Members EvilTwin Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 A thread on choices for a classical guitar got me thinking about this topic... Willie Nelson is famous for playing a classical, nylon-string guitar with a pick. Are there any famous flamenco players that use a pick? I ask this because it seems like a natural fit. Flamenco guitars are designed to be brighter and louder than a regular classical, and you get more volume and clarity with a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 I know that Rodrigo y Gabriela play music with flamenco elements -- though they've said themselves that they do NOT play flamenco (hats off to them for knowing the score). Seems to be plenty of flamenco-esque music with flatpicking players, but it hedges into the new age/smooth jazz side of the dial. I did some listening a while ago. Nothing specific to recommend -- though in general it sounded a bit slick. Perhaps it lacked duende? btw: I experimented with some flamenco pieces (easy ones) on my Gitane using Wegens. It was pretty cool and opened up some new things for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilTwin Posted August 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 I know that Rodrigo y Gabriela play music with flamenco elements -- though they've said themselves that they do NOT play flamenco (hats off to them for knowing the score). Seems to be plenty of flamenco-esque music with flatpicking players, but it hedges into the new age/smooth jazz side of the dial. I did some listening a while ago. Nothing specific to recommend -- though in general it sounded a bit slick. Perhaps it lacked duende? btw: I experimented with some flamenco pieces (easy ones) on my Gitane using Wegens. It was pretty cool and opened up some new things for me. I think I've seen Fareed Haque play a nylon string (not flamenco-style, of course) with a pick...but it sounded kinda smooth jazz-ish, too. Anything that is too slickly produced will lose a bit of soul along the way, I guess. Some things are supposed to be a little rough around the edges, y'know? I haven't experimented too much with my Cordoba gypsy box to play flamenco-style stuff (mainly because it's just too darn loud for my apartment), but now you've got me interested in playing it for this style. Right now, I'm using an old nylon string that I bought for $50, and I had always thought of it as just a mongrel 7/8 sized classical (all lam, and certainly no cypress for the back/sides). But it hit me last night that the thing was just too bright to be a regular classical, and it really barks with a wood Sarod pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 No major flamenco players use a pick. From my perspective, it would completely limit their ability to use rasgueos (rapid sequential strums with multiple fingers). It is also, of course, non-traditional and frowned-upon. Use a pick and you automatically fall into the New-Age camp. There are, however, a number of pieces which predominantly use the thumbnail and I imagine that one could adapt the use of a pick for those. If you're not trying to define yourself as a traditionalist flamenco player (which is already hard enough if you're not from Spain and a Gitano by birth), I don't see why you shouldn't experiment with a pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 If you're not trying to define yourself as a traditionalist flamenco player (which is already hard enough if you're not from Spain and a Gitano by birth) ... And there's the rub ... it seems that no matter how talented you are or how much work you put in, you've got to have the right blood -- or your mentor has to have the right blood -- in order to be accepted. Whatever that means. Maybe eventually there will be enough mentors w/o the proper bloodline to pass on the knowledge and develop new traditions? I guess there's always the bugbear of authenticity lurking in the woods. Yet ... there are plenty of non-trads (wrong blood) acting all trad! Who will be the golden child that avoids being devoured by the bugbear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members min7b5 Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Todd K, whom I think has posted on some these forums from time to time, used to have his own forum with videos on his use of hybrid picking in flamenco. I found one his old videos here: but that's not true flamenco, I guess. But he does do traditional flamenco this way, and he's a monster in my opinion. He was a big influence on me a few years back in terms of me developing my own hybrid picking to play solo jazz things that I used to do fingerstyle:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Yet ... there are plenty of non-trads (wrong blood) acting all trad! Flamenco players are generally divided between Gitano (gypsy-blood) and payo (everybody else). And you're right, a lot of payo aficionados seem quick to act and criticize as if they were pure-blooded Gitanos. I'm not even sure that Paco de Lucia and Paco Pena are pure-blooded Gitanos. [YOUTUBE]BTg7-3RkTgI[/YOUTUBE] Here's Jin Oki. As traditional and as competent as some of the best. But I doubt that he's that well-recognized outside of Japan. Certainly for me, I'll always be an outsider. I don't plan on defining myself as a traditionalist but I'm happy to learn some traditional pieces and play them appropriately. So just play your instrument in whatever way works ... and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilTwin Posted August 20, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 And there's the rub ... it seems that no matter how talented you are or how much work you put in, you've got to have the right blood -- or your mentor has to have the