Members 3shiftgtr Posted June 7, 2011 Members Share Posted June 7, 2011 ....currently in direct (multi level) marketing. No {censored}. 2 heads of 2 different companies that are (conservatively) 2 of the top 5 song pitchers in town, are making more money in direct marketing than in their career making songs platinum. The guy who opened the office of the biggest Nash label in the past decade, makes more money in direct marketing. Why? The residuals are better selling opportunity than selling songs. Not a hack AT ALL on multi level marketing, which is a legitimate way to earn a living. It is just reflective of how bad things are. We are talking the biggest players in town..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 8, 2011 Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 There isn't a lot of cash in pitching bro. Not a lot in songwriting either unless you have a hit. As far as the paradigm based on selling a disk, yes that has dropped a lot. It's going to the cloud/subscription. The record industry doesn't want to move forward. It's going to have to all crumble, most of these people will lose their lobs, then young, forward thinking people will come in with a new model, figure out how to make money in the new Music Industry and there ya go. This is GOING to happen. Watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 I've been watching...and waiting...so far, no good news... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 8, 2011 Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 The selling of Discs of music is in decline as a business model. Radio is diminishing in importance. Labels refuse to accept this. They are dying. Music will live on and the business will change. Artists will figure out a way to get paid for their work. This is a transition period and this will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted June 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 Artists will figure out a way to get paid for their work. This is a transition period and this will happen. Not so sure. The first printing press was the first mass media. But when electronic media entered human life in the 1900's the media STAR concept was born. Before that musicians got paid to perform, for published written music and that was it. We are now seeing a "collective conscious" where music is concerned. All music is available at all times, and most of the time it is for free (be it stolen or whatever). And now that all recorded media is violable, it ain't gonna get any better. And the song pitching thing is a pretty good money maker. This person I spoke with recently got 2 million to pitch and promote 3 Taylor Swift songs. She pitched and promoted 15 top 10 singles last year, along with a bunch of other stuff. You do the math. This person gets a percentage. In the 90's it was normal to spend 1/2 to 3/4 of a million to push a song to the chart, and you had MULTIPLE multi platinum artist- Garth, Reba, Shania, Alan Jackson, Tritt, Gill, Yokam, Brooks & Dunn ALL sold 3 to 15 million every time out. Garth and Shania were on the big end with Gill etc on the low end. Each having two or three songs per disc being worked. Now NOBODY spends that kind of money cuz sales ain't there no matter how much money you spend. I mean, they are doing backflips cuz their #1 artist in Nash is Swift, sold a whopping 4 million. It ain't getting any better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 8, 2011 Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 Not so sure. The first printing press was the first mass media. But when electronic media entered human life in the 1900's the media STAR concept was born. Before that musicians got paid to perform, for published written music and that was it. We are now seeing a "collective conscious" where music is concerned. All music is available at all times, and most of the time it is for free (be it stolen or whatever). And now that all recorded media is violable, it ain't gonna get any better.And the song pitching thing is a pretty good money maker. This person I spoke with recently got 2 million to pitch and promote 3 Taylor Swift songs. She pitched and promoted 15 top 10 singles last year, along with a bunch of other stuff. You do the math. This person gets a percentage. In the 90's it was normal to spend 1/2 to 3/4 of a million to push a song to the chart, and you had MULTIPLE multi platinum artist- Garth, Reba, Shania, Alan Jackson, Tritt, Gill, Yokam, Brooks & Dunn ALL sold 3 to 15 million every time out. Garth and Shania were on the big end with Gill etc on the low end. Each having two or three songs per disc being worked. Now NOBODY spends that kind of money cuz sales ain't there no matter how much money you spend.I mean, they are doing backflips cuz their #1 artist in Nash is Swift, sold a whopping 4 million. It ain't getting any better.... No way man..a top 5 song makes a million dollars. No way a publisher is going to pay someone anywhere near that to pitch tunes. The person you talked to is flat out lying. The figures are well known around here man..Seriously... Yea...Again..the disconnect. I will say it again..The Music businesses current model of selling discs, and making mechanicals (publishing company) from radio airplay (primarily) among other licensing is dying. So of course the sky is falling for these suits. For musicians life will go