Members Poker99 Posted April 25, 2011 Members Share Posted April 25, 2011 http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/stories/042211spins In Terms of Songwriter Royalties, 250,000 YouTube Plays = $8... presnikoffFriday, April 22, 2011So says David Renzer, chairman & CEO of Universal Music Group Publishing, who shared the stat at a recent publishing forum (we just got our hands on the recording). "For every 250,000 streams on YouTube, that is the equivalent of one credit of ASCAP performing rights value," Renzer relayed. "One credit is less than $8, it's about $7.60." The forum was held by the Association of Independent Music Publishers (AIMP) in Los Angeles earlier this year. Renzer aptly described the ratio as "depressing," though he also noted that YouTube has secured proper licenses with performance rights organizations. "You do that math and it's pretty depressing, but that's the world we live in today, and it's causing a lot of consternation and a lot of discussion amongst the industry," Renzer relayed.Part of the problem, according to Rezner, is that the PROs are required to license services under various consent decrees - not from scratch like the recording side. There are negotiations, interim rates and court proceedings, but ultimately "it's not a lot of money" according to Renzer. Simply stated, publishers are just making a lot less from streaming formats. Beyond YouTube, streaming payouts are paltry for publishers, and recent filings from Pandora prove the point. But the irony of the discussion is that master recording owners get nothing from traditional radio - at least in the US - all part of a very imbalanced and byzantine royalty world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 3shiftgtr Posted April 25, 2011 Members Share Posted April 25, 2011 "You do that math and it's pretty depressing, but that's the world we live in today, and it's causing a lot of consternation and a lot of discussion amongst the industry," Renzer relayed. Yeah, Really? Consternation huh? I recently met 2 song pitchers in Nashville who are making more money in multi level marketing. I asked one why the switch and she said: "I have to." she said. "The business (pitching songs) I have loved for so long ain't payin' {censored} these days." And she was making a mint. Had to sell her house......they don't have confusion or anxietey, they are leaving in exodus..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 25, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 25, 2011 so, lets see...one play on youtube then = $.0000304 why, at that rate we could all be hundredaires in a few years...okay, this restates the concept that youtube should be viewed more as a promotional outlet rather than an income stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted April 25, 2011 Members Share Posted April 25, 2011 Yup. I'm working on a humorous song right now, and me and my kids will record it and make an animated video to go with it. I'm seriously thinking about putting the song on iTunes first, then putting the song on YouTube with info that it's available on iTunes. We're not doing it for money, but rather for something fun for me and the kids to do. But it would be nice to make a couple of bucks from it via iTunes. YouTube is where I've fallen down, myself. I don't have practically anything up there, and I need to. Too many things to spend my time on. Like watching House reruns. Or Star Trek reruns. Or hanging out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 26, 2011 Or Star Trek reruns. Or hanging out here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members richardmac Posted April 26, 2011 Members Share Posted April 26, 2011 Awesome! Did you ever see the Beavis and Butthead episode where they're on the Enterprise? Butthead says to Beavis, "Number one, I order you to take a number two." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flatfinger Posted April 26, 2011 Members Share Posted April 26, 2011 I see your double face palm and raise you one implied facepalm!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BlackBelt Posted April 26, 2011 Members Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yeah, it's a bummer but I don't do this for money anymore. There simply isn't any. On the plus side, I don't do this for money anymore, so I don't worry about pleasing "the man" with my work.I just write and play whatever I feel. What are they going to do? Lower my pay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted April 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2011 BUt I wonder... If those are the real numbers, then why do labels take the time to put ads on their videos? Its more of an annoyance than anything else, and it doesn't pay? Something's fishy... Someone's got to make money somehow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Westorbust7 Posted April 26, 2011 Members Share Posted April 26, 2011 BUt I wonder... If those are the real numbers, then why do labels take the time to put ads on their videos? Its more of an annoyance than anything else, and it doesn't pay?Something's fishy... Someone's got to make money somehow... Ditto. There's monetization there and somebody making it. There's more to that story, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 26, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 26, 2011 the question isn't whether there is money, but where is it going. Obviously not to the artists. So that only leaves...youtube and the labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Poker99 Posted April 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted April 27, 2011 the question isn't whether there is money, but where is it going. Obviously not to the artists. So that only leaves...youtube and the labels. If the money goes to the labels, it would be easy to know. I'm sure there are artists right here that are direct partners with youtube (that are not signed to a label). They could tell us how much they make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Johnny-Boy Posted April 27, 2011 Members Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hypothetical... Let's say ASCAP changed the rate to $8 for 10 plays. Then I'd be playing my youtube video all day long (and have my friends do the same). Until there's a way to calculate legitimate plays, better to keep the rate low and from fraudulent inflating. Or am I off my rocker? John:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dingoist Posted April 27, 2011 Members Share Posted April 27, 2011 What is not counted are the ads. I went to youtube, typed in an artists name, went to their vevo page. There was an ad for vevo in the top right for their ipad app which is free to download (not having an ipad I can't say to the secondary costs, such as downloading a video). On page reload, it turned into an artist advertisement ("Available on iTunes"), and since google tracks your usage, the ads become more and more targeted to you as a consumer (and I go from artist to artist, the ads get more targeted to the style of music I'm clicking on). Then hit play, there was an artist promotional advert of something like 21st Century Girl promoting buying their songs from iTunes... and then of course, in the video itself there's most likely product placement and branding happening. Ad revenue, and cross promotion is what is bringing the money. Not the number of hits. Did they happen to mention the revenue potential of targeted advertising? I'm also fairly sure, most artists won't see any of this money in their pocket (maybe except for a portion of the product placements in the video itself). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted April 27, 2011 Moderators Share Posted April 27, 2011 Hypothetical...Let's say ASCAP changed the rate to $8 for 10 plays. Then I'd be playing my youtube video all day long (and have my friends do the same). Until there's a way to calculate legitimate plays, better to keep the rate low and from fraudulent inflating.Or am I off my rocker?John:cool: There are a lot of factors, such as number of licenses, outlets, etc., that will determine what each play/where is valued (credits). From the ASCAP website regarding distribution of royalties: "Monies to writers and publishers are paid out in separate distributions covering the same performance periods. The dollar value of a performance credit is determined annually, taking into account the estimated total number of ASCAP credits being processed for writers or publishers and the total number of dollars available for distribution. A writer's or publisher's royalty check is determined by multiplying the number of credits they earned for performances of their works during a quarter by the dollar value of a credit for that quarter. For example, if a writer earned 10,000 credits for performances of her works on radio and television in a three-month period and the value of one writer credit was $7.75,the writer's royalty check would be $77,500 (10,000 X $7.75)." http://www.ascap.com/members/payment/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BuildingCastles Posted May 4, 2011 Members Share Posted May 4, 2011 It seems to me that if record labels want to keep attracting song writers that are not also performing musicians, they're going to have to start giving them a percentage of the ad revenue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted May 4, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 4, 2011 the songwriters are making royalties and/or license fees on their material being used in the advertisements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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