New Cab Day! White Box 4x12 :love:

[FastRedPonyCar]

whats the difference between front and real loading the speakers? the white boxes appear to be able to load from either way.

 

doug, how do you remove the front grill of the cab? The little pull tabs are there but I don't want to snap them if I have to unscrew something to allow it to be relased.

[Dolf]

whats the difference between front and real loading the speakers? the white boxes appear to be able to load from either way. doug, how do you remove the front grill of the cab? The little pull tabs are there but I don't want to snap them if I have to unscrew something to allow it to be relased.

 

 

this.

[sled]

The cab was more than ok. That cab {censored}ing kills. Jesus on a whole-wheat cracker, it's like I have a new amp. Full review in the AM, I think (well...LATER am) but suffice to say: Room-filling Huge-sounding Musical feedback This cab is also worlds darker than the {censored}cab I have been using. I'm used to running my treble off, my mids dimed and my bass @ noon. Immediately during sound check I had to dial back the bass a bit and I'm going to have to play with the treb/mid to find something a little more to my tastes. It was a bit dark and round compared to what I'm used to, but not in a bad way at all just different. I will be likely just upping the treble response and calling it a day.

Finally, after 80 posts what really matters... how it sounds. Wow, it's darker. Hopefully a lot more to come. Huge sounding doesn't really mean much but musical feedback does.

[FastRedPonyCar]

my number 1 important requirement for a cab is how well it fills the space with sound on stage.

 

I don't care how it projects to the crowd to be totally honest.. that's what the PA is there for. I care about what it sounds like when I'm right in front of it and how it sounds when I'm over on the other side of the drummer on the opposite side of the stage.

 

To me, that's a true testament to the quality of cab engineering and surprisingly, very few cabs on the market have met my satisfaction.

 

I understand that most guys grade cabs differently and a lot of guys will score cabs very differently than I do but that's honestly what makes a cab work for me.

 

The avatar open back cab make sound fairly bland and lacking in musical depth/quality but it makes up for it with projection of sound all around it. Most open back cabs do.

 

It's just that finding a cab that both projects sound everywere around it AND has a nice balanced musical sound, that's where the difficulty lies.

 

The bogner 212 semi open back shiva cab delivers this in biblical proportions but carries a premium price tag.

 

Once the lower 2 panels of the whitebox 212 is removed, that cab also delivers.

 

The port city cab, though lacking when you walk too far to the side, makes up for it when you're in front because the sound doesn't just blow by your ankles, you can hear the crispness of the high end at a relatively close distance.

[Yarbicus]

my number 1 important requirement for a cab is how well it fills the space with sound on stage. I don't care how it projects to the crowd to be totally honest.. that's what the PA is there for. I care about what it sounds like when I'm right in front of it and how it sounds when I'm over on the other side of the drummer on the opposite side of the stage. To me, that's a true testament to the quality of cab engineering and surprisingly, very few cabs on the market have met my satisfaction. I understand that most guys grade cabs differently and a lot of guys will score cabs very differently than I do but that's honestly what makes a cab work for me. The avatar open back cab make sound fairly bland and lacking in musical depth/quality but it makes up for it with projection of sound all around it. Most open back cabs do. It's just that finding a cab that both projects sound everywere around it AND has a nice balanced musical sound, that's where the difficulty lies. The bogner 212 semi open back shiva cab delivers this in biblical proportions but carries a premium price tag. Once the lower 2 panels of the whitebox 212 is removed, that cab also delivers. The port city cab, though lacking when you walk too far to the side, makes up for it when you're in front because the sound doesn't just blow by your ankles, you can hear the crispness of the high end at a relatively close distance.

 

 

This is excellent real-world information. I have always wondered about Avatar and you describe it exactly as I would have expected based upon their specs and price point.

[Dolf]

Doug, when is the www.whiteboxeng.com going live?

[Yarbicus]

Doug, when is the www.whiteboxeng.com going live?

It was supposed to a couple of days of ago but he ran into a few tech snags. He's not around right now because he is frantically trying to get it going.

[Dolf]

It was supposed to a couple of days of ago but he ran into a few tech snags. He's not around right now because he is frantically trying to get it going.

 

 

ah, I figured as much. I should probably just shoot him an email.

[ENdtime]

I convert from metric... 412 28.6 28.6 13.2

 

[Dolf]

I'm sure the construction isnt the same, but how do you know whats better? And 2, the Contemporary Cab from Avatar is 29x29x14 and has a much different look.. Avatar Vintage is 30x29.5x14.. And the Traditional is 29x28.5x12.. So really its more comparable to the Traditional, which is still cheaper and with Celestions..

 

 

I'm going by construction, first of all, not necessarily dimensions.

 

28.6x28.6x13.2 Still makes it more similar to the Contemporary in dimensionality, only slightly smaller, whereas the traditional is technically a different shape.

