Members New Trail Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 ...the parts I want them to play on my original songs but I know I would sound like a crybaby weenie and it wouldn't help, either, except for some slight catharsis for me. So I won't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bee3 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Mods... please pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 18, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 18, 2012 It takes persistence and an unerring sense that you're... right. And if you're not an asshole, that can be tough. For instance, something as simple as, "Remember, when coming back to the I after the chorus it's on the downbeat, not the upbeat." This, to a wonderful friend who sees those "jumps" as he calls them as "exciting". And they are, unless you do it every freaking time you feel the need to rock which seems about every 4 seconds or so, so let's please land on the down there pleasepleaseprettyplaese? ^^^ in my head. Out of my mouth, "So, you want to try it down once and see how it feels?" Sure, let's try it. And of course he pushes it up accidently then asks if we can change the part and I'm thinking, "But I don't want all the tunes to have guitar pushing the 8th. I want to groove. All that's when he wants to cooperate. And of course as you know, it's much worse when they don't want to play nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Mods... please pin.[mod hat on] Maybe someplace between sticky and stuck... Seems like an issue that's going to come up for songwriters in bands -- and I suspect that's a fair chunk here, sooner or later. [mod hat off] In response to the OP, I guess I'd have to ask, Do you pay these guys? If you pay them, you're the boss. Be kind. Be gentle. But be firm. If you don't pay them, sounds like you're going to have to mount a persuasion campaign to convince them that your way has specific advantages that will offer more benefits than their way. Of course, one's estimation of 'benefits' depends largely on one's perspective. In a 'democratic' band, you're herding cats. Only you are one of the cats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhino55 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 How much are you paying them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members espec10001 Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 Well if you aren't paying them, then you're going to have to compromise if these guys are valuable to you. Record the song where it's played your way, and then record one where it is played their way. Then, have one or multiple third parties, people who have nothing vested in the song, make a judgment call. Of course, if you are paying them, then what you say goes and none of the above is necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blue2blue Posted May 18, 2012 Members Share Posted May 18, 2012 I like this, smells like a promotional opportunity that can get your fans involved AND give you valuable feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members straightblues Posted May 19, 2012 Members Share Posted May 19, 2012 This is a really hard one. For me,I am in a band where we were playing all covers. I stared writing a lot of songs (most of which aren't right for the band, so it is time for a second band). The guys were nice enough to try them out. I have a hard time laying my foot down on how they should go. A lot of times, especially in the early days, they were helping me figure the songs out and finish them. Now I try to come in with a particular idea for each instrument, including drums and vocal ideas if I am not singing. This keeps everyone involved. It has helped a lot. Not everyone has the ability to create their parts. At first I didn't really understand that. But now I accept it and offer lots of up front suggestions. It has smoothed things out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members New Trail Posted May 21, 2012 Author Members Share Posted May 21, 2012 This is a really hard one. For me,I am in a band where we were playing all covers. I stared writing a lot of songs (most of which aren't right for the band, so it is time for a second band). The guys were nice enough to try them out. I have a hard time laying my foot down on how they should go. A lot of times, especially in the early days, they were helping me figure the songs out and finish them. Now I try to come in with a particular idea for each instrument, including drums and vocal ideas if I am not singing. This keeps everyone involved. It has helped a lot. Not everyone has the ability to create their parts. At first I didn't really understand that. But now I accept it and offer lots of up front suggestions. It has smoothed things out. Yeah, that's a good idea, and I have done that on a few songs and it worked out really well. I guess I just have to realize that I have to write all the parts for every song rather than let one of the other guys come up with a part that doesn't work and have to try to fix it after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members straightblues Posted May 21, 2012 Members Share Posted May 21, 2012 Another thing that helps a lot is to have a pre meeting with each of the band members instead of introducing to the entire group at the same time. I want buy in from them individually and I want to let them know how I want it to sound for their parts. It has been much more effective for me. It doesn't set up a me against them mentality. Also, not everyone in the band is gonna love your song. Sell a few of them and get them on your side then have them help you get the negative guys on your side. Or if the majority don't like it, you can drop the song without drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Lee Knight Posted May 21, 2012 Moderators Share Posted May 21, 2012 Guys not wanting to try your part have issues. (It's too simple is the worst reason) There are a couple of possible reasons for it. 1. They're not very adept at learning the kind of part you're requesting. In other words, it's making them look bad. 2. They're instinctively protective of their chair. "Hey! I'm the bassoonist. I'll write my own part thanks much." 3. They have a better idea that makes your song better. If it's 3, you're a nut not to listen. If it's 1 a compromise will benefit everyone. He's not capable of nailing your part, that's not going to help your cause, so, with tact, you simplify and play to his strengths. Usually a good idea anyway. But if it's 2... well, I just like to run from these guys. I don't have interest in big egos. It is too time intensive to stroke an asshole's ego. Assholes are just insecure but don't know it yet. Way too much work. As a footnote, I was in a guys band where I never once wrote the bass part to one of his songs. And he wanted me to. But his little cassette demos had the most kickass bass parts, I was more than happy to use his part. To be granted such a cool and key element of the sound, even when it was very, very simple... well... I would've been silly to miss my opportunity to play those parts for a crowd or a recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chicken Monkey Posted May 21, 2012 Members Share Posted May 21, 2012 If you're not paying them, then your parts have to be so convincing that only an idiot would want to play something else (you may need to throw a few idiots out of your band at the beginning). Otherwise, you've got no real authority to fall back on here. You're the writer? That doesn't really give you much credibility over someone who's actually playing the instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted May 22, 2012 Members Share Posted May 22, 2012 If you sell CD's your fans will be expecting the same versions live. To heck with jamming it out - fire them if they don't listen. Hire eager young musicians - it's like a revolving door but at least you get them to play what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Matximus Posted May 23, 2012 Members Share Posted May 23, 2012 Yeah... creative endeavors and kindergarten: Only places where males feel free to get zany whining: Mine Mine Mine!!! We're all there with you. But you're flat lucky if anyone wants to play your songs with you at all. Seems wise to keep your mouth shut and let em do their thing. That's how collaborative efforts be. Less your name is Cameron, Spielberg or Scorsese or some {censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ido1957 Posted May 23, 2012 Members Share Posted May 23, 2012 Just take a cue from Prince - he hires new people for every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TRU Posted May 25, 2012 Members Share Posted May 25, 2012 if they are your band then these things probably should have been rehearsed/arranged before entering the studio. if they are just studio musicians then they do what you tell them. if you just cant say it (understandable, we all have different personalities), then have them lay something down, call it a day, get them out of there, and find a different musician to come in on a different day. basically cut your losses and end it quickly and quietly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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