Why aren't there more archtop acoustics?

[DarkHorseJ27]

Needless to say, those things look awesome. But how come there are only two production models currently (Loar and Eastman)? Other than those one would have to get a used Kay or Harmony (doubtful that they would be worth the money and effort), a vintage Gibson or Epiphone (lot of $), or go custom shop (also a lot of $).

 

I know part of it is that the genres of music archtop acoustics are most associated with aren't exactly immensely popular, and archtop won't play nice with most current forms of acoustic amplification, but I would think there would be at least more that two options for production acoustic archtops.

[MahaloVision]

The good ones don't come cheap, and the cheap ones don't sell enough to warrant the production. They're fun to make as long as you're not looking to make money.

[Hudman]

Because everyone can't play free-form jazz.......

[Stackabones]

Gitane makes acoustic archtops ... as do most of the djangobox makers.

 

Godin has one coming out soon ... the 5th Avenue or something like that.

 

Martin has one model iirc.

 

Gretsch has the Synchromatic.

 

Washburn makes an oval hole (the J4) that's very much in the style of the old Gibby/Epi Howard Roberts Artist.

 

Don't forget: f-holes aren't the only archtop option.

 

 

[Stackabones]

Because everyone can't play free-form jazz.......

 

[DarkHorseJ27]

Gitane makes acoustic archtops ... as do most of the djangobox makers. Godin has one coming out soon ... the 5th Avenue or something like that. Martin has one model iirc. Gretsch has the Synchromatic. Washburn makes an oval hole (the J4) that's very much in the style of the old Gibby/Epi Howard Roberts Artist. Don't forget: f-holes aren't the only archtop option.

 

Oops, I forgot about the Gretsch. Didn't about the others. Still however, that is not a lot. I think I'm just used to being spoiled with options. That, and I wish there was one I could afford.

[Stackabones]

That, and I wish there was one I could afford.

 

 

That's the trick. Budget archtops are almost an oxymoron. Among the djangoboxes, the Cigano can be had for around $300 to $400. But most arctops start in the $500 area, and then go up and up and up.

 

Of course, then there's used. I got this one for $50.

 

[simplygoodmusic]

Laminate archtops don't seem to get much love for their acoustic tones, and solid ones are very expensive to make. The djangoboxes seem to be cheaper (maybe because the arch is not as deep, and thus easier to make? I dont know), but generally the price is the problem.

 

I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had that kind of cash.

[brahmz118]

After drooling over the selection at archtop.com for years I finally decided to look into acquiring one. I'm guessing the labor involved in carving a solid arched top is the reason for the high cost, though I don't know if that's the reason they're relatively uncommon. Seems like f-style mandolins don't suffer from the same scarcity.

 

My custom build took 7 months, but I told the builder I wasn't in any rush. I have to admit I've fallen in love with mine -- the big buttery tone of an 18" body, the effortless action with medium gauge strings, the comfort of a neck that angles back slightly, the ease of planting fingers on the elevated finger rest, and of course the beauty of the instrument. It really works for any style of music. Now I just have to figure out a method for acoustic amplification.

 

[Stackabones]

the big buttery tone of an 18" body, the effortless action with medium gauge strings, the comfort of a neck that angles back slightly, the ease of planting fingers on the elevated finger rest, and of course the beauty of the instrument. It really works for any style of music. Now I just have to figure out a method for acoustic amplification.

 

:drool:

[Hudman]

 

I joke, I joke, I kid, I kid.......

[Terry Allan Hall]

Needless to say, those things look awesome. But how come there are only two production models currently (Loar and Eastman)? Other than those one would have to get a used Kay or Harmony (doubtful that they would be worth the money and effort), a vintage Gibson or Epiphone (lot of $), or go custom shop (also a lot of $). I know part of it is that the genres of music archtop acoustics are most associated with aren't exactly immensely popular, and archtop won't play nice with most current forms of acoustic amplification, but I would think there would be at least more that two options for production acoustic archtops.

 

Hit as many guitar shows as you can...eventually, you'll find a great sounding, reasonably priced archtop.

 

One thing to consider is that many Harmony/Regal/Kay/similar level American-made and quite a few European-made (Hofner/Hopf/etc.) archtops can very good sounding, but you have to keep an eye out for them, and you may well need to have a neck reset done, but they are out there to be found...and a $300 or less Harmony/Regal/Kay/similar level American-made or Hofner/Hopf European-made archtop that sounds great + a $300 neck reset can = an amazingly nice jazz box, equal to or better than a $1500 Eastman or Loar...for a mere $600 or less!

