OT: Gun control...

[k-train]

Is anyone really surprised this happened? This has happened for many times before and with the amount of irresponsible gun owners in this country it's going to keep happening.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by Neilrocks25

blah blah the reason I am bored is because you have made up your mind I can't change that.

But you really should open your eyes.

From the outside looking in your country has some really bad problems. How long before it is like south africa?

 

I'm open to have my mind changed. I have stated reasons why your suggestions are useless yet you've failed to provide any information to the contrary. What is there to open my eyes about exactly? I realize there are problems. The difficulty is in finding a solution. Again I don't see how disarming someone like me (a law-abiding citizen) does anything to stop the people that don't follow the laws. There are plenty of felons out there that legally cannot have any firearm that have firearms. If guns became banned it would again be the guys like me (the law-abiding guy) that ended up disarmed. Not the same guy who has one now while its already illegal for him. Not to mention how murder has been illegal forever and yet we still have people committing this crime. How do you make a homicidal/suicidal person follow your rules and regulations when they are willing to commit murder and suicide? Does this really not make sense to you or what? I'm still waiting to hear how disarming me and others like me does anything to solve crimes that are not committed by me and others like me.

Let's pretend for a second you have a gun. You don't murder people. Ok well now we've taken that gun away from you. How many people are saved? Common sense says 0 since you don't kill people. Only realistic scenario is now if you ever need to protect yourself against someone armed you're absolutely {censored}ed. Excellent strategy.

[Mesa4x12er2]

Just for you Neil.

[gdwill2u]

 

Originally Posted by Neilrocks25

once you arm your teachers your civilised culture has died.

Just make guns tougher to get, don't necessarily ban them just have stricter guide lines.

1 lock up your weapons at home in a safe bolted to the ground, then keep the ammo in another safe meters away.

2. have random checks to make sure people are following the rules.

3. have a written test on why the person needs the gun and have it signed by a local official.

4. make sure every gun owned by a person has the serial numbers matched on a 2 or 3 year basis.

5. limit the amount of guns, and to be honest ban assault riffles or at least make the licence for them VERY strict indeed.

This way you can keep your right to have a weapon, but in turn may help reduce chance shootings.

Most criminals get illegal guns through break ins, if you make it very hard for them to get the weapons that helps keep at least a few guns off the street.

What do I know I am a Euro commie who has never had to worry about this stuff

Seriously I have family there and it does upset me to see mass killings like that, even more when I see kids my sons age are killed.

 

Hi neil, your plan for gun safety is has a flaw, it would be very difficult to get your gun in the case of a home break in, load it and be ready to fire.

I keep a sig 229 fully loaded and keep it next to my bed, I have my assault rifle under the bed, same deal fully loaded and ready for action.

I do however think that some creative work needs to be done if you have children under 10. One idea is to keep a clip ready while hiding the magazine and the gun in different places.

The other stuff you mention is gun control and not in keeping with the 2nd amendment, IMO.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by gdwill2u

Hi neil, it would be very difficult to get your gun in the case of a home break in, load it and be ready to fire.

I keep a sig 229 fully loaded and keep it next to my bed, I have my assault rifle under the bed, same deal fully loaded and ready for action.

I do however think that some creative work needs to be done if you have children under 10. One idea is to keep a clip ready while hiding the magazine and the gun in different places.

The other stuff you mention is gun control and not in keeping with the 2nd amendment, IMO.

 

He's not big on rights.

[almightycrunch]

 

Originally Posted by Michael AE

An idiot can't kill dozens of people with a pencil. He can with a gun. What's so hard to understand here?

 

But a guy with a sharp pencil can walk into a school and stab a kindergartner in the neck and kill him too, is it less tragic because it was only ONE child? Its not the gun, its the mentality. Ban guns all you want, do you really think you can round em all up anyways? Just like a prison, where knives are illegal, how many shanks do they find?? people are clever, they'll build a gun with whatever they can come up with, cardboard, duct tape, whatever.

[k-train]

 

Originally Posted by gdwill2u

Hi neil, it would be very difficult to get your gun in the case of a home break in, load it and be ready to fire.

I keep a sig 229 fully loaded and keep it next to my bed, I have my assault rifle under the bed, same deal fully loaded and ready for action.

I do however think that some creative work needs to be done if you have children under 10. One idea is to keep a clip ready while hiding the magazine and the gun in different places.

The other stuff you mention is gun control and not in keeping with the 2nd amendment, IMO.

 

How would you feel if someone took your guns and committed a mass murder? Lock your weapons up.

[Mesa4x12er2]

Just read this. Good stuff.

 

Originally Posted by Morgan Freeman

 

You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you kn

ow the name of a single victim of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem.

 

[k-train]

Just keep dodging the real problem

[InnerVision]

So..the solution to a tragedy is to strip more rights away?

Are all of you anti-gun guys pro patriot act? Pro Indefinite Detention??

It really wouldn't surprise me.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by k-train

Just keep dodging the real problem

 

Is that aimed at me? If so, do tell. What is the real problem that's being dodged?

[k-train]

 

Originally Posted by Jhideout

So..the solution to a tragedy is to strip more rights away?

Are all of you anti-gun guys pro patriot act? Pro Indefinite Detention??

It really wouldn't surprise me.

 

Didn't say that did I? This kid got his hands on weapons because of irresponsible gun owners. Focus on the problem.

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by k-train

Didn't say that did I? This kid got his hands on weapons because of irresponsible gun owners. Focus on the problem.

 

You talk about dodging the issue yet you say that's the issue? Check it out, I have a gun right here and no one is getting shot with it. The problem is a {censored}ed up little murderous {censored}. He didn't happen upon a gun and accidentally shoot someone. He was an evil little {censored} that went out of his way to kill a {censored}load of kids and adults. The root issue is {censored} humans. If I hand you a gun are you going to go shoot up the nearest school? No? Well then I guess your theory is out the window. It takes a special kind of {censored}bag to do this kind of thing, not an inanimate object.

