At what point in your guitar playing career...

[tbry]

I started piano lessons at age six. Didnt pick up the bass guitar till I was 15, but almost instantly, I sort of graviteted to thinking about chord progressions as numerical intervals and not so much the key of tyhe scale or progression. The key just told me where to start, and then it was all pretty much numbers from then on. It makes playing by ear 10000000 times easier and makes transposing easier too. I think the problem most people have with it, is that no one explains it in simple terms. It is just about one of the easiest comncepts in music, but it is one of the most commonly cluttered up and over explained concepts. It is pretty much as simple as remembering the words to the scale do, re, mi ,fa ,so la, ti do, replacing those words with numbers, do=I, Re=ii etc, and then assigning major or minor designations to the chords that are rooted in that number. so, if you want to play a song that is Emaj, A maj, BMaj, chord progression, all you have to do0 is remember 1maj 4maj 5 maj,. Pretty simple really. The cool thing about it is, that now when your whiney singer says you are playing the song too high a range for him, can you do it lower and someone suggests the key of Cmaj, you dont have to think about the actual notes. You just start on C and then just play the same old I-IV -V pattern you have seen a milliojn times, just starting on Cmaj. There really isnt much more too it than that. You hear a pattern in a song, or in your head that you have heard 1,000 times, and you will start to recognise the patterns as numbers, so listening to music becomes listening to numerical patterns(this doesnt take the joy out of listening to music, the music is still there, it just makes more sense) and that way, you hear a pattern in a song you would like to learn, you recognise it as, say, a I- ii minor- 4- 5, and now you have already learned and memorized the song without even being within a mile of a musical instrument. All you have to do now, is go home pich up the guitar and play that patteern, and you will have the rough elements of the song already. You can refine it then, if you would like to play the song in the actual original key, find out what that is, then all you need to know is the original root not, follow the pattern and you are on your way. Im out of time. Even I just didnt expplain it as easily as I could have, but If someone doeasnt clean up my mess by the time I get back, Ill edit it to make more sense. This concept is stupidly simple. When you figurte it out, it will be like a forehead slapping li8ghtbulb going off moment for you, and your WHOLE musical world will open up ten fold. You will never think about music the same way again, and you will never want to go back to not knowing.

 

 

No, that was a pretty clear explanation. I think it is simple once you know it,but daunting in the way any technical training of any kind can be. I still am learning but your explanation was as good as any.

[gthom]

I think it is simple once you know it,but daunting in the way any technical training of any kind can be. I still am learning but your explanation was as good as any.

 

 

I agree that music theory (at least basic theory, anyway) is pretty simple. I think the problem people have with theory is twofold: 1) it seems intimidating (like all technical training, as you note) to those who haven't learned it; and 2) many people have an almost mystical view of music whereby somehow you'll somehow be a 'more authentic' player if you don't get bogged down with all that technical mumbo jumbo.

 

As to the first issue - music theory is like math. Yes, there is complicated and intimidating math out there that scares the bejesus out of most normal people; but you don't start by learning calculus, you start by learning to count. And most of us never need much more than basic +,-,x,/ in our everyday lives (plus maybe a little algebra and geometry). Same with music theory - you learn your notes (counting), your scales (add, subtract), your chords (basic geometry) and a touch of modal/chord theory (algebra). If you want to get into the hardcore stuff, you can, but the basic stuff is pretty straightforward and day-to-day useful.

 

As for the second, well, that just goes with the territory.

[DrFunk123]

Bob Dylan taught me about it with the opening verse chords of "Like a Rolling Stone"


C Dm
Yeah, once upon a time you dressed so fine
Em F G
You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?

[Florida_Gator]

After i and ii, I skipped I, V, and XVII, and went straight to L, C, D, and M.

[philw44]

The music came before the theory

[Pine Apple Slim]

Played for 20 yrs or so before I came across the Nashville Number System, or a varient therof.
Major light bulb moment.

[seagullplayer77]

When I was in grade school, my music teacher touched on music theory every once in a while. Nothing too deep, but he covered the shape of scales, which notes in a scale would be major chords, which would be minor chords, that sort of thing. The only guitar teacher I ever had also brought some basic music theory to the table.

