are any cheap mass produced 4x12 cabs super loud?

[Ron Burgandy]

Originally Posted by earthoverdrive

So if I had the full stack I should be set I would think. What speakers tend to be in these? Little man? lol

Sorry, just watched Jay and Silent Bob strike back.


"$20 little man, put that {censored} in my hand..."




Anyway yeah the 1960b as pointed out above, will do just fine. I would be willing to bet a single Marshall cab will make you forget the full stack setup.




At least for practice

[earthoverdrive]

Originally Posted by BEMUSofNthAmrca

I hate to say it, but if your room is too small, you have to turn down. Otherwise, it will always sound like {censored}. Loud bands need room to breath. It sucks, but I've been in loud bands that play in small spaces. When we didn't know any better, we would crank our amps and always wonder why we sound like {censored}. Then we would play a show in a big hall and suddenly at the same amp settings, we sounded amazing. It's the room. You have to adjust to the size of the room you are playing in.

Playing super loud in a small room can be death for your ears.

It sounds like you want to keep going louder and louder to make up for it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe your room is big enough, but based on the gear you already have, I can't see you needing to be louder.

How big is your bassists amp? I'd like to know what you are "competing" with. I don't like the word compete because you should never have to compete with your bandmates to be heard.

It's tricky because drums(especially the cymbals and the snare) are at a certain level of volume that can't be turned down unless drummers ease off which they don't tend to like to do. Simply because of the drum volume earplugs are essential. Once you get the earplugs in, even the musician types like Hearoes(sp?), you tend to need to crank even louder. I don't feel like we play any louder than drum volume. The bass player is running 400 or 500 solid state watts into two 15s and usually uses a very gainy distortion pedal that does kind of blend in with my high gain guitar tone.

The bottom line is that when my band mates ask me to turn up because they can't hear me very well I need to turn up or we need a bigger space we can't afford(my basement is free which is awesome) or we need to go acoustic!

Part of the issue is that even though we have our amps in the corners of the room we are standing fairly close to them which makes it all the harder to hear each other.

Drums are loud, we wear earplugs, I don't know what the answer is aside from me being able to turn up a bit more.

[earthoverdrive]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Sorry, just watched Jay and Silent Bob strike back.


"$20 little man, put that {censored} in my hand..."




Anyway yeah the 1960b as pointed out above, will do just fine. I would be willing to bet a single Marshall cab will make you forget the full stack setup.




At least for practice

I think I saw that when it came out, no worries.

Will keep a 1960b in mind, might pair up well with my 2x12 on top.

[earthoverdrive]

The whole thing is kind of a loud mess for sure. Heavy metal or no metal at all!

[peavey_impact]

The Drive Elite 4x12 would be, but good luck finding them. They were not made for long and are now discontinued. They were very cheap new, and if you found one used it would likely be crazy cheap.

480 watt power handling from four Eminence Legend V128's

[theAntihero]

Originally Posted by peavey_impact

The Drive Elite 4x12 would be, but good luck finding them. They were not made for long and are now discontinued. They were very cheap new, and if you found one used it would likely be crazy cheap.

480 watt power handling from four Eminence Legend V128's

I love mine and have been looking for another for about 3 years now. I cant find one.

God i wish i bought 5 when they were 129 bucks.

[theAntihero]

Originally Posted by earthoverdrive

You might be right. If I replaced that no name cab with something louder I might be fine having the 2x12 on top I'm thinking.

My point is you might give just the 2x12 a shot taht way the Swamps are getting all 200w instead of only 100w and see if it makes it that much louder.

You could always just load the 4x12 with swamp thangs as well, cab construction makes a big difference tonewise but it'll work if you are on a budget.

[JerEvil]

Multi-Quote is your friend!!!


Oh and listen to RB and get the 1960.

[soundgardener75]

Uh, I personally would use a 50 tube head, 100 watt for better headroom, with those cabs that you currently have.

[esp_207]

When you say 'ear plugs' are you talking foam wads? If you aren't using something like 'Hearos' then you're really doing yourself a disservice imo. 20db attenuation and while certainly not perfect they don't muffle nearly as much as traditional plugs. Best $10 you can spend on 'gear'.

I play under almost identical conditions and a JSX w/a 2-12 g-flex cab and a 2-12 open back cab w/v30's is more than enough volume.

[earthoverdrive]

Originally Posted by peavey_impact

The Drive Elite 4x12 would be, but good luck finding them. They were not made for long and are now discontinued. They were very cheap new, and if you found one used it would likely be crazy cheap.

480 watt power handling from four Eminence Legend V128's

I'll do an internet search at least. How can a cab be so cheap with four Eminence speakers? Makes no sense but I'd love to find one assuming that those speakers are efficient and don't break up too easy.