[k-train]

i have guns too and no one is getting shot either, any idea why?

[Mesa4x12er2]

 

Originally Posted by k-train

i have guns too and no one is getting shot either, any idea why?

 

I suspect it's that root issue of not being an evil, suicidal, murderous piece of {censored}. See how when you take that factor out of the equation guns stop jumping up and killing people all on their own?

[k-train]

Whats to say something tragic happens in one of our lives and we go off the deep end? Humans are fragile creatures.

[gdwill2u]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

He's not big on rights.

 

Neil is one of my favorite forumite.

[k-train]

I'm also betting you don't keep your weapons laying around the house for anyone to grab.

[marshallnoise]

 

Originally Posted by madryan

Bull{censored}. All sorts of {censored} went down. It just wasn't sensationalized. Man has been killing man with whatever's handy since our ancestors figured out how to use the Mark-1 rock to bash out each others brains. If anything the scale of the killing has gotten smaller over time.

 

Culture. Amirite?

Man has always had the capacity for evil, but we also have an uncanny ability to control it...if we choose to.

[The Anomaly]

I don't know if there is anything we can do about this. Stricter gun control *might* make the numbers go down a little, but it won't change the core reason this happens.

It's our culture, plain and simple. It's who we are.

Our version of this country (it was already here and populated) was started by violently eradicating and/or moving a different people. We go to other countries and kill people, to inject our "freedoms" and ideals, to change they way they do things. We are a violent and bullish society. That's who we are.

[Stevetemp]

 

Originally Posted by Neilrocks25

You are sad your guns will get banned. Well maybe they should be loads of young children just had their brains blown out of their skulls again.

When is the next one?

 

There's been a lot of posts since this one, but I did have one thing to say about this...

I believe it is just IMPOSSIBLE to "ban guns" at this point. How do you propose to do that? Ask everyone to "PLEASE come in and turn in all yer guns"?

It's just not going to happen. Neither the criminals nor rightful legal and safe gun owners will do it. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

So, instead of harping and wasting time on the impossible...we have to proceed from there.

Any other ideas?

I Agree with people who said this is really a symptom of our society. Taking guns away won't make people less psychotic. Like Jurassic Park's dinos....they will "always find a way" to do what they do. I happen, to one extent or another, blame people around the people that do this. Not always possible, but symptoms and behavior and attitudes should be observed and help can be gotten. Again, I stress it's not ALWAYS possible to stop these things or foresee the occurrence...but all too often we sit by and do nothing. Getting people help can be extremely difficult, but it can be done if you love a person enough. I know from first hand experience.

We must proceed with the knowledge and surety that these things WILL happen again. Our society and the world is not getting any better.

I only wish that people would attack Arab/Islam violence with the same vehemence and attention to detail that America is attacked with.

(Sorry for ending that with a preposition! )

[Neilrocks25]

 

Originally Posted by gdwill2u

Hi neil, your plan for gun safety is has a flaw, it would be very difficult to get your gun in the case of a home break in, load it and be ready to fire.

I keep a sig 229 fully loaded and keep it next to my bed, I have my assault rifle under the bed, same deal fully loaded and ready for action.

I do however think that some creative work needs to be done if you have children under 10. One idea is to keep a clip ready while hiding the magazine and the gun in different places.

The other stuff you mention is gun control and not in keeping with the 2nd amendment, IMO.

 

I come form a place were we keep no guns and don't need to keep any guns for protection and you know what it's something I never think of or have to worry about. Isn't that nice

[Neilrocks25]

 

Originally Posted by gdwill2u

Neil is one of my favorite forumite.

 

Thanks I appreciate that a lot. I know I will upest a lot of people with my thoughts and ideals but I am honest. And you know what Bob you have made an impression on me in a very positive way. Even though we may not see eye to eye on every thing I really respect and learn a lot from your opinion.

On a side note, I like clay pigeon shooting but a life without guns is fine by me. Maybe I am weird but I am what I am and I like it. All I can wish for in life is my son is ok.

[Neilrocks25]

 

Originally Posted by Mesa4x12er2

He's not big on guns

 

Fixed

[FourT6and2]

 

Originally Posted by Neilrocks25

I come form a place were we keep no guns and don't need to keep any guns for protection and you know what it's something I never think of or have to worry about. Isn't that nice

 

Neil, as you know I lived in Japan for a number of years. One of my fondest memories was walking home from lunch on a Saturday. A man across the street in a bloody butcher's apron waved to me, holding a giant knife. I walked over and talked with him. Turned out he was the bus driver at one of the elementary schools I taught at. He was gutting two deer he had just shot with a high-powered rifle that he was legally aloud to own. He invited me over for dinner that night to eat the deer with his wife and some friends. In exchange, he asked me to translate the English instructions for the new rifle scope he just bought.

You see, Neil... even in Japan anybody can get a gun. Maybe not a handgun. But a gun nonetheless.

And this guy was a bus driver at an elementary school. What was to stop him from showing up at school and shooting everyone? Nothing.

The difference is NOT the proliferation of guns. It is the culture of the society that makes a difference. Japan's culture is based on social harmony, pride, and saving face (honor above all else). In a culture like that, crime happens less (and the number support that) because people are ingrained from birth to think of others over themselves. So the thought of killing another person, regardless of weapon, is most likely not going to happen as often. At least those who do have those thoughts aren't going to follow through as often as in other cultures. It's a cultural and social issue, not a firearms issue.

American culture is disgusting sometimes. But I don't think it's the guns. It's people. Humans are animals. How often we neglect that thought.