Members JaLester Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Today I went through the steps to take my martin D-2R from a satin to a gloss/semi-gloss finish. The satin finish had become very spotty and there were several areas where my arm/body created a glossy finish, especially on the top. After all the work, the guitar looks great, but sounds somewhat different than before. Here are my steps so that you guys can tell me if I goofed too terribly bad or not... I used 0000 steel wool to pull the satin finish off the guitar, and to clean the wood for the polish. I didn't go overboard, but I made sure that everything looked clean and smooth before the next step. It was somewhat glossier after the steel wool was used, but only by a little bit. I then used Meguiar's Deep Crystal System step 2, which is a polish, and the wood really looked good after this. I used approximately 5 applications on the top, sides, and back. I hope I didn't use too much polish, but will see how things look and sound after a week or so... Lastly I used Meguiar's Step 3, which is a carnuba wax, to protect the finish. I used 2 very light coats on all sides to make sure that the new finish on my guitar is going to last. My problem is that my martin was a huge cannon full of sound, and now after the work, it's volume isn't the same. The guitar is around 10-15 years old and the top had opened up very nicely. It still sounds like a good guitar, but the dynamics are very different and the tone isn't nearly as bass heavy as it used to be. My question is...will the top of my guitar become more flexible and open up again, or did I put too much into the top of my guitar to keep it from vibrating like it should? Any help or input would be great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Seems that there is always a thread over on AGF or the Taylor forum about polishing out a satin finish guitar. I've never heard any complaints about ruining the tone by doing it. I've considered polishing my DN3, but just haven't worked up the nerve yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stinky_seagull Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 Hmm... According to the page linked below, Meguiar's step 3 contains silicone. I wonder if that was the culprit? Hopefully the guitar won't be too badly affected for long if you just put on light coats. http://www.tomyoungguitar.com/OrsinoizingPage.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kimona Posted November 21, 2008 Members Share Posted November 21, 2008 I polished a satin finish Takamine to a semi-gloss finish with a non-silicone product. It was quite an effort, but it turned out extremely well. I didn't notice any difference in tone afterward. However, unlike you, I didn't see the need to seal it with a wax. Maybe 2 coats of a silicone based wax is your problem... IDK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 12Gauge Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 I don't know if I would have used the step 3 wax. I did my larrivee using Meguier's scratch X and then the step 2 polish. It turned out very nice but I didn't notice any difference in tone. What's done is done so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I would tend to think the sound will come back in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimmy Chaos Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 The loss of tone is becuase the satin finish resonates more freely, the layers you've added may have affected that. Both my acoustic guitars are satin finish, I really like the sound. I agree there a lot easier to ding and I have the same problem of the bit where my arm drapes over the top of the guitar looks like it's been buffed, but I think it adds character to the guitar. Can I ask, do you regret doing it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 It sounds like the only step you took that actually added anything to the surface was using the carnuba wax. Removing that with some good polishing compound might help. The surface won't shine as much, but it might help the tone. BTW, use some caution with rubbing or polishing compounds. They are very fine abrasives, and you can rub right through the finish down to the wood if you aren't careful. That would be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boxorox Posted November 22, 2008 Members Share Posted November 22, 2008 Gee whiz. Not trying to be mean, but your guitar answered your question before you started. If just playing can polish parts of your guitar to "Glossy", all you need to do is polish or buff it to a gloss. No need to remove original finish, no need to apply any abrasive, and definately no need to apply wax. Wax=weight. Try not to use products that accumulate thru use, like wax. They look great now, but they build up and may discolor in the future. Meguiar's makes great stuff, but it's for cars and you have to be careful about transferring a good result on a car or hardwood floors or a coffee table to a good result on a guitar. In your favor is that it's Carnuba, a good wax. Vigorous hand polishing should remove it over time. Then again, maybe your guitar is being fickle because you left it unstrung for so long while you were doing this. She might brighten