itself is a great compositional tool.)

 

I'm sort of a hybrid between old school and new school...as a keyboardist, most of the tools I use are electronic based, but it's difficult for me to imagine composing without at least touching a musical instrument at some point in the process...that idea just seems foreign to me. Even just inputing the notes and chords seems like it would be difficult to do without at least a MIDI keyboard on hand...but then again, if what you are coming up with is genuinely good, then it really doesn't matter how you get there. It's all means to an end.

[blue2blue]

The course is actually fairly difficult to get into - so I did have prove myself worthy. Pretty difficult when you don't meet the typical singer/songwriter mold. The course is more artist development/performing. It's a singer songwriter course but I'm far from traditional. He said he shouldn't be saying this but the course won't have many people like me on it... he tried to make it clear that the course is for indie poppers in a delicate way. Thing is, not many charting songwriters write music in the traditional way; I sometimes feel modern music academics tend to focus on an outdated industry. But a music tech course is a waste of years in my eyes.

Tutelage is almost always behind the curve. That's how it works. People in some university programs push out to the edges, but at 2 and 4 year colleges, the tendency is to teach established methods and pathways.

 

Unfortunately, teaching classes like "Indie Pop Songwriter 100" as though they are vocational is a bit of a joke. It's not like there are adverts in the classifieds for starter positions as an indie pop songwriter.

 

But, of course, in order to justify funding, schools have to pretend that there's a chance that people getting out of their programs might actually be able to get jobs. It's a con, of course.

 

_______________________

 

 

 

FWIW, unlike some others here, I've actually worked in the postmodern production methodologies that LordBTY is talking about (or some of them), 'constructing' music out of beats, phrases, textures. I have over three decades of work with synthesizers (starting before MIDI with control-voltage sequencers and synths) and was even a synth lab tutor.

 

If I was his songwriting class's instructor, I suspect that I'd very much want him in the class for the reason suggested above, insight and perspective into new methods and modes of creation.

 

When I was in school in the early 80s, I mentioned the remix and dub scene once to often in class. My instructor (who was heavy into Abba-style pop rock) thought I was making it all up, apparently, and challenged me to give a presentation on the subject.

 

I brought in a bunch of mixes, everything from King Tubby and Scratch Perry to instrumental and extended mixes of stuff like Orchestral Maneuvers in the Dark and Human League, Was (Not Was), Material, and the great dubs on Take Away/The Lure of Salvage from XTC's Andy Partridge. I think he really thought I wasn't going to have anything and end up with egg on my face. (I liked the guy but he didn't like me much, according to mutual friends. But I learned a lot from him, nonetheless. Still, I got tired of his defensiveness. The last thing on my mind was to challenge him as 'alpha-male' -- but it seemed like that was how he took much of what I said. He left teaching after a brief period and got into studio design.)

 

 

Anyhow, methods aside, many of the traditional concerns of popular songwriting still hold even for postmodern production approaches and contemporary club pop. The hooks may be different, but you still need hooks. The groove may be different, but you still need it. Lyrics may be minimal, even preterliterate, but it's still often helpful to have a bit of lyric content for the listener to grab onto -- if only so that he can remember your song when he gets to the record store or goes on iTunes the next day.

[LordBTY]

 

Tutelage is almost always behind the curve. That's how it works. People in some university programs push out to the edges, but at 2 and 4 year colleges, the tendency is to teach established methods and pathways. Unfortunately, teaching classes like "Indie Pop Songwriter 100" as though they are vocational is a bit of a joke. It's not like there are adverts in the classifieds for starter positions as an indie pop songwriter. But, of course, in order to justify funding, schools have to pretend that there's a chance that people getting out of their programs might actually be able to get jobs. It's a con, of course.

 

 

This is probably the kind of course I am on. There are heavy links to the music industry and business classes but really, it's probably going to provide me with the equivalent of pushy parents.

 

That said, the course is run by pro musicians, the music business is a big part of the course and it's better than working in a call center for 3 years.

[Lee Knight]

So... how do you tend to write songs? Do you think it's the best method? Why do you use said method?

