Members Mikoo69 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 I am going to run a deluxe reverb into a 4x12 cabinet, bypassing the internal speaker. It's a Hiwatt 4x12. I was thinking of getting 4 celestion blues to put inside, as I currently use a Celestion Gold in the combo and love the sound. However, I have 2 Scholz Sugarcone speakers hanging around not being used right now, and wondering how they would blend with 2 Celestion Blues. I am thinking Scholz on the bottom, Celestions on Top. Thoughts on this? The Celestions are 15watt speakers whereas the Scholz are 100 watt speakers. Does this mean the Celestions will give more natural breakup and the Scholz will stay cleaner? Will they blend well together? Will the DR be able to drive all 4 speakers well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members metareal Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 Ho are you planning to wire the speakers? Series or Parallel? Either way I am afraid that your 100Watt speakers will drawn the less efficient 15w speakers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TU BE Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 Take the lowest rated speaker wattage and multiply by total number of speakers to figure out the wattage handling. You will have a 60 watt cab. Biggest thing you need to be concerned about is your ohms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 that would be 4x 8ohm speakers, and the DR needs an 8 ohm load so it would be wired series/parallel. the ohms will be correct. i am just wondering if the combination of the 2 speaker choices will be a good mix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TU BE Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 I would say just try it and find out. Two speakers that break up easily and two staying clean could be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 have to get a 2nd blue first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 If you're micing the cabinet, no worries. If not, the 100 watters could be a little louder. The Blues are quite sensitive (100dB), so they won't need a lot of power before they start barking. Is this you, BTW? http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-641052.html mikoo6912-13-2009, 04:29 PM just tried the scholz in the DR and didn't like it as much as the celestion gold. also the gold/scholz mix wasnt doing much to my ears...it seemed the that gold was overpowering. If you've tried it before, you should know better than any of us Edit: Sorry, you were talking about the Gold here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 similar, but different lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted March 14, 2011 Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 similar, but different lol. Hehehehe. But the Blue is an efficient speaker. Same sensitivity as the Vintage 30. It could very well sound pretty cool, if the mix of the two sounds good by themselves. And if you have one blue, and one Sugarcone at home, you could try that today It seems (If this link is correct) that the DR is really running 12-13 ohms http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-139966.html "ohn Phillips03-20-2006, 04:51 PM So, I suppose a Deluxe Reverb might sound better if one were to replace the 8-ohm combo speaker with a 16 ohm one. Yes. The best-sounding DR I've ever heard was a '69 SF fitted with a 16-ohm 65W McKenzie. At the time I couldn't understand why it was so much better-sounding and LOUDER than any other DR I've ever heard, since I assumed the "mismatch" would reduce the power. Later I found out about the mismatched stock ratio and it all made sense. Also why fitting a DR with 6L6s and still using the stock 8-ohm speaker works so well... That characteristic flubby/pushed-too-hard-mush sound of a DR is actually very characteristic of a low mismatch, if you know what to listen for... not actually of 6V6s, even though the DR is usually thought of as the 'classic' 6V6 amp" Put two in your cab, and wire them to 16 ohms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted March 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 14, 2011 didnt realize it was safe to run the DR into a 16ohm cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ke2 Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Me neither, and it's probably wise to check with more sources to be absolutely safe. But it seems it's an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cirrus Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Either way I am afraid that your 100Watt speakers will drawn the less efficient 15w speakers... It's not quite that simple - as someone else said in this thread, the blues are efficient speakers. Sure, more than 15 watts and they'll be breaking up, but the wattage rating doesn't tell you anything about the total volume output of the speaker. That's purely a function of their sensitivity, mechanical limits, and frequency response. Since you won't be able to put more than around 15 watts into the 2 Scholz Sugarcone speakers anyway without risking damage to the blues, you will likely find the blues to be louder - a quick search shows that the Scholz speakers are 99db compared to the blue's 100db. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikoo69 Posted March 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 tried to buy 2 more Scholz Sugarcones yesterday so i could have 4 in a 4x12, though apparently they are no longer in production! ahhh!!!! Bummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Belva Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 It's not quite that simple - as someone else said in this thread, the blues are efficient speakers. Sure, more than 15 watts and they'll be breaking up, but the wattage rating doesn't tell you anything about the total volume output of the speaker. That's purely a function of their sensitivity, mechanical limits, and frequency response.Since you won't be able to put more than around 15 watts into the 2 Scholz Sugarcone speakers anyway without risking damage to the blues, you will likely find the blues to be louder - a quick search shows that the Scholz speakers are 99db compared to the blue's 100db. 99 to 100 is close. The 100's may overpower the 99's. Wattage isn't really as much an issue as the aforementioned SPL. Wattage is only what the speaker will handle before it grenades itself. And you need to know what max is as well as program (rms).Also, most Fender tube amps have OT's that are more forgiving of impedance mismatch than other brands. I know 2 guys running Silverface Bassmans (WANT!!!!!) with 8 ohm loads and the amp head just says 4 ohm minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarbilly74 Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Speaker efficiency is measured with a single frequency tone running through the speaker but once you put a guitar tone that has quite a range of frequencies through the speaker the whole thing changes drastically. First off, the wattage will determine the headroom of the speaker. Simply put, a low watt speaker will "fart" on the lows and loose definition on the highs at a much lower volume than a higher watt speaker, despite of the efficiency. So even though a speaker may be more efficient at the test frequency, it will realistically be able to handle lower volumes while keeping tonal definition and integrity. Also, the voicing of the speaker matters a lot. Speakers with an emphasis in the midrange will appear louder to guitar tones because that is where most of the guitar frequencies are. To answer the OP question, there is no risk in trying what you are proposing. Yes there will be more speaker break up on the 15w speakers and it's up to you to determine whether you like the results or not but you won't damage anything so just give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members thenakedarab Posted March 15, 2011 Members Share Posted March 15, 2011 Blues are VERY efficient speakers and quite loud. Wattage =/= sensitivity or efficiency if you prefer. The higher the wattage, the greater the headroom in general before the speaker starts distorting significantly, and also wattage does assist in delivering clean bass and treble which can increase fullness and perceived volume. The higher the sensitivity/efficiency the louder the speaker will be all other things remaining equal. A high efficiency and high wattage speaker will be loud and have the headroom to not breakup excessively and give more potential bass and treble on tap. The blue is a very mid range dominent speaker, it's super loud, and cuts through like butter because of both it's efficiency and mid oriented voice, but does not have a lot of bass on tap. It does however sparkle with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.