Have you all ever used a Gmajor 7b 3rd chord,or any like them?

[KATMAN]

I'm sure they have their uses,but I never have. I took and old guitar chord book,Mel Bay's Encyclopedia of Guitar Chords and came across this one and others like it.I've been learning new ways of playing recently,I've started to learn how to use augmented and diminished chords.It's pretty cool and after playing for 30 years it's funny how you never stop learning.I used 6ths,and minor 6th's on occasion before,but when they start talking 11th's and 13th chords,I'm totally lost.Being self taught,I've always stuck with the basic chords and barre chords.Anybody ever use these chords? What's the most freguent unusual chords do you use ?

[Chordchunker]

Yes I play alot of extension chords, or 4 note chords. Adds color. #5`s (aug), Min7b5 (half diminished) minor 9ths, 11`s, Maj9, etc..

 

When I`m learning a tune I go through the chart (real book or something) and I stop and look up the chords I`m not familiar with. That way I learn them in a context and not just a random chord..

[blue2blue]

No really sure about that spelling... A G major has a major 3rd, pretty obviously. A G7 has a major third and a flatted 7.

 

My typical first reach chord reference is Eddie Sullivan's www.Chorderator.com (I also really like his 'chord designer' which is actually a sort of chord 'reverse lookup' -- mark the notes played on a guitar neck graphic and his web app analyzes the chord and displays all the derived spellings.)

[Jimmy Chaos]

I'm a big fan of 7ths, sus4 sus2 and maj7's.

[Stackabones]

No really sure about that spelling... A G major has a major 3rd, pretty obviously. A G7 has a major third and a flatted 7.

Gmajor7b 3rd is probably a really awkward way of saying G7#9. Online chord generators can spit this stuff out.

Yes, I use these kinds of chords all the time.

[blue2blue]

Ah, I get it. So, would you typically then play it with a major third low in the inversion and the sharp 2nd an octave above?

 

I used the audio chord-demo on Eddie (Boston) Sullivan's Chorderator page to sample the sounds of a bunch of the possible inversions and it sounded mighty trainwreck-y until you get the A# away from the B (to continue with a G based example).

 

http://www.chorderator.com/cgi-bin/generate.py?optionsDisp=no&readableTuning=Guitar+Standard&chordName=G7%239&tuning=EADGBE&capo=0&size=30

 

(a play icon 'appears' when you mouse over the lower right hand corner of the chord box)

[Stackabones]

Ah, I get it. So, would you typically then play it with a major third low in the inversion and the sharp 2nd an octave above?

That's the standard practice, but all kinds of things can happen. The second is almost always called a ninth. Most of the 7#9 voicings I use have the third and the sharp-nine just about an octave apart.

btw, the 7#9 is aka the Hendrix chord.

I really dislike most of the chords recommended on that page. They seem computer-generated, not player-generated. The best chord books I have are the ones that offer usable voicings for players and not theoretical possibilities.

[Terry Allan Hall]

Only for jazz/swing tunes.

[riovine]

I've usually seen a chord with a major 7th & a minor 3rd notated as a minMaj7

[Stackabones]

I've usually seen a chord with a major 7th & a minor 3rd notated as a minMaj7

That's more likely than what I suggested.

[LiFeStArTs@40]

You guys are speaking greek to this noob-hack. Just curious (I'm at work) if somebody could show a tab of this Gmag 7b 3rd and when you'd apply it.

[Stackabones]

You guys are speaking greek to this noob-hack. Just curious (I'm at work) if somebody could show a tab of this Gmag 7b 3rd and when you'd apply it.

Not Greek, but we are speaking Musician.

I'm gonna go with riovine's assessment of it being a Gmin(maj7). You'll see this often as the second chord in a minor line cliche. The minor chord is static for a while and some chords are substituted in to give it some movement. Usually the line runs Gm Gm(maj7) Gm7 Gm6.

xx5333 Gm
xx4333 Gm(maj7)
xx3333 Gm7
xx2333 Gm6

I usually use such stuff in My Funny Valentine, Blue Skies, and you'll notice how it sounds very much like Stairway To Heaven. It also pops up in Oye Como Va. StH & Oye are in Am, so start the line up two frets (..xx7555).

*

If we went with my earlier assessment of it being a 7#9 chord, then we'd just have to play Hendrix's Purple Haze to hear it (E7#9 ... 07678x). It also shows up in SRV's cover of Chitilins Con Carne -- I can't recall which key SRV plays it in, but I play it in Kenny Burrell's original key of C.