up with some serious playing. In the meantime, don't use anything that builds up through use. I might get impatient, and micromesh the top, then buff it out with my mouse, but I would not suggest that to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted November 23, 2008 Members Share Posted November 23, 2008 Most manufacturers use the same materials for their gloss and satin finishes, however stain may have more solids since is is frequently used on slighly lower grades of wood (which may not be prepared or pore filled as much). A gloss finish is usually several or many thin coats that then are sequentially sanded from about 600 grit thru 8, 12, and maybe up to about 20000 grit. Next several buffing stages are used - often three, and a final swirl remove polish. The whole ideas is that each stage removes the scratches left by the last one. The simple way of "semi-glossing" a satin finish with Mequiers products is well documented (look in the FAQ at UMGF) and will give an acceptable results but will not be anywhere like what the factory does with a buffing wheel. I've done it to the back of my Taylor 314 and I like the effect - but it doesn't look anything like the lacquer finishes that I put on my handmade guitars. It also didn't do anything to change the sound (but I didn't do the top). The very thin amount you removed shouldn't have made any affect on your - if anything the arguement is that it should have improved the sound (that is why many classicals are French Polished - to get the thinnest possible finish). I'm going to guess that is was something else - you put new strings on it or something like that. Btw - my comments on gloss finishes don't apply to some of the glossy Asian guitars that use a fairly thick coating of catalyzed poly - these are designed to dry glossy with no polishing.l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bubbalou Posted November 23, 2008 Members Share Posted November 23, 2008 My 16 series Martin Dreadnaught had a gloss top and flat sides and back.After polishing (no steel wool used) mine sounds different but for the better. I did use some polishing compound and a lot of hand rubbing using a microfiber cloth. Maybe it just opened up in tone as it was only a couple months after I bought it. Also, it was at the time when I put some Mammoth Ivory Bridge pins on it.What caused what? Not sure but I am very happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members daklander Posted November 23, 2008 Members Share Posted November 23, 2008 Personally I think you screwed the pooch when you applied the silicone to the guitar. At the very least it's going to add to the work of anyone needing to repair or refinish the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Hudman Posted November 24, 2008 Members Share Posted November 24, 2008 Actually, the rubbing compound removed material. It is a common misconception that the compound sticks to the guitar. You rub it all off along with a bit of the poly finish. Your guitar should sound more open if it changed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brokepick Posted November 24, 2008 Members Share Posted November 24, 2008 Actually, the rubbing compound removed material. It is a common misconception that the compound sticks to the guitar. You rub it all off along with a bit of the poly finish. Your guitar should sound more open if it changed at all. Exactly! That's also true of polishes. Not the wax tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JaLester Posted November 24, 2008 Author Members Share Posted November 24, 2008 Thanks for all the input guys. I think I may have been a little paranoid when I first strung up my guitar after doing the procedure. I took my martin to a local mom and pop store yesterday and played it against several other new martin dreads, and it held up quite nicely. It didn't have the sound of the D-42, which was absolutely amazing, but it did have good volume and a wonderful deep tone compared to most of the standard and 16 series dreads that were available. Maybe the tone thing was all in my head and I freaked after I finished glossing the guitar thinking I must have done something wrong. However, I am still very glad I did it, because it honestly looks so much better than the satin finish and apparently the sound thing was all in my head. I actually felt like I had a new guitar at the music store, it just looked that much better. I will probably go do the same thing to the back and sides of my seagull, and sorry for the paranoia earlier this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stinky_seagull Posted November 24, 2008 Members Share Posted November 24, 2008 ah, well, we're happy as long as you're pleased with it. I'm still a little worried about the silicone in the wax, but that's probably the paranoia speaking. Please do let us know how the Seagull turns out if you do it; I've been thinking about glossing the back and sides of my mini jumbo as well but noticed that the finish seems to rise and fall with the grain of the mahogany laminate, so it looks like they didn't add filler first. I can't remember if the S6s are the same way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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