Originally Posted by theAntihero

My point is you might give just the 2x12 a shot taht way the Swamps are getting all 200w instead of only 100w and see if it makes it that much louder.

You could always just load the 4x12 with swamp thangs as well, cab construction makes a big difference tonewise but it'll work if you are on a budget.

I'll try that again, it's been awhile since I only used the 2x12 at practice. I used to use it by itself all the time. It's an 8 ohm cab so the amp would put out 150 watts into it.

Originally Posted by JerEvil

Multi-Quote is your friend!!!

Good idea. I'm probably doing it the hard way but..

Originally Posted by soundgardener75

Uh, I personally would use a 50 tube head, 100 watt for better headroom, with those cabs that you currently have.

I tried my 50 watt Laney GH tube head today before practice. It breaks up at way too low of volume levels and sounds like total {censored} with my distortion pedal. If I just use it's preamp for distortion it only sounds good at medium volume levels. I'm going to list it for sale this week as I currently have no use for it. It's good for old school lower gain Marshall tones and maybe stoner tones but that's about it in my opinion. I need the money.

I'm sure some other tube heads, especially 100 watt units(and most definitely 150-400 watt units), have more headroom but I'm a bit soured on them at the moment.

Originally Posted by esp_207

When you say 'ear plugs' are you talking foam wads? If you aren't using something like 'Hearos' then you're really doing yourself a disservice imo. 20db attenuation and while certainly not perfect they don't muffle nearly as much as traditional plugs. Best $10 you can spend on 'gear'.

I play under almost identical conditions and a JSX w/a 2-12 g-flex cab and a 2-12 open back cab w/v30's is more than enough volume.

I usually have an in ear monitor bud in my left ear so I can hear my vocals and a Hearo in my right. I wish the Hearo blocked out a bit more sound but it's a lot better than nothing and a lot better than foam. I've been wearing them at shows for about 10 years and at band practice for the last 3.

Something is wrong with my Ampeg. It used to be louder. So far two techs have said they can't find anything wrong with it and that it tests at 150 watts. I'm done spending money on it. Works fine as a preamp into a power amp only the power amp I was going to buy from my friend is old and I don't trust it after it gradually started clipping and smelling like it was about to melt about 90 minutes into practice last week. Fortunately solid state power amps are pretty cheap even new and class D doesn't generate much heat.

[soundgardener75]

Originally Posted by earthoverdrive

I tried my 50 watt Laney GH tube head today before practice. It breaks up at way too low of volume levels and sounds like total {censored} with my distortion pedal. If I just use it's preamp for distortion it only sounds good at medium volume levels. I'm going to list it for sale this week as I currently have no use for it. It's good for old school lower gain Marshall tones and maybe stoner tones but that's about it in my opinion. I need the money.

I'm sure some other tube heads, especially 100 watt units(and most definitely 150-400 watt units), have more headroom but I'm a bit soured on them at the moment.

Your speakers might be shot then. I had a Peavey VTM 60 with an Ampeg V412 cab with four G12T-75s, totalling to 300 watts, and does not break up on lower volume until I turn the Pre Gain past 5.

I may have missed it, but can we see your amp settings?

[earthoverdrive]

Originally Posted by soundgardener75

Your speakers might be shot then. I had a Peavey VTM 60 with an Ampeg V412 cab with four G12T-75s, totalling to 300 watts, and does not break up on lower volume until I turn the Pre Gain past 5.

I may have missed it, but can we see your amp settings?

The speakers in my no name 4x12 might be kinda shot but I don't think the 150 watt Swamp Thangs in my 2x12 are. The tubes in my Laney on the other hand might be at the end of their life. Either way the Laney tone is not my thing anymore and even years back it still didn't offer much in the way of headroom although I didn't push it as much back then so it's hard to compare/remember.

Ampeg SS 150 clean/B channel- bass around 11 or 12 o'clock, mid 11 or 12, treble 11 or 12.
The EQ is nuts. This amp would be fine for mid volume bass playing.

TightMetal settings- volume 10 o'clock, tone 8, gain max, tight 9, trash switch on for a bit of a mid-scoop(really it should be called the heavy metal switch), gate chomp switch on to almost eliminate all noise while not playing in combination with my ISB Decimator pedal.

Best high gain metal tone I've ever played my guitar through, pedal or preamp although I'll admit I haven't exactly played tons of amps. No need now, I'm just looking for more headroom.

[earthoverdrive]

Found a good deal on a Crate BV300 head, might go check it out tomorrow. 80 lbs but 300 all tube watts for a great price..