[blue2blue]

That's the standard practice, but all kinds of things can happen. The second is almost always called a ninth. Most of the 7#9 voicings I use have the third and the sharp-nine just about an octave apart. btw, the 7#9 is aka the Hendrix chord. I really dislike most of the chords recommended on that page. They seem computer-generated, not player-generated. The best chord books I have are the ones that offer usable voicings for players and not theoretical possibilities.

It's definitely computer generated. They're not recommendations, but rather precisely as you said: all the possibilities.

 

I actually prefer that because you see not just all those possibilities, but the layout of the chord across the neck. I often find it easier to go to the direct source than to have some would be music pedagogue picking and choosing what to tell me and what he thinks I can ignore. You don't really -- or I don't really -- get a big picture view that way.

[Chordchunker]

I've usually seen a chord with a major 7th & a minor 3rd notated as a minMaj7

 

 

Isn`t the melodic minor scale basically a minMaj7th?

[Stackabones]

It's definitely computer generated. They're not recommendations, but rather precisely as you said: all the possibilities. I actually prefer that because you see not just all those possibilities, but the layout of the chord across the neck. I often find it easier to go to the direct source than to have some would be music pedagogue picking and choosing what to tell me and what he thinks I can ignore. You don't really -- or I don't really -- get a big picture view that way.

I'd rather have would-be music pedagogue Joe Pass tell me which chords are cool than have a would-be music pedagogue computer-generated spreadsheet suggest the possibilities. Joe Pass is backed by ears and knowledge and experience, whereas the computer is backed by an algorithm. Joe Pass is a direct source, a computer is a database. Trusting an online chord generator with your chord possibilities is like trusting Joe Pass with your calculus problems. YMMV.

[LiFeStArTs@40]

Thanks Stack... sadly I've used that chord shape (yes in Stairway) and a couple of other tunes but didn't know what they where.

[Chordchunker]

GREAT book!

[blue2blue]

I'd rather have would-be music pedagogue Joe Pass tell me which chords are cool than have a would-be music pedagogue computer-generated spreadsheet suggest the possibilities. Joe Pass is backed by ears and knowledge and experience, whereas the computer is backed by an algorithm. Joe Pass is a direct source, a computer is a database. Trusting an online chord generator with your chord possibilities is like trusting Joe Pass with your calculus problems. YMMV.

A book? You have to rely on a book?

 

I saw Joe Pass play solo (and in trio) from about 5 or 6 feet away.

 

 

 

The point of the Chorderator is not that it's suggestions -- it's not. It's every chord fingering combination possible (or should be). And, of course, that includes the finger-busters. I can decide how I want to approach them and which makes sense for me in my practice.

 

It gives the musician all the information and trusts him to make use of it as he wishes. That's important to me, having struggled for far too long with far too little info or trying to deal with what some narrow-visioned music teacher type thinks is all I need.

 

I just think back to one of my first GFs who, at the time, was a college music major and had been taking music in high school as well as private instruction. I'd been playing guitar a year of so and we decided to try to jam. I said, play a progression in Am and she said, what do you mean? And I said, just play some chords in that key. And she said how do I know what chords are in that key?

 

At that point, I decided that a large part of the music pedagogy establishment had its head far up into the non-sunshiney regions.

 

 

That said, I'm sure that Joe has a lot of good insights and I'd like to take a look at that book one of these days.

 

But tools like the Chorderator are intended, it seems to me, for reference, not tutelage.

 

And looking at it from that angle, I should think it would be clear why I would prefer, to extend the analogy, to have an all-inclusive reference, to the extent possible, rather than one that some parochially minded, self-appointed expert has decided is 'all I need to know.' (Of course, I am not referring to the late Mr Pass, there. I think I could cut him a little extra slack. )

[Chordchunker]

A book? You have to rely on a book? I saw Joe Pass play solo (and in trio) from about 5 or 6 feet away.

Me too! Saw him in San Diego at a tiny little place. He died not much long afterward.

[Opa John]

I play all the open chords plus all the barred majors, minors, 7th's and 6th's and if I get any fancier than that my guitar playin' buddies just think I'm tryin' to show off. I get by with a little help from my friends!

I play folk, country, bluegrass and blues and all those fancy chords aren't needed for that kind of stuff.

[blue2blue]

I play a lot of DADGAD these days so I never really know what the hell I'm playing without doing the math. (That's where the sister service of the Chorderator comes in, letting you plug your fingering into various tunings and giving you a 'reverse lookup' of the spelling.)