I don't often use that knowledge when I'm playing, though. If anything, it helps when transposing between keys and when writing songs. Knowing about I/IV/V gives you an idea of what chords you're "allowed" to choose from when playing in a specific key.

[Chordchunker]

When I was in grade school, my music teacher touched on music theory every once in a while. Nothing too deep, but he covered the shape of scales, which notes in a scale would be major chords, which would be minor chords, that sort of thing. The only guitar teacher I ever had also brought some basic music theory to the table. I don't often use that knowledge when I'm playing, though. If anything, it helps when transposing between keys and when writing songs. Knowing about I/IV/V gives you an idea of what chords you're "allowed" to choose from when playing in a specific key.

 

 

It helps when you play with others in being able to communicate the changes/keys. One of my pet peaves on stage is people yelling out "What Key?" What? C? G?... drives me crazy and looks very greenhornish.. Much easier to hold up fingers for the amount of flats in the measure = the key you are playing in..

[DrFunk123]

My biggest peeve is when people spend to much time setting up before a gig to the point of being pretentious. Saying "check" into the mic like 100 times and standing around acting all busy and self-important for a 30 minute set.

If you can't just get onstage and bring it in five minutes you look like a bunch of douschebaggues to me.

[Sangemon]

did you first learn about I ii iii IV V vii dim I? For me it came around 25 years into playing. Just unbelievable, yet true.

 

 

I've been playing since early 2008 and I'm just beginning to get into this with my teacher.

[Stackabones]

Much easier to hold up fingers for the amount of flats in the measure = the key you are playing in..

I know guys who do that in the jazz world, but it rarely happens on the porch or around the campfire. I think if you held up two fingers, then it would mean two more beers.

[george black]

OK I be the one to ask WHAT IS IT?

[Chordchunker]

I know guys who do that in the jazz world, but it rarely happens on the porch or around the campfire. I think if you held up two fingers, then it would mean two more beers.

 

I was referring to working bands who play on-stage but that was pretty funny... If you use the Nashille system it is even easier..1 for C, 2 for D etc..thumb down for flat thumb up for sharp..

 

For those asking what is it. It means I (1) is the actual key you are playing in. So if you are in the key of G, G is I, C is IV, D is V. The main thing to remember is there are no half steps between B and C or E and F..

[Scodiddly]

 

OK I be the one to ask WHAT IS IT?

 

 

It's how you can know (art being art, this rule isn't always true) which chords should be major and which minor, when you're playing in a particular key.

 

So let's say the key is C major. C is the first chord, or "one", or Roman numeral "I". D would be the next chord, "two", "II". Except that if you're in the key of C, the D chord would have to be minor. Why minor? Because if you're in C, you're playing the C major scale notes, same as the white keys on the piano. If you try to play a D chord on only the white keys it'll have to be a minor chord, because there's no F# key in the C major scale.

 

So, the Roman numerals with capital letters (I, IV, V) will be major chords. The Roman numerals with lower case letters (ii, iii, etc) will be minor chords.

 

Looking at it in the key of C and playing chords up the scale from C, we get

Cmaj Dmin Emin Fmaj Gmaj Amin Bmin* Cmaj (*yeah, the Bmin is a diminished, or "even more minor" due to only having the notes available from the Cmaj scale.

 

I put this all together after I learned the "fancy chords" version of Stormy Monday a long time ago - it goes even a little bit further by adding C#maj and D#maj to the progression.

[Do Fret It]

I think THAT is 3 chords and a soul right there.

[nylon rock]

Here's a little more on the background. I've posted this before but it's been a while. It's not the Nashville Numbering system, by the way, though they may be identical to each other. Credit for this goes to Poparad in the Music Theory section. When I first saw it I was blown away. What is really cool is that if you take traditional music staff paper, place the sharps in the key signature for the key you are in, then the triads are so easy to construct. The stacking of the notes is so simple that you realize why music staff paper is the way it is. This is all the music theory you need to get really good at guitar, to have really beautiful riffs with basic chords. Hope this helps some of you.

Eventually you'll get bored with this sweet music, and then you'll try to play outside the key a little to make things "your own." That's sort of where jazz goes.

One last point, this roman numeral thing, it shows how if you are playing just two chords, a I ii or a V vi, there are two scales that fit onto these two chords because the music won't know which is which. That is, is a I ii a I ii or is it a V vi. You'll be in over your head on this, so I'll stop here and let Poparad take over.

