Effects Loop Preferences?

[Seattle Doug]

Hi b@$t@rd$;

I read a lot of action around here about some people like the loop in one amp, don't like the loop in another amp. Also stuff about works with pedals or not...

So, I'm hoping to get some consensus of opinion in this thread. What are the most important specs you want in a loop?

What ohms for the send? 600?

What ohms for the return? 220?

What db level do you want? 0db as a compromise between pedal and rack levels?

Where do you want the loop inserted? e.g.; after the preamp and tone, before the master?

 

Any other comments?

 

Thanks!

[jaeger28]

Rivera is great as they offer send levels and return levels.

 

My ideal loop would be:

-Send and Return Levels, so you can drive your rack fx with enough juice, not overload your pedals and adjust the volume with loop to the vol without it

-Remote switchable on/off

-Switchable ser/par

[Giga]

Copy the VHT/Fryette or Diezel loop. Perfect !

 

Giga

[Zozobra]

My suspicions are that most people would settle for a 0db series loop. Its not difficult to add series/parallel operation and send and return levels to an amp if we're talking a tube buffered loop with a triode for the send and return though.

[Slaymoar]

 

Hi b@$t@rd$; I read a lot of action around here about some people like the loop in one amp, don't like the loop in another amp. Also stuff about works with pedals or not... So, I'm hoping to get some consensus of opinion in this thread. What are the most important specs you want in a loop? What ohms for the send? 600? What ohms for the return? 220? What db level do you want? 0db as a compromise between pedal and rack levels? Where do you want the loop inserted? e.g.; after the preamp and tone, before the master? Any other comments? Thanks!

 

 

If there are multiple channels, after the channel volumes.

 

Like this:

 

Channel 1 > Preamp > Tonestack > Volume > Effect Loop > Master

 

Channel 2 > Preamp > Tonestack > Volume ^

 

Oh and series trumps parallel most of the time.

[NaturalBornBoy]

Just a series loop with the option to run on +4 or -10 would be good enough for me.

[draelyc]

Hi b@$t@rd$; I read a lot of action around here about some people like the loop in one amp, don't like the loop in another amp. Also stuff about works with pedals or not... So, I'm hoping to get some consensus of opinion in this thread. What are the most important specs you want in a loop? What ohms for the send? 600? What ohms for the return? 220? What db level do you want? 0db as a compromise between pedal and rack levels? Where do you want the loop inserted? e.g.; after the preamp and tone, before the master? Any other comments? Thanks!

 

I can't speak to the technical aspects of your question, for lack of expertise. But I can tell you that loops with excessively hot send levels have been the bane of my existence!

 

My Dr. Z Maz 18 would've been my Holy Trail, [edit: GRAIL ... freakin' Droid auto-text AAARRRRGGHHH!!! ] end-all-be-all, GAS-ending amp, had I been able to get its effects loop to play nice with my delay and harmonizer pedals. As it is, I'm selling the amp.

 

Had the same issue with the loop in my Trace Elliot Bonneville. Even with send and return level controls, the loop signal was so hot I had to set the send control so low it was barely on. That essentially killed the natural tone of the amp.

 

With a smaller amp (either a combo or a lower powered head), I do NOT want to *have* to run a rack setup just to use the amp's loop. To me, that's totally counter-intuitive.

 

The two things I need in an amp are a good master volume and a good series loop that will not over-power my pedals.

 

FWIW, an I know others will have different needs.

[Cougar Hunter]

 

Just a series loop with the option to run on +4 or -10 would be good enough for me.

 

 

this.

 

I'm not sure why Mesa can't get it right.

[fly135]

 

Just a series loop with the option to run on +4 or -10 would be good enough for me.

I.E. Blackstar HT-5

 

The return impedance is the most important. Send is probably not an issue. If you are running at instrument level a return impedance in the 100k+ range is desireable. In your post I'd assume you meant 220K, because 220 ohm return is too low for any loop.

 

If you want to use pedals then 0db is too high for a lot of pedals. I have a Jamman looper that has trouble with loops that aren't instrument level. The -10db setting on the Blackstar is perfect for it.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

 

Just a series loop with the option to run on +4 or -10 would be good enough for me.

 

 

 

This!

[Oblivion DC]

Maybe a loop that doesn't completely change the tone of the amp...

[Ron Burgandy]

something that plays nice with my Carbon Copy. My Tweaker has a loop, but it's useless to me because it's too damn hot for pedals.

[jaeger28]

I think about investing 100 bucks in the G-Lab loop adapter. Helps you to match levels and comes handy, as it reduced the number of cables from the amp's loop to your board to 1. I would use this both with my Steavens Poundcake and Cornford Mk50, which both have too hot send signals.