right blood -- in order to be accepted. Whatever that means. Maybe eventually there will be enough mentors w/o the proper bloodline to pass on the knowledge and develop new traditions? I guess there's always the bugbear of authenticity lurking in the woods. Yet ... there are plenty of non-trads (wrong blood) acting all trad! Who will be the golden child that avoids being devoured by the bugbear? Heck, Paco de Luc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 The most convincing I've heard so far: [YOUTUBE]4QnCEXO6ZYM[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]Qf6yESS0qVE[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]p5RFveSPMWo[/YOUTUBE] Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 The most convincing I've heard so far: Good luck! Great performances! Not flamenco, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Great performances! Not flamenco, of course. But still, the closest thing I've seen. If you have other examples, I'm definitely a taker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 But still, the closest thing I've seen. If you have other examples, I'm definitely a taker. [YOUTUBE]pnK6zadL0-I[/YOUTUBE]Todd's is close, but even he acknowledges that this isn't flamenco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 We started with Willie, moved on to the Gypsy connection which brings Django into the mix. To complete the circle, I understand Willie chose his guitar so as to be able to mimic those sweet tones he heard from Django. Pretty unique approach for a country boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Todd's is close, but even he acknowledges that this isn't flamenco. Great player, I enjoyed it! I actually opened the link in m7b5's post, but sort of discarded it (with respect to the thread, not its quality), because of the hybrid picking. For some reason I assumed the OP was looking for something 100% flat-picked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wu ming Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 I am a traditionalist in that nylon really needs fingers to play. but also i am open to new things too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 I am a traditionalist in that nylon really needs fingers to play. And often good nails too! I'm glad my fingernails have thickened. Of course, now they grow faster too. I probably spend more time on my nails than my wife and daughter ... combined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members redhawks2 Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 There is a genre of music called Nuevo Flamenco which is a bit of a stretch but is generally played with a pick on nylon strings. there is an artist known as Armik who has out close to 20 albums of this type of music and he is an incredible player. Very catchy melodies and easy to listen to. One album that comes to mind is Isla Del Sol. Catch some of it if you can. Very cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ChiyoDad Posted August 20, 2008 Members Share Posted August 20, 2008 Good summary diagram: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Simon76 Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 What model is Willies Trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Stackabones Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 What model is Willies Trigger? 1969 Martin N-20. It's got a Baldwin piezo in it. Very hard to find that Baldwin. IIRC Jerry Reed has one, too. btw, Martin put out a sig of the N-20 sans holes and Baldwin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 Good summary diagram: Rodrigo y Gabriela should be added to this chart. And a picture of a flamingo. (Edit: ooops, I missed it, the bird is there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilTwin Posted August 21, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 Yeah, I read an old Guitar Player interview where he says that. I guess that's why we call him the Honky Tonk Django! Or pot-headed, honky tonk Django. I also forgot about Carlos Santana: I've seen him play a nylon string with a pick (although it's not flamenco). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pascal Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 I also forgot about Carlos Santana: I've seen him play a nylon string with a pick (although it's not flamenco). If non-flamenco nylon-string with a pick is what you are after, check out also John McLaughlin and his Wechter acoustic: his trio with Trilok Gurtu and successively Jonas Hellborg, Kai Eckardt, Jeff Berlin and Dominique Di Piazza, his duet with Jonas Hellborg, his "Mediterranean Concerto", etc.. Or with De Lucia and DiMeola, of course. And I also really like Jose Maria Saluzzi's playing with Dino Saluzzi. Although I'm not sure it's 100% nylon string and 100% flat picking, it is definitely worth checking out (albums = "Cite de la musique", "Responsarium"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members garthman Posted August 21, 2008 Members Share Posted August 21, 2008 If non-flamenco nylon-string with a pick is what you are after, check out also John McLaughlin and his Wechter acoustic: his trio with Trilok Gurtu and successively Jonas Hellborg, Kai Eckardt, Jeff Berlin and Dominique Di Piazza, his duet with Jonas Hellborg, his "Mediterranean Concerto", etc.. Or with De Lucia and DiMeola, of course. I'll second that And have a listen to JMcL and Paco playing Frevo Rasgado just to whet your appetite: [YOUTUBE]9-SXt7H-eUk[/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members EvilTwin Posted August 22, 2008 Author Members Share Posted August 22, 2008 Well, now that I've been completely humbled... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.