 

Besides, half the fun is the hunting!

[bjorn-fjord]

For the record, Maccaferri/Selmer/Django style guitars are not true archtops in the traditional sense because the tops are not carved, they are pressed into an arched shape with curved braces.

[Stackabones]

For the record, Maccaferri/Selmer/Django style guitars are not true archtops in the traditional sense because the tops are not carved, they are pressed into an arched shape with curved braces.

 

Cool! Thanks for the clarification!

 

So ... is it technically correct to still call them archtops? Seems like the retailers list them that way ... but that's prolly just for ease of searching. Or is it better just to call them SelMacs?

[Pascal]

Cool! Thanks for the clarification! So ... is it technically correct to still call them archtops? Seems like the retailers list them that way ... but that's prolly just for ease of searching. Or is it better just to call them SelMacs?

 

Some call them dome-top, IRRC.

 

Is you Gitane really arched, BTW? I played a few Gitane and Cigano the other day, and honestly, except for the back of the Ciganos, these guitars were extremely flat. I couldn't tell the difference from flat tops, really.

[Etienne Rambert]

I'll get you a solid wood archtop - you name the woods - your name or whatever logo you prefer inlaid on the headstock,

Schaller tuners, $350. Add a Kent Armstrong floatingpickup, $420.

 

Then you ship it $250-350.

 

It looks like this:

 

 

My archtop on the left, BTW, kicks serious **s. It's Mahogany/Spruce.

I love it. It's bluesy and smooth amplified. It's loud and clear unamplified.

 

There are hybrid archtops over here too.

 

They look like this: archtop with oval hole:

 

 

Or finally, there are traditional Maple archtops. They look like this:

 

 

They call come with hand-carved ebony wood tailpieces, ebony fretboards, ebony floating bridges,

great action and your own name on the headstock. You can specify what finish you want.

I recommend a less glossy finish. Less danger of cracking in low humidity.

 

Problem is - I'm not making any money doing it at those prices.

And BTW, the two F hole archtops in the photos are both SOLD.

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'll get you a solid wood archtop - you name the woods - your name or whatever logo you prefer inlaid on the headstock, Schaller tuners, $350. Add a Kent Armstrong floatingpickup, $420. Then you ship it $250-350. It looks like this: My archtop on the left, BTW, kicks serious **s. It's Mahogany/Spruce. I love it. It's bluesy and smooth amplified. It's loud and clear unamplified. There are hybrid archtops over here too. They look like this: archtop with oval hole: Or finally, there are traditional Maple archtops. They look like this: They call come with hand-carved ebony wood tailpieces, ebony fretboards, ebony floating bridges, great action and your own name on the headstock. You can specify what finish you want. I recommend a less glossy finish. Less danger of cracking in low humidity. Problem is - I'm not making any money doing it at those prices. And BTW, the two F hole archtops in the photos are both SOLD.

 

You know, Marcellis, it seems you could make an honest profit by bringing a few of those over and selling 'em...there's nothing available in the US nearly as nice as those for the $$$, and if you could get 'em over here for $600-700, you could surely sell 'em for twice what you have invested, for sure!...

 

If I had your connections, I'd have to give that some serious thought!

[Stackabones]

Some call them dome-top, IRRC. Is you Gitane really arched, BTW? I played a few Gitane and Cigano the other day, and honestly, except for the back of the Ciganos, these guitars were extremely flat. I couldn't tell the difference from flat tops, really.

 

Slightly, sorta arched ... if you squint.

 

 

Don't ruin it for me.

[simplygoodmusic]

I read on djangobooks somewhere that the Ciganos have more arch than the gitanes. No one said it was a bad thing though.

[Pascal]

I read on djangobooks somewhere that the Ciganos have more arch than the gitanes. No one said it was a bad thing though.

 

That's what I heard too. And it would be a good thing (well, up to a certain point, they're not supposed to be archtops). But then, the ones I played had perfectly flat tops, as far as I could tell.

Maybe they're just not representative of the overall production?.

 

 

Doesn't mean you couldn't play music on them, of course.

[guitarcapo]

Archtop acoustics were designed for an outdated form of music, namely acoustic jazz guitar played with others in an acoustic ensemble setting.