 

However, the White Box uses all 3/4" ply all around, including the baffle and is built like a tank. Having owned a Traditional Avatar, I know for a fact that it is not built nearly to the rugged specifications that the White Box is. Nor is the tolex and grille as rugged. Nor are the corners and feet the same quality.

 

It's almost apples and oranges compared to the Traditional. I mean, the White Box weighs 35+ pounds more than the Traditional. It's not like they're stuffing it with rocks, man.

 

The Contemporary cab weighs about the same but is slightly larger, making it a better comparison.

 

Avatar cabs aren't bad by any means (and the Contemporary cab is very good) however the White Box is less expensive, sounds amazing and is built every bit as good as the highest end Avatar, if not better.

 

And the celestion vs eminence debate is a completely moot point in my opinion. It's nothing more than blind brand loyalty.

[FastRedPonyCar]

I'm sure the construction isnt the same, but how do you know whats better? And 2, the Contemporary Cab from Avatar is 29x29x14 and has a much different look.. Avatar Vintage is 30x29.5x14.. And the Traditional is 29x28.5x12.. So really its more comparable to the Traditional, which is still cheaper and with Celestions..

 

 

Have you actually played through a traditional 4X12 avatar? The tone is representative of the price tag.

 

I was honestly expecting a $550~ish price tag on the WB 212 and around $800 for the WB 4X12 because that's the level of build quality they're at.

 

I can' say the same for my avatars.

[Dolf]

Have you actually played through a traditional 4X12 avatar? The tone is representative of the price tag. I was honestly expecting a $550~ish price tag on the WB 212 and around $800 for the WB 4X12 because that's the level of build quality they're at. I can' say the same for my avatars.

 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

My traditional 4x12 (when I had it) was as "meh" as any cab has ever been.

[ENdtime]

I'm going by construction, first of all, not necessarily dimensions. 28.6x28.6x13.2 Still makes it more similar to the Contemporary in dimensionality, only slightly smaller, whereas the traditional is technically a different shape. However, the White Box uses all 3/4" ply all around, including the baffle and is built like a tank. Having owned a Traditional Avatar, I know for a fact that it is not built nearly to the rugged specifications that the White Box is. Nor is the tolex and grille as rugged. Nor are the corners and feet the same quality. It's almost apples and oranges compared to the Traditional. I mean, the White Box weighs 35+ pounds more than the Traditional. It's not like they're stuffing it with rocks, man. The Contemporary cab weighs about the same but is slightly larger, making it a better comparison.

 

 

Ok, I'd say actually it's about in line with the Avatar Vintage on weight and look, but speakers play a big role in what a cab weighs in the end. And you said it weighs 105.. Assuming thats correct, Avatar says a traditional weighs in at 75-85.. So my math says its a 20-30lb possible difference.. Where did you come up with 35+? Not important..

 

But again what makes it so much more rugged in construction? Honestly curious how you deciphered that.. Are you a carpenter or cabinet builder? Have you built cabs or have some knowledge of cabinet construction? Or because it looks like it? Im just kind of laughing at all the hype.. The White Box looks solid, but immediately saying its better construction than Avatar is kinda silly.. Lets say the traditional is low level poo.. The Vintage and Contemporary cabs are certainly a step up and are all birch Ply too, and are about the same price with Celestion's..

[ENdtime]

I was honestly expecting a $550~ish price tag on the WB 212 and around $800 for the WB 4X12 because that's the level of build quality they're at.

 

 

Ok cool

 

Tell my why the build quality is so much better.. Thats all Im asking. 3/4 birch plywood on cabs is pretty much a norm, so thats not really indicative. What seperates it?

[Dolf]

But again what makes it so much more rugged in construction? Honestly curious how you deciphered that.. Are you a carpenter or cabinet builder? Have you built cabs or have some knowledge of cabinet construction? Or because it looks like it? Im just kind of laughing at all the hype.. The White Box looks solid, but immediately saying its better construction than Avatar is kinda silly.. Lets say the traditional is low level poo.. The Vintage and Contemporary cabs are certainly a step up and are all birch Ply too, and are about the same price with Celestion's..

 

 

Personal experience.

 

Don't take my word for it, go check it out yourself.

[Zozobra]

The important question is will they be doing a 6x12?

[Yarbicus]

The important question is will they be doing a 6x12?

And the answer is "if the other cabs do well, then yes they will."

[FastRedPonyCar]

Ok cool Tell my why the build quality is so much better.. Thats all Im asking. 3/4 birch plywood on cabs is pretty much a norm, so thats not really indicative. What seperates it?