on...Look..I have friends with multiple number one hits and my publisher had a number one hit this year with Blake Shelton. My figures are accurate. A Song plugger no matter WHO HE/SHE IS doesn't make 1/10th that 2Mill you quoted. So I will agree with you..for the biz types, Their paradigm is dying. Oh well...Failure to keep up with changing times, technology and what the consumer wants has put them in the pickle they are in. I can assure you musicians and songwriters aren't going to sit around crying or just give our stuff away for free. New hipper suits will come in and reorganize this business. This happens time and again throughout history in all facets of business and industry. It's currently happening now in the music business. The suits and record companies currently make way too much of the money anyway (typical record deal is a 90/10 split with all the costs of marketing, recording, promotion, recoupable out of your 10%!!!) plus is indentured servitude...I'm glad it's fading and falling and I'm a songwriter with a publishing deal in this town. At this time the only way you can make money is to have a hit..A cut doesn't make {censored}.....I know the person who has the number one country song on the charts right now. This song will make a Million in the next year. Here's the breakdown..The publisher takes 50% of publishing and 3 songwriters split the other 50%. Then for he songwriter's share 3 writers split it. This person will be lucky to make $250K from it...Conversely, the artist who plays this song walks on stage and in 2 nights makes that amount of money!!!...These songwriters have to wait up to a year for their money from BMI/ASCAP/SESAC as well!!! This biz is due for a reset and it's going to be better for the creators of content. Many of us are empowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted June 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 No way man..a top 5 song makes a million dollars. No way a publisher is going to pay someone anywhere near that to pitch tunes. The person you talked to is flat out lying. The figures are well known around here man..Seriously...Yea...Again..the disconnect. I will say it again..The Music businesses current model of selling discs, and making mechanicals (publishing company) from radio airplay (primarily) among other licensing is dying. So of course the sky is falling for these suits. For musicians life will go on...Look..I have friends with multiple number one hits and my publisher had a number one hit this year with Blake Shelton. My figures are accurate. A Song plugger no matter WHO HE/SHE IS doesn't make 1/10th that 2Mill you quoted. So I will agree with you..for the biz types, Their paradigm is dying. Oh well...Failure to keep up with changing times, technology and what the consumer wants has put them in the pickle they are in. I can assure you musicians and songwriters aren't going to sit around crying or just give our stuff away for free. New hipper suits will come in and reorganize this business. This happens time and again throughout history in all facets of business and industry. It's currently happening now in the music business. The suits and record companies currently make way too much of the money anyway (typical record deal is a 90/10 split with all the costs of marketing, recording, promotion, recoupable out of your 10%!!!) plus is indentured servitude...I'm glad it's fading and falling and I'm a songwriter with a publishing deal in this town. At this time the only way you can make money is to have a hit..A cut doesn't make {censored}.....I know the person who has the number one country song on the charts right now. This song will make a Million in the next year. Here's the breakdown..The publisher takes 50% of publishing and 3 songwriters split the other 50%. Then for he songwriter's share 3 writers split it. This person will be lucky to make $250K from it...Conversely, the artist who plays this song walks on stage and in 2 nights makes that amount of money!!!...These songwriters have to wait up to a year for their money from BMI/ASCAP/SESAC as well!!! This biz is due for a reset and it's going to be better for the creators of content. Many of us are empowered. Didn't say that is how much they got paid personally, I said that is what their company got paid to promote (invest). And they didn't just get that money from the publishers. Money to sell songs to the public comes from multiple sources. Label, publisher, artist's promo company and more. But then you know that....it's part of the new model. And as far as this new model, are you waiting? Is it the you are waiting for smarter people than you? It is not a no hope situation, it is a reality situation....things aren't going to change. Musically there is a collective conscious going on: everything is free and available....all the time. And until content becomes inviolable, that WILL NOT change. And digital content cannot become inviolable. Or at least it won't any time soon. So what does that mean for you? You gonna wait for someone else to figure it out? Yes, the current model is morphing as it is dying. And there is nothing on the horizon to take its place. You can hope for water in the desert, but...