 

I change up how I do things to the point of it being a detriment. I can't help it. I love electronica. I loved the samples, lo-fi beats and singer/songwriter trends of the early 90's. I love punk, piano pop, big band jazz, power pop, trad country, 70's hard rock, 80's brain pop/rock, bluegrass, folk, bebop... I truly love it all.

 

And my methods are as diverse as my taste. My latest method is the write a lyric while having no instrument at hand (In other words, at work ) and hearing the cadence. Writing to that cadence and having a melody develop while fine tuning the lyric, rewriting rewriting rewriting... all the while the music is getting refined but away from any instrument. Symmetry is being laid out then played with. Balance of lyric theme, pov, language, melodic rhythm, rhyme scheme rhythm, consonants vs. vowels... just playing in my head. I tend to not even pick up an instrument at home and work on the tune...

 

...until the song is solidified in my mind and I'm ready to track. I then work up a groove in Pro Tools, find a key, polish the inversions or picking pattern or harmonic rhythm...

 

...and lay it down. This method had been what I've been doing lately and it's a lot of fun. I love keeping a collapsed but open copy of MS Word at work and working the lyric/tune all in a workday's rhythm. And a lot of times instead of a copy of Word it's a thread here a SC Songwriting.

 

A lot of my stuff has started, been polished, and finalize right here.

 

It always cracks me up when some cranky old bastard comes through here and makes fun of this "lyrics only" approach when I'm hearing the music in my head just fine thank you. Apparently this method of mine is wrong.

[Lee Knight]

. We played in the courts of kings...

 

You did?!?!?! You never mentioned this! Lenny and his Men in Tights.

 

[LordBTY]

On reflection (I should probably mention this) I do sit at a piano when thinking about chord inversions etc. There is a keyboard right in front of my computer screen.

 

Also, I have fiddled around with melodies on the keyboard alot. I hear music in my head and it does occasionally flow better through my fingers than through the mouse cursor.

[blue2blue]

 

This is probably the kind of course I am on. There are heavy links to the music industry and business classes but really, it's probably going to provide me with the equivalent of pushy parents. That said, the course is run by pro musicians, the music business is a big part of the course and it's better than working in a call center for 3 years.

Modes of production and styles change. But much about the music business does not -- or changes very slowly. To be sure, there are enormous changes in distribution going on, but in terms of marketing the music, things haven't changed much since the 50s and 60s.

 

It's still about 'playing the game.' The tactics change -- paying for radio play, positive reviews, hiring paid-click campaigns to generate the semblance of "viral" success by ginning up multi-million view counts on YouTube and Likes on social media. The specific tactics have changed, but the basic processes of manipulating gullible sheeple into thinking they have to have the latest releases hasn't changed since I took some music biz classes in the early/mid 80s from the very frank, blunt-talking and quite experienced industry veteran who headed up the commercial music program at one of the community colleges where I studied recording.

[HoboSage]

This is because the other songwriter stereotype is coffee shop indie pop acoustic guitar - I can obviously work with it. Normally, I'd compose something in a piano voice in Reason and fiddle with the melody till I'm happy with it. I may start writing other parts in but I wouldn't even touch a musical instrument in this process as I consider it to just be pointless... unless I'm gonna perform it. This is how I've always worked as I'm not really much of a pianist - I aim to improve my skills there but I doubt I'll start using it for composing.

 

A "musical instrument" is simply an instrument that makes sounds you consider to be musical. I think it's kind of funny that you don't realize that your computer + Reason is a musical instrument, and that when you interact with that musical instrument with your creative mind to find music in those sounds, you are "playing" a musical instrument.

 

David

[LordBTY]

A "musical instrument" is simply an instrument that makes sounds you consider to be musical. I think it's kind of funny that you don't realize that your computer + Reason is a musical instrument, and that when you interact with that musical instrument with your creative mind to find music in those sounds, you are "playing" a musical instrument. David

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?2895448-The-Musical-Credibility-of-Drummers-and-Rappers...-and-other-things.

 

I do. Others don't. It matters.