 

 

 

By the way I have a Ebtech LineLevel Shifter which works, but it's passive so it sucks tone, doesn't get the level back up in the return.

 

So a loop should ideally be built in a way so you don't need this kind of additional gear.

[moonstone]

 

Just a series loop with the option to run on +4 or -10 would be good enough for me.

 

 

This + I would add -Remote switchable on/off

[fly135]

something that plays nice with my Carbon Copy. My Tweaker has a loop, but it's useless to me because it's too damn hot for pedals.

Strangely enough, the Rebel 20 is not hot and is just right for pedals.

[breakingstring]

 

something that plays nice with my Carbon Copy. My Tweaker has a loop, but it's useless to me because it's too damn hot for pedals.

 

 

That's weird, I think the Carbon Copy is a line-level pedal. At least that's what I think I read in the manual...

[twangr]

Honestly, I don't pay much attention to the signal levels in/out of the loop. I know my processor will output at -10dbu - +4dbu. Typically I'll choose the +4dbu and then dial back at the processor. This is mostly because any FX loops I've dealt with on amps do NOT have send/return control pots except for one. That one was the Marshall 9001 preamp (tube model). That is one outstanding FX loop! Then, to top it off, Marshall included a Mix control on the front panel!I do not know if it is series or parallel but the controls on the send/return + Mix made for some great usage of FX.

 

Like a lot of folks I use the FX loop for time-based FX (verb/Delay/chorus) and IF I use anything else (typically just a wah and on a rare occasion maybe a distortion box) it goes in the front.

 

It was with the Marshall FX loop that I learned to really appreciate digital FX, especially reverb.

 

Since I do not what your plans are, I will say that I have the JCA20H and have been inside it so I'll point out the obvious that there is plenty of room inside and on the panels to install send/return controls on the rear panel and a mix control on the front panel. Yes, I've been contemplating the mod.

 

My idea of an "Ultimate JCA20H" would be to either add a clean channel or somehow design in more headroom for a clean tone and then add an FX loop with the send/return + Mix controls. Then make the channels and the FX loop footswitchable.

 

I know that I can pretty much get all that with the JCA50H and I probably will get one this next year. However, for my band situation right now 20 watts is quite seriously a bit more than enough for crunch/distortion tones. I simply need more cleans.

 

Not to be mean but my Bugera V22 does cleaner and louder cleans than my JCA20H :poke:

They both use a pair of EL84 tubes and a pair of 12ax7s in the preamp. However the crunch/distortion on the JCA kills the V22. I'm sure design compromises are involved which I do not pretend to understand and the Bug distortion certainly sounds like silicon diode distortion as opposed to tube distortion which is the reason I like the JCA distortion MUCH better.

 

Anyway, you asked for an opinion so there it is. Do with it what you can.

[draelyc]

I think about investing 100 bucks in the G-Lab loop adapter. Helps you to match levels and comes handy, as it reduced the number of cables from the amp's loop to your board to 1. I would use this both with my Steavens Poundcake and Cornford Mk50, which both have too hot send signals. By the way I have a Ebtech LineLevel Shifter which works, but it's passive so it sucks tone, doesn't get the level back up in the return. So a loop should ideally be built in a way so you don't need this kind of additional gear.

 

 

 

Dammit, am I gonna have to try somethin' else before I sell that Maz? I did try the EbTech dealie, and you're right, it does fix the level issues, but the tone suck was a deal breaker...

[fly135]

That's weird, I think the Carbon Copy is a line-level pedal. At least that's what I think I read in the manual...

If that was the case then it would not work well with a guitar plugged into it.

[Hulston Prickle]

 

this. I'm not sure why Mesa can't get it right.

 

 

Considering they preach the superiority of parallel loops in their literature, it would be a hard sell.

[Sheik_Yerbouti]

 

Considering they preach the superiority of parallel loops in their literature, it would be a hard sell.

 

 

 

They can preach all they want to, but the loop is the only thing I don't LOVE about my Road King.

[Cougar Hunter]

They can preach all they want to, but the loop is the only thing I don't LOVE about my Road King.

 

It's the only thing I hate about my Blue Angel.

[Hulston Prickle]

I'm not defending Mesa, I just think it's up there with adjustable bias on the list of stuff they aren't going to change, despite fan requests.

[Seattle Doug]

THANK YOU, guys - as usual, HCAF provides a LOT of useful information. I truly appreciate it.

[primeholy]

 

something that plays nice with my Carbon Copy. My Tweaker has a loop, but it's useless to me because it's too damn hot for pedals.

 

 

Yep. I had to get rid of my carbon copy cause it wouldnt play nicely with my Mark V. I traded it for a boss dd-20, which works great in my loop, but has too many options for what I want.