1) The Harmonized Scale -

Take a major scale, say, D major:

D E F# G A B C# D


A triad is built off of a scale degree, plus a note two degrees up, and another two degrees up from that.

For example, D F# A. That's the 1st, 3rd, and 5th degrees, to make D major (it's major because of the intervals between the notes). You can do that to each degree of that scale:

1 - D F# A - D major
2 - E G B - E minor
3 - F# A C# - F# minor
4 - G B D - G major
5 - A C# E - A major
6 - B D F# - B minor
7 - C# E G - C# diminished


No matter what key you are in, the first degree will be major, the second degree will be minor, the third will be minor, and so on.

These are the 7 chords of the key of D major. That's all of them, no more, no less. As long as you use just those chords to write a progression, you will be in the key of D major.

By memorizing that group of chords, you will always know what chords 'work' in the the key of D. Repeat this for the other 11 keys, and you will know what chords work in which keys.


Traditionally, the harmonized scale is notated with roman numerals. Upper case for major chords, lower case for minor, and lower case with a

[jamesp]

We're still getting to the theory part, right?

WRT improv, my new thing is to blow over looped turn-arounds, over and over. My theory is that if you can nail the end of a solo, no one will remember the clams that came before.

[brahmz118]

I learned chord theory years before I ever played the guitar. It didn't help with calluses, but it gave me some motivation to learn certain barre chords to play in keys like A and E.

[AgingPicker]

did you first learn about I ii iii IV V vii dim I? For me it came around 25 years into playing. Just unbelievable, yet true.

 

 

Are you just talking about the chords that always occur naturally in any given key? Or am I missing something here?

[Melodeous]

I try to blindly go where no man has gone before. Space, the final front ear.

I learn what I play.

[stormin1155]

I've been playin' for nigh 40 years, but never with those Nashville cats. I've only heard rumors that there was such a system. If it involves long division count me out.

[reallyslowhand]

Within the first year and half I learned that. I studied guitar theory on my own with 2 books. One was a book on all the guitar theory you would possibly need, the book was about 2" thick and had everything in it. The second book was on all types of chords, chord construction, all the positioning on the neck. Within that year and half I could solo to any style of music and play chords that most of my friends who had been playing guitar for many years could not do...understanding theory and how things work helped significantly, the best advice I could give is learn guitar theory because I believe in the long run it'll make you a much better guitarist/musician.

Hi guys. First post...

I second turcott above.

Let me offer you the perspective of someone that bought his first ever acoustic guitar exactly 6 weeks ago and cannot even play the F chord yet.

That would be me. To be honest, even my G chord has problems. Anyway...

The first three books I bought were (in this order): "Music Theory for Dummies", "First Steps in Music Theory" (an ABRSM book) and a Joe Satriani's "Surfing with the Alien" songbook (it looks Klingon to me at this point but can't a man dream?).

I'm finding music theory fascinating and, perhaps more importantly, it gives me structure: I have a good guess about what I'm trying to do and why (even though I can't). It makes understanding chord construction a lot easier, it highlights why key signatures are useful, it helps with harmonization, etc. And the funny looks I get on the tube while reading pages full of weird music notation are simply priceless...

I came across with all these names - tonic (I), mediant (iii), dominant (V), etc. - last week and it's the bit that has given me the most trouble so far as everything seems to come together (one has to know major and minor scales really well, I reckon). Haven't understood a perfect third of it but it does seem very useful.

Back to my spider exercises now... At least the calluses are growing!

[nylon rock]

Are you just talking about the chords that always occur naturally in any given key? Or am I missing something here?

 

 

Yes, for the most part the chords that occur naturally in any given key. Never knew that, stumbled around on it and would get by very well, but did not know how the chords were derived. A lot of songs I played may have been just a V and IV with an occasional I, and I never knew how the pros could improvise on the fly, effortlessly.

[C70man]

Playing with other guys in Florida...which means, way too late in my playing career.

[rpg51]

These are the 7 chords of the key of D major. That's all of them, no more, no less.

 

 

Well, that might be a little bit of an overstatement. There are 6th chords and 7th chords and 9th chords and Augmented chords and Suspended Chords as well, no?