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted June 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 And the song pitching thing is a pretty good money maker. This person I spoke with recently got 2 million to pitch and promote 3 Taylor Swift songs. She pitched and promoted 15 top 10 singles last year, along with a bunch of other stuff. You do the math. This person gets a percentage. In the 90's it was normal to spend 1/2 to 3/4 of a million to push a song to the chart, and you had MULTIPLE multi platinum artist- Garth, Reba, Shania, Alan Jackson, Tritt, Gill, Yokam, Brooks & Dunn ALL sold 3 to 15 million every time out. Garth and Shania were on the big end with Gill etc on the low end. Each having two or three songs per disc being worked. Now NOBODY spends that kind of money cuz sales ain't there no matter how much money you spend.I mean, they are doing backflips cuz their #1 artist in Nash is Swift, sold a whopping 4 million. It ain't getting any better.... Actually, the pitching itself isn't that big a money maker, but the whole enchilada, pitch, promote, publicize and peddle...the 4 P's, if you will, do add up to serious $ though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 8, 2011 Members Share Posted June 8, 2011 Didn't say that is how much they got paid personally, I said that is what their company got paid to promote (invest). And they didn't just get that money from the publishers. Money to sell songs to the public comes from multiple sources. Label, publisher, artist's promo company and more. But then you know that....it's part of the new model.And as far as this new model, are you waiting? Is it the you are waiting for smarter people than you? It is not a no hope situation, it is a reality situation....things aren't going to change. Musically there is a collective conscious going on: everything is free and available....all the time. And until content becomes inviolable, that WILL NOT change. And digital content cannot become inviolable. Or at least it won't any time soon.So what does that mean for you? You gonna wait for someone else to figure it out? Yes, the current model is morphing as it is dying. And there is nothing on the horizon to take its place. You can hope for water in the desert, but...... I'm not waiting for {censored}. I'm writing, producing, recording and performing...What an ARTIST is supposed to do. There are plenty of music business people who do that...Business..I'm staying up on trends and trying to create the best content I can. That's all I can do. Getting paid now trying to position myself for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted June 9, 2011 Author Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm not waiting for {censored}. I'm writing, producing, recording and performing...What an ARTIST is supposed to do. There are plenty of music business people who do that...Business..I'm staying up on trends and trying to create the best content I can. That's all I can do. Getting paid now trying to position myself for the future. Yeah...me too. Writing, producing, gigging, teaching, and all the other stuff. Like a hamster on a treadmill. I just am not so bullish on the future. And I'm not bearish either cuz we are not in an economic downturn, it's is a paradigm shift. So whatever your making now, unless you are Ga Ga et al, be prepared to struggle to make that or less 25 years from now. Even if you have a million you tube hits and a million downloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 Yea man, I hear ya but I disagree. They will figure out how to make money. It's about direct to fan now and will continue to be. Pro artists and songwriters aren't going to do this for free and you know that! People will get sick of all the hack {censored} out there if the pros stopped making music. You know that too. Anyway, just continue moving forward and it will work itself out. The only entities who are toast are the labels. They will eventually end up being artists service shops but their time of making all the money and artist getting screwed is over. I think the time of manufactured plastic artists is over as well. If you're talented and have something to so the future looks bright. I don't see Rock Stars of yore, type fortunes to be made but hell, I certainly see the ability to make a nice comfortable income from my music as I always have. No reason why that can't continue. I'm optomistic for artists and songwriters. Studio guys, label people and general biz types, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm still waiting... I don't see majors die out completely, they will morph into something else. They still have the power to create something people need (young people) : 15 minutes fame superstars. Musical talent isn't required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sventvkg Posted June 9, 2011 Members Share Posted June 9, 2011 I'm still waiting... I don't see majors die out completely, they will morph into something else. They still have the power to create something people need (young people) : 15 minutes fame superstars. Musical talent isn't required. Oh yea, majors have always been good at the pop idiol type stuff and suspect they will continue to put it out. Big labels can morph into more of a one stop service type outfit for artists but not for 98% of the profit like they've traditionally operated. Surely they must know this and be thinking ahead right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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