Members Casey Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 We did some heavy preproduction before this album and recorded all of it. Do I have any type of case when the album is released and all the guitar parts I wrote are still on the songs? Most of what I wrote is lead and texture stuff, but significantly makes most if not all of the songs on the record. We are(were) a two-guitar band. What say ye before i shell out the big bucks for a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NeverTheMachine Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 We did some heavy preproduction before this album and recorded all of it.Do I have any type of case when the album is released and all the guitar parts I wrote are still on the songs? Most of what I wrote is lead and texture stuff, but significantly makes most if not all of the songs on the record. We are(were) a two-guitar band.What say ye before i shell out the big bucks for a lawyer. Oh boy .. I'll let some more qualified people comment on this one. Good luck! You obviously have a case, where it gets tricky is whether your guitar parts constitute songwriting credit, or not. Typically its melody and lyrics only, but I personally think getting a song completed is more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 21, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 21, 2011 Best advice I can give: let go and move on.If you are not a credited songwriter, then you can only go after them as far as using your work on the sound recording without permission...pretty weak as far as a legal case, really, IMH(and non-legally binding)O. They can always re-record the parts you played, they can alter them, etc. The burden of proof would likely be on you to prove they used your exact parts...can you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt?You really don't have much of a case unless they make a ton of money and used your recorded parts.Odds of that happening? Somewhere between slim and none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members A. Einstein Posted September 21, 2011 Members Share Posted September 21, 2011 Strictly by the law, only the melody and lyrics are protected. If you start to fight for getting shares for guitar parts, you may win a court case and get some shares, most often takes years, sometimes decades until such a case is settled. If you don't think it is a mega seller, then do as daddymack said, move on and make a mega seller, and next time settle the legals before you start producing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 "What say ye before i shell out the big bucks for a lawyer." Don't bother unless you just like to harass folks and don't mind paying beaucoup money for the privileged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlueStrat Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Einstein is correct on all counts. And really, unless it can be demonstrated that the band in question is going to make any money, I don't think you'd find a lawyer to even take the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Casey Posted September 22, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 Good points all around. All I'm thinking is having some sort of official type paper drawn up. I have the best proof one could possibly need. If no one takes the case now and they take off and continue making money through sales and live music that contains exact parts that I have written (this, I can prove beyond a doubt) maybe start the case then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 22, 2011 Members Share Posted September 22, 2011 If the band is recording your songs then they have to get a license from you since you own the copyright. If they are recording songs you co-wrote then they have all the right in the world but they music pay you your percentage. If you didn't write the songs and just created guitar parts and textures then you are {censored} out of luck because that is not considered Songwriting in this country. They can do what they want. If you want them to take your parts off the album and re-record them you have the right to ask them to do that but they are under no obligation since you were a member of the band at the time it was recorded. I would just be cool with them and move on an do your own thing. Tell em you'd like a copy of the album when it's done if your parts are on it, and wish em good luck!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PermaNoobie Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 Good points all around. All I'm thinking is having some sort of official type paper drawn up. I have the best proof one could possibly need. If no one takes the case now and they take off and continue making money through sales and live music that contains exact parts that I have written (this, I can prove beyond a doubt) maybe start the case then? Like sven was talking about (and people miss this) is there a thing called "joint authorship doctrine" - basically, if you write something with other people and it was intended as a unified whole (like if you write a piece of music together rather than, say, you wrote a poem and someone put it to music) then you are "joint authors"...each joint author has "undivided interest" in the work...they will have to pay you a cut, but you can't stop them from using it. One thing you might want to watch out for in terms of "sitting" on the claim to see if $ rolls in is something known as "laches" that could kick in (depending on how the facts lay out) which basically means "he didn't exercise a claim to his rights to the detriment of other people - and now he's sniping" - not saying it WILL kick in, just something to watch out for Also, the absolute best proof of authorship is...the other party agreeing that you were author! Just don't overestimate the strength of your position - it's easy to do and you are an "interested party" (you are emotionally attached to the case swinging one way) - that's why they say "a lawyer who represents himself has a fool for a client" there are these organizations usually called something like "lawyers for the arts" or similar that are basically lawyers who volunteer some time to help out artists in cases where the legal costs are prohibitive (basically a type of pro bono work). So you could maybe chat with a lawyer