[esizer]

 

Originally Posted by earthoverdrive

Found a good deal on a Crate BV300 head, might go check it out tomorrow. 80 lbs but 300 all tube watts for a great price..

 

No...just no. 300 watts of all blue doodoo tone.

[earthoverdrive]

 

No...just no. 300 watts of all blue doodoo tone.

 

 

I'd use my pedal through the clean channel or a preamp into the rear if necessary.

[Wookieslayer]

I have the same amptweaker pedal and IMO you should try it with the thrash setting disengaged for more mids in your jam setting. Since your room is small you're going to get a lot of frequencies clashing with each other and the lack of mids isn't helping. By itself, the tone of the thrash/scoop switch sounds bad ass, but if you let your ears adjust to the tone in the mix it should help you be heard! If you're using the pedal through the clean channel on the Ampeg try this or add more mids on the amp.

 

Also there is no way the GH50 should have trouble competing in a reasonable band mix. Maybe your tubes are shot. There's only 2 El34s in that amp so I think it would be worth replacing before you spend the money on a 300w Blue Doodoo, lol; plus retubing the BV is going to be pricey!

 

Have you tried running the Amptweaker straight to the FX return/power amp in on the back of the GH50? Try it without the thrash switch, and turn up that tone knob! holy {censored} 8 o'clock is wayyyyy to scooped man! try 1 to 3 o'clock!

 

another thing you could try is slaving out the Ampeg to the GH50's power amp return. Have one amp into one cab and one into the other... or you could even use the TightMetal to run two outputs into each amp / cab set up. The pedal has an FX loop, just flip the bottom switch to Post instead of pre and it will split the Tight Metal sound to both amps! do this by running a cable from the regular output to one amp and another cable from the FX send on the pedal to the other amp.

 

 

If you still can't make due, you really need to evaluate your room and amp positioning situation... a new cab may help but it sounds like a settings problem. a pair of El34s isn't too expensive and I know a TightMetal sounds godly through the loop of my buddy's Laney VH100r so check it out. Might help to turn down the gain a tad too LOL.

 

 

what is your other guitarist playing through? another thing you could try is switching spots with your other guitarist buddy... stand next to his amp and have him stand next to yours... see if you can hear each other then ha

[theAntihero]

 

No...just no. 300 watts of all blue doodoo tone.

 

 

Actually the 300w is supposed to sound pretty good.

[earthoverdrive]

 

Actually the 300w is supposed to sound pretty good.

 

 

The 150 as well from what I've read.

[earthoverdrive]

 

I have the same amptweaker pedal and IMO you should try it with the thrash setting disengaged for more mids in your jam setting. Since your room is small you're going to get a lot of frequencies clashing with each other and the lack of mids isn't helping. By itself, the tone of the thrash/scoop switch sounds bad ass, but if you let your ears adjust to the tone in the mix it should help you be heard! If you're using the pedal through the clean channel on the Ampeg try this or add more mids on the amp. Also there is no way the GH50 should have trouble competing in a reasonable band mix. Maybe your tubes are shot. There's only 2 El34s in that amp so I think it would be worth replacing before you spend the money on a 300w Blue Doodoo, lol; plus retubing the BV is going to be pricey! Have you tried running the Amptweaker straight to the FX return/power amp in on the back of the GH50? Try it without the thrash switch, and turn up that tone knob! holy {censored} 8 o'clock is wayyyyy to scooped man! try 1 to 3 o'clock! another thing you could try is slaving out the Ampeg to the GH50's power amp return. Have one amp into one cab and one into the other... or you could even use the TightMetal to run two outputs into each amp / cab set up. The pedal has an FX loop, just flip the bottom switch to Post instead of pre and it will split the Tight Metal sound to both amps! do this by running a cable from the regular output to one amp and another cable from the FX send on the pedal to the other amp. If you still can't make due, you really need to evaluate your room and amp positioning situation... a new cab may help but it sounds like a settings problem. a pair of El34s isn't too expensive and I know a TightMetal sounds godly through the loop of my buddy's Laney VH100r so check it out. Might help to turn down the gain a tad too LOL. what is your other guitarist playing through? another thing you could try is switching spots with your other guitarist buddy... stand next to his amp and have him stand next to yours... see if you can hear each other then ha

 

 

It sounds pretty good and cuts a bit better without the thrash switch on but I prefer the tone with it on. I'll mess with all of the controls some more and see what I can do.

 

I've tried everything with the Laney, TM into it's rear, Ampeg into it's rear, Laney by itself again and again, it just {censored}s the bed way too fast and sounds like ass. If my cabs were louder it might be more usable but I still think I'd have issues with it only being 50 watts. I've been curious about the VH but I'm not so found of my GH right now so I'm in no hurry to try one.