 

 

I can't comment on their vintage or contemporary 4X12's but I have their vintage 1X12 cab and I don't know if their construction methods differ between the 1X12 and the 4X12 cabs in the vintage lineup but looking at the internal design of the 1x12 vintage avatar, it has no internal bracing at all, the tolex is cheap and the glue they used is not adhering the tolex to the cab in several spots (despite it never leaving my house). It's virtually identical to the traditional 2X12 cab's construction.

 

None of us but doug know how the main slabs of wood on the WB cabs are joined so speculating is useless. I've read that this can play a huge role in the sound and I know it has to play a big role in how solid and durable the cabs are. I don't want to tear the tolex off my avatar just to find out.

 

the vintage 1X12 cab also doesn't use as thick of wood. They use 15mm birch for those so the 4X12 could be constructed differently.

 

I'm not slandering avatar's vintage or contemporarly lineup at all. I think they're great bang for the buck but the joints, bracing, tolex work, etc of the WB 2x12 are all virtually identical to that of my splawn 4x12 and our singer's mesa 2x12 and stiletto 4x12 an no one seems to argue about those cabs' superiority over the avatar 4x12's.

 

I'm sure everyone is wondering what gives with the low pricing because it's the first time something that's built this well has had that sort of price tag attached to it without someone already having previously owned it and to be honest, I haven't the first clue. Maybe it's introductory pricing or maybe solid cabs really are just that inexpensive to make properly. All I know is that this cab sounds so much better than the open back avatar traditional 2x12 it's not even funny.

[dropthisd]

I can't comment on their vintage or contemporary 4X12's but I have their vintage 1X12 cab and I don't know if their construction methods differ between the 1X12 and the 4X12 cabs in the vintage lineup but looking at the internal design of the 1x12 vintage avatar, it has no internal bracing at all, the tolex is cheap and the glue they used is not adhering the tolex to the cab in several spots (despite it never leaving my house). It's virtually identical to the traditional 2X12 cab's construction. None of us but doug know how the main slabs of wood on the WB cabs are joined so speculating is useless. I've read that this can play a huge role in the sound and I know it has to play a big role in how solid and durable the cabs are. I don't want to tear the tolex off my avatar just to find out. the vintage 1X12 cab also doesn't use as thick of wood. They use 15mm birch for those so the 4X12 could be constructed differently. I'm not slandering avatar's vintage or contemporarly lineup at all. I think they're great bang for the buck but the joints, bracing, tolex work, etc of the WB 2x12 are all virtually identical to that of my splawn 4x12 and our singer's mesa 2x12 and stiletto 4x12 an no one seems to argue about those cabs' superiority over the avatar 4x12's. I'm sure everyone is wondering what gives with the low pricing because it's the first time something that's built this well has had that sort of price tag attached to it without someone already having previously owned it and to be honest, I haven't the first clue. Maybe it's introductory pricing or maybe solid cabs really are just that inexpensive to make properly. All I know is that this cab sounds so much better than the open back avatar traditional 2x12 it's not even funny.

The pics from your NCD shows WB uses staples, which btw is not identical construction like splawn, mesa.

[Dolf]

The pics from your NCD shows WB uses staples, which btw is not identical construction like splawn, mesa.

Staples and glue, fellas. Staples and glue.

And only on the internal ("extra") bracing. No difference between a long staple and a finishing nail.

Also, those pictures that you're showing don't show ALL the internal bracing well enough to tell if there are nails or staples in the corner braces. Although I would imagine it would be nails, either way.

[FastRedPonyCar]

The pics from your NCD shows WB uses staples, which btw is not identical construction like splawn, mesa.

O'rly?

My Splawn:







The Bogner uberkab and Diezel use staples on their brace joints too.

Bogner




Diezel






I think with maybe the mills afterburner baffle and the redstar cab's internal "ribs", no one in the industry is doing anything ground breaking with their internal design.

I tried using a piece of the metal L bracket bracing that mills uses in their cabs with the WB 212 and it made it super stiff sounding. too tight of a sound for my liking.

[Dolf]

^sweet burn.

[FastRedPonyCar]

I'm not really trying to stir any pots here, I'm just confused at what the big deal is?

 

Clearly not every structurally strengthening method doesn't = better tone. If that were true then I would have heard an improvement in sound after doing this

 

 

 

 

There was a change in the sound but not a good one (not to my ears at least)

[Dolf]

That's weird, the Mills cab I got to play was huge-sounding.

 

I guess there's a lot to think about in regards to how the construction affects the tone.

 

At the end of the day, if it's put together solidly and it sounds great, then that's all that matters.

[Dolf]

Quick bump as people are getting their new Whiteboxes now.

{censored}ing love this cab. I need someone to buy some of my {censored} so I can get a 2x12 to go with it.

Also, I'm using my Whitebox in this vid...although it's a {censored}ty vid.

42kqQygX7j8

Sheraton (dream180/mean90) - Rocker 30 - Whitebox 4x12

EDIT: Also, still haven't fixed my wife's window