about it. But I think in general, like the other guys, there probably isn't huge risk...sounds like it was maybe a falling out? maybe like sven was talking about, it could be a way to mend some bridges - approach is cooperatively if you can. always better than making it a war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2011 No, guys, he knows he is not the author of the songs, he added his guitar parts to it, but he feels the parts 'make the songs'...again, gonna be a lot of noise about nuffin', IMHO, since 99.999% of bands don't sell enough to make them worth suing. I think there is a bit of bad feeling between you and the band over your departure, and frankly, that is never a good reason to consider a lawsuit. Seriously, Casey, start a new band, write better songs, 'beat' them that way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shredzorz Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yeah, I would only be concerned if the band was making a substantial amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jhonden Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 For all your previous recording as a band you cannot have the rights of taking copyrights as it was mutually created. You both can share the rights for all the earlier recordings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 No, guys, he knows he is not the author of the songs, he added his guitar parts to it, but he feels the parts 'make the songs'...again, gonna be a lot of noise about nuffin', IMHO, since 99.999% of bands don't sell enough to make them worth suing. I think there is a bit of bad feeling between you and the band over your departure, and frankly, that is never a good reason to consider a lawsuit. Seriously, Casey, start a new band, write better songs, 'beat' them that way.... Totally. I get it and I do not blame him for that but the fact of the matter is in regard to Copyright laws in the US, guitar parts don't constitute songwriting. It's ONLY melody and lyrics. PERIOD. Any other orchestrations and arrangements are work for hire situations. Any lawsuit he would bring would be thrown out of court and a waste of time. Now, if this were Europe, that would be another story as the organist for Procol Harem sued for and said the organ part he made for Whiter Shade of Pale was signature and essentially made the song. He was successful but they have entirely different copyright laws over there and everyone gets paid royalties from the band members, the artist who cuts the song, besides the songwriter. Friggin Socialism at it's finest..Par for the course over there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2011 For all your previous recording as a band you cannot have the rights of taking copyrights as it was mutually created. You both can share the rights for all the earlier recordings. did you read the OP, or are you just trying to build post count spouting off with pointless nonsense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2011 Totally. I get it and I do not blame him for that but the fact of the matter is in regard to Copyright laws in the US, guitar parts don't constitute songwriting. It's ONLY melody and lyrics. PERIOD. Any other orchestrations and arrangements are work for hire situations. Any lawsuit he would bring would be thrown out of court and a waste of time. Now, if this were Europe, that would be another story as the organist for Procol Harem sued for and said the organ part he made for Whiter Shade of Pale was signature and essentially made the song. He was successful but they have entirely different copyright laws over there and everyone gets paid royalties from the band members, the artist who cuts the song, besides the songwriter. Friggin Socialism at it's finest..Par for the course over there He might have a remote shot over a SR copyright filing, but again, a moot point if there isn't any $ flowing. This all sounds like a case of butthurt, IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes, as daddymack mentioned, you should be compensated for your guitar work if he's releasing the SR. However, normally you would be paid upfront as a studio musician. You would think the person releasing the CD would want all musicians involved to sign a release form. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 Yes, as daddymack mentioned, you should be compensated for your guitar work if he's releasing the SR. However, normally you would be paid upfront as a studio musician. You would think the person releasing the CD would want all musicians involved to sign a release form. John Compensated for his work how? He was in the band so there was no salary while he was recording the parts. Does he receive a statutory rate on the CD's because he's on the SR? He was not a studio musician in this case. He was a band member. Because he quit the band, does he revert back to studio musician status if they release the CD and if so, what could he claim they owe him?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 23, 2011 Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2011 well, as I look at the details, this gets weirder...if they use his actual parts he actually played, that is one thing, but if someone (like the other guitarist) 'ghosts' his identical parts, he really won't have much $ to chase except as 'arranger', and that is really thin...so, I'm back to 'let it go, move on start a new project...' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted September 23, 2011 Members Share Posted September 23, 2011 Compensated for his work how? He was in the band so there was no salary while he was recording the parts. Does he receive a statutory rate on the CD's because he's on the SR? He was not a studio musician in this case. He was a band member. Because he quit the band, does he revert back to studio musician status if they release the CD and if so, what could he claim they owe him?' I would consider him now at "studio musician status". I certainly wouldn't release a CD without getting clearance from all the musicians and having them sign a release. Wondering if the current band members are getting a cut? He should get an equal cut or at the very least be given a couple hundred upfront. John:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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