 

We are a power trio. The bass player runs through a Big Muff so our tones so get somewhat mixed up for sure. We are probably going to completely rearrange our rehearsal space(8'x17') so that both rigs are on one wall pointing at/through the drummer and at us along the opposite wall. Or we could have the drummer along one wall and our amps along the opposite. We'll experiment as we need to make changes. Right now we have a setup as if the space was a wide but shallow stage with the rigs on either side of the drums but pointed inward.

[earthoverdrive]

We are going to rearrange our gear at next practice, that should help us hear one another better.

 

I decided against even driving the 70 miles to check out that Crate, I just don't want an 80lb head. Rediculous. I don't even like lugging around my 65lb diagonal slant 2x12. Thinking about a LOUD horizontal 2x12 to go under my 2x12 and an inexpensive class D power amp although I'm not sure how much power would be too much. If my cabs can handle 600 watts at 8 ohms(4 ohms together) would I be safe at 200 watts per cab? Don't want to blow them if I really crank. Don't want to cheat myself out of volume either though.

 

 

Try it without the thrash switch, and turn up that tone knob! holy {censored} 8 o'clock is wayyyyy to scooped man! try 1 to 3 o'clock!

 

 

I tried turning the tone knob to noon and beyond but it gets way way too trebly for me. I like a thick somewhat dark tone but one that is still very metal sounding as opposed to more sludgy/stoner.

[almightycrunch]

Yeah, I dunno, the basic lesson to be learned here is that an electric guitar amplified by a 200 watt guitar amplifier is MORE than enough power to be heard in any band setting, even one with a heavy hitting drummer, he cant hit hard enough to drown out a 200 watt amp, no way. Scooped mids players are going to always have the issue of "not being able to hear themselves" hence the volume wars. I know you like a dark sludgy tone, but bring up your mids, and you will find yourself loud and clear.

[Wookieslayer]

We are going to rearrange our gear at next practice, that should help us hear one another better. I decided against even driving the 70 miles to check out that Crate, I just don't want an 80lb head. Rediculous. I don't even like lugging around my 65lb diagonal slant 2x12. Thinking about a LOUD horizontal 2x12 to go under my 2x12 and an inexpensive class D power amp although I'm not sure how much power would be too much. If my cabs can handle 600 watts at 8 ohms(4 ohms together) would I be safe at 200 watts per cab? Don't want to blow them if I really crank. Don't want to cheat myself out of volume either though. I tried turning the tone knob to noon and beyond but it gets way way too trebly for me. I like a thick somewhat dark tone but one that is still very metal sounding as opposed to more sludgy/stoner.

 

if it's too trebly and you're going into the front of the amp, lower the treble knob on the amp... or keep the thrash switch engaged with the tone knob around noon / 1 o'clock.

 

If it were me I'd look into replacing the pair of power tubes in the GH50L and use it as a power amp or in conjunction with the Vh140c. I know the Ampeg is a loud amp but the Laney should be beast even at "just" 50w.... Maybe you don't like the earlier breakup of EL34s? I believe that amp can use 5881s as well.

 

Edit: actually eff 5881s, I would want to try KT77s! Eurotubes has a kit, 6l6 too

[Mike LX-R]

if it's too trebly and you're going into the front of the amp, lower the treble knob on the amp... or keep the thrash switch engaged with the tone knob around noon / 1 o'clock. If it were me I'd look into replacing the pair of power tubes in the GH50L and use it as a power amp or in conjunction with the Vh140c. I know the Ampeg is a loud amp but the Laney should be beast even at "just" 50w.... Maybe you don't like the earlier breakup of EL34s? I believe that amp can use 5881s as well. Edit: actually eff 5881s, I would want to try KT77s! Eurotubes has a kit, 6l6 too

 

in a GH50L KT77's don't sound that great IMO. Neither does E34L (haven't tried a regular EL34). I like 6CA7's quite a bit and 6L6's are my favorite, but I need to try those Sovtek 5881wxt tubes as I hear they're quite nice. I've played the GH50L with JJ 6L6 and Sovtek 6L6. JJ sounds better by a mile to my ears.

[Wookieslayer]

 

in a GH50L KT77's don't sound that great IMO. Neither does E34L (haven't tried a regular EL34). I like 6CA7's quite a bit and 6L6's are my favorite, but I need to try those Sovtek 5881wxt tubes as I hear they're quite nice. I've played the GH50L with JJ 6L6 and Sovtek 6L6. JJ sounds better by a mile to my ears.

 

 

Cool man! never actually owned one just played through one a couple of times with El34s.

 

There u go OP!