12 string vs 6 string

[Rocker104]

I need to know the advantages and disadvantages of both. I just need a songwriter's acoustic.

[Freeman Keller]

Oh, boy.... Well, IMHO two different animals. A few players (Art Sulger, Huddy Leadbetter) make do with only a 12 string, but for most of us it is a nice and interesting addition to the quiver.

As you know, the doubled courses (octaves on the bottom 4, paired on the top) adds a richness and complexity to the sound, almost like a second instrument. Depending on how they are tuned and played that can be jingle-jangle (think Mr Tamborine Man) or an incredible growl (Leadbelly, Kottke). You can sing with them (Seeger, Joni Mitchel, SRV, Geremia) or play them solo (Kottke, Sulger, FK).

They are slightly more of a hassle - tuning and restring takes a bit longer, they don't like to be capoed (usually have to retune), they sometimes have structural issues unless well built, might be slightly harder to fret, intonate poorly. My singer/songwriter friend has both (Guild 12, Carvin 6) and uses them for whatever song seems fitting (you can play any song on a 12 but some really take advantage of the octaves). Our TAH is another that uses both, in different tunings, to get some very different effects.

As I've said before, the Grand Pianos of the guitar world. Double your fun

[JerseyGuy]

Freeman's right on, as always. He usually reminds interested parties that most 12s at some point suffer enough stress that they need an expensive neck reset. Be wary of buying used sight unseen or sound unheard.

I started out playing a 12 exclusively because even playing and practicing simple chords sounded like the Philharmonic. I now play a lot of 6 as well as 12 and find that since my last name isn't Kottke or Ledbetter or McGuinn most of my fingerpicking sounds better on a 6 -- Jorma Kaukonen's "Embryonic Journey" is a conspicuous exception, though it took me along time to get okay with. I couldn't live without both now. Getting one of those elec tuners that clips on the peghead makes the tuning hassle almost go away.

Also, some 12s have very distinctive sounds. Taylors are "bright," Guilds are boomier, others balanced. This might make quite a difference in how you feel about a 12.

Good luck.

[Tony Burns]

12 strings are always alot of fun , you can tune it down and capo the second fret -which will be easier on the old fingers and keep the neck from bowing - I also think having both a 6 string and a 12 string is always better than just a 6 string - but if i could only have one - it would be a decent 6 string !

[totamus]

Freeman is dead on. I would add a little. 12 strings have a siren's call, because their sound is so full. Many new guitarist pick 12 strings because of the rich sound, which they feel enhances their novice playing ability. But they have drawbacks. Hard to keep in tune, hard on your hands and fingertips, necks that tend to warp, a wider neck, hard to capo.

 

They are wonderful instruments, but if you are picking out a guitar to be your only acoustic, and for songwriting, I would really recommend a decent 6 string. The 12 string guitar is like a lot of things, ok in small doses but rarely suitable as the main dish.

[Freeman Keller]

Freeman's right on, as always. He usually reminds interested parties that most 12s at some point suffer enough stress that they need an expensive neck reset. Be wary of buying used sight unseen or sound unheard.

 

 

 

I usually remind people that almost every guitar will need a neck reset - both my Martin 6 string and 12 string have had them. I also remind people that 12 strings have about 50 percent more tension on the top - that means that they should be designed to withstand it (duh). However many aren't, which adds to their playability difficulties. I also suggest that a buyer check any used guitar carefully, but doubly so with a used 12'er.

 

However a well build well set up well tuned twelve can be an absolute joy to play and I certainly recommend checking out good ones by Taylor, Guild, Seagull, Breedlove, Martin - more or less in that order

[DeepEnd]

. . . They are wonderful instruments, but if you are picking out a guitar to be your only acoustic, and for songwriting, I would really recommend a decent 6 string.

+1 I owned only a 12-string for a number of years but it currently just sits in the case while I play my 6. I do occasional songwriting and I've written one on my 12 (a hymn, believe it or not) but I find my 6 to be a more suitable all-around guitar.

[DeepEnd]

Sorry for the double post. Computer's going wonky.

[Nevandal]

One cool thing with 12 string guitars that I've discovered, is, especially if you like alternate tunings..such as open d, or open d minor. Tune one of the pairs of strings so that they are a full step apart, and that will give you some weird dissonance going on. What I like to do is take one of the octave pairs and tune them so they're 11 half steps apart...you can get some really interesting sounds that way.

[Clif Schlicher]

However a well build well set up well tuned twelve can be an absolute joy to play and I certainly recommend checking out good ones by Taylor, Guild, Seagull, Breedlove, Martin - more or less in that order

 

 

Absolutely! Both my Martin and Seagull tune easily and hold tune well, with themselves at any rate. Usually when I have to tune up, it's when I'm getting ready to play with the group at church, when we all have to be spot on. Only the digital tuner informs me that the guitar is a bit off. I find both easy to play, though maybe not 6 string easy, I have my Martin in now for a setup. I fully expect it to be smooth as silk when I get it back. Looking for slightly easier barres in 1st position and easier fingering of some of the jazz chords I am trying out. No intonation issue either.

 

As to capos, I use the Shubb Deluxe, right smack up to, but not on, the fret. With carefully adjusted tension, only the low E pulls very slightly sharp. But not enough to re-tune. Probably a couple of cents off. I actually used to tune my old 12 sting that way on purpose. I'd get everything on the money, and then sharpen the octaves ever so slightly to get a slightly "wet" sound. The two middle stops on a diatonic accordion are tuned this way specifically to get this effect.

 

Clif

[happy-man]

Slightly? A bit?! Tuning is the main reason I no longer play my 12-string.

 

 

I don't spend any more time tuning my Martin D12X1 than my other guitars. Actually I don't have to mess with tuning much on any of them.

 

It's great having a 12 string in your arsenal. It's a different dimension in sound. Sometimes that fullness will take what was a very simple sounding song and make it sound complex even though it's not. I've had the opposite happen too though. I've had a song and thought, "This would sound great on the 12", pulled out the 12, and find I liked it better on the 6.

 

Then there are those songs that just must be done on a 12. I remember when I was shopping around for my 12 playing "Give a Little Bit" on every one I could get my hands on.

 

Scott O

[Samilyn]

Like HappyMan, I have a Martin D12X1 and I'm extremely happy with it. My 12-er is my primary git, undoubtedly because it's the only halfway decent git I own. I do everything on it - strum, fingerpick, flatpick.

The only 6-ers I've ever played that I really fell head-over-heels in love with have been high-end Martins, an old Hummingbird, and one Guild F65.

My 12-er stays in good tune after the initial new-string-stretch, which lasts about 48 hours. Restringing isn't a PITA for me. Takes 30 min to an hour unless I happen to be giving the git a good cleaning at the same time.

Hard on the fingers? Nope, not for me. Please bear in mind, I don't often play a 6-er, so have no real basis for comparison. I can play my 12-er all day long and only be a teensy bit sore the next day. I will say, though, my setup is exceptionally low. The Martie plays like butter and I use either extra-light or light strings on it. Nothing larger than 11s.

I hate playing with a capo, so learned early on to transpose simple stuff on the fly. (None of my music involves very difficult or elaborate chords anyway)

And FWIW, even my infamous Blue Beater is a 12-er. It's old, beat up, needs a new nut and a neck reset, and its high action is utter hell to play, but it still sounds magnificent.