The idea was to create an acoustic instrument that could cut through the other acoustic band instruments by playing focused mid heavy tone.

Think of groups like Django's Quintet all gathered around a microphone recording or broadcasting for the radio...Or maybe Count Basie's orchestra with Al Green strumming jazz chords over all those horns with a sound that's almost percussive.

 

Archtop jazz guitars are drooled over by high-end guitar collectors because of their complexity of manufacture but they're usually the wrong tool for the job for modern acoustic music. Too mid heavy. They sound loud but at a sacrifice of tone. Nowdays with modern amplification, recording techniques, and the end of the "big bands" it's not a sacrfice worth getting into.

 

Some archtop builders are realizing this and are trying to redesign the archtop acoustic for modern times (like D'Aquisto)....But at best the guitars seem to aproach acoustic flattops in tone.

Archtops acoustics are lately used to add a cool interesting tonal variation to the mix (like dobros) but that's about it.

 

 

 

 

IMHO

[C70man]

 

Archtop acoustics were designed for an outdated form of music, namely acoustic jazz guitar played with others in an acoustic ensemble setting. The idea was to create an acoustic instrument that could cut through the other acoustic band instruments by playing focused mid heavy tone. Think of groups like Django's Quintet all gathered around a microphone recording or broadcasting for the radio...Or maybe Count Basie's orchestra with Al Green strumming jazz chords over all those horns with a sound that's almost percussive. Archtop jazz guitars are drooled over by high-end guitar collectors because of their complexity of manufacture but they're usually the wrong tool for the job for modern acoustic music. Too mid heavy. They sound loud but at a sacrifice of tone. Nowdays with modern amplification, recording techniques, and the end of the "big bands" it's not a sacrfice worth getting into. Some archtop builders are realizing this and are trying to redesign the archtop acoustic for modern times (like D'Aquisto)....But at best the guitars seem to aproach acoustic flattops in tone. Archtops acoustics are lately used to add a cool interesting tonal variation to the mix (like dobros) but that's about it.

 

 

Couldn't possibly add anything to that...except they are beautiful to look at and I want one.

[Etienne Rambert]

TAH - I'm thinking of making an archtop and shipping it to the States for a professional review.

 

Stay in touch.You're a candidate. It would be a free archtop with the owner's name - or his/her chosen logo - on the headstock. This whole

project would cost me about $700 counting shipping. So I'm being careful.

 

Are you qualified to give pro-reviews at HC? I think people would really like fine guitars with their names in Abalone/Ebony on the headstocks.

 

Right now - his archtops are all sold anyway. He'd need to make one from scratch.

 

 

You know, Marcellis, it seems you could make an honest profit by bringing a few of those over and selling 'em...there's nothing available in the US nearly as nice as those for the $$$, and if you could get 'em over here for $600-700, you could surely sell 'em for twice what you have invested, for sure!... If I had your connections, I'd have to give that some serious thought!

 

__________________

[Terry Allan Hall]

TAH - I'm thinking of making an archtop and shipping it to the States for a professional review. Stay in touch.You're a candidate. It would be a free archtop with the owner's name - or his/her chosen logo - on the headstock. This whole project would cost me about $700 counting shipping. So I'm being careful. Are you qualified to give pro-reviews at HC? I think people would really like fine guitars with their names in Abalone/Ebony on the headstocks. Right now - his archtops are all sold anyway. He'd need to make one from scratch. __________________

 

Too cool...where do I sign?

[Etienne Rambert]

I'm stll undecided about the whole project TAH. HC charges for professional reviews. I don't know how much. I'm going to check out archtop.com and a few other sites.

 

I klnow these things are bargains. I have enormous confidence in the guitars. I don't have enormous confidence in guitar owners. (Not including yourself).

 

But the laminate Godins - competition in that price range - come with some kind of warranty, I assume. And shipping is already factored into that price. I need to factor shipping of these name or logo personalized guitars into the price and keep it competitive with the Godins.

 

But there is a lot of interest in archtops. My luthier sells every one he makes within a week or two. His dreads & jumbos just sit there.

 

I can beat North American& European manufacturers on quality woods and workmanship in that price range. That will be the easy part.

 

I'm not sure I can equal them of undercut them a small amount on price. So the one question I have to answer is:

 

How do I make any money in these transactions? Not only that, if one is busted up in shipping, I lose a fortune.

 

I'll keep you posted.