WHEN IS IT TIME TO QUIT?

[O.O.T.A. SPEAKS]

When is it time to step back and throw in the towel?

 

Im 25. Live in Louisiana with my parents and have barely any money of my own. I have what I think to be a good voice but Ive been struggling to be successful for a few years since I became serious about it at 18. I do not consider success having a g6 and millions.. just enough to afford a comfortable lifestyle. I spend every single day stressing on how to move my current music project to the next level. Every day I get massive anxiety wondering if I need to give up and enjoy my younger years while I still have the chance. My parents are pissed cause I half assed school and my girlfriend (who is a sweet heart and very patient) I know she wishes I spent more time just living and enjoying/spending time with her. I could quit all this band stuff and get a real job on a movie set in an instant.

 

I am not a pop singer although I could easily transform myself into one for the money. I like real music with real meaning.. doesn't matter what genre it is. Ive been in indie style bands, rock, hardcore. I even do hooks for hip hop if someone throws it my way.

 

Is this industry worth all the stress and struggle anymore?

 

I'm attaching my bands last video to show you guys what I'm working with. Haters can call it a shameless plug but I'm really looking for some experienced advice here.

If only there was a big hand book that you were born with that told you the right track to be on.. I'm hoping to hear what you guys think the right track would be.

 

[video=youtube;XORVqpGTmyM]

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Your band has a future in Asia.

 

 

That's the '{censored}' the kidos like there.

[AVisme]

The right track is to stick it out for at least another 5 years. 25 is way too young to throw in the towel. A lot of the "new" bands have been around for 10 or more years, grinding it out before they got noticed.

 

Girlfriend? If you are successful, a relationship is going to be real hard to maintain, if not impossible. I wouldn't worry too much about what she wants, because women come and go. You're way too young to be thinking about marriage IMO.

 

As for your parents, you have to live life for you. You can always go back to school or get a full time job in a few years. A real shot at attaining your dream has a finite window, and you should fight for it while you can.

 

As for the music, I like very little metalcore. In fact, I hate most of it. But you guys are pretty good. I could see you making it. There are definite flashes of brilliance there.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

 

The right track is to stick it out for at least another 5 years. 25 is way too young to throw in the towel.

 

 

 

Don't think so... 25 is already too old.

 

If he would be 12-16, that would just the right age to start a career with this style music. And his attitude isn't the best anyway, and then I watched this video, and knew it isn't anything to take serious, however I don't know how the A&R would react to that video, he might think it's funny;

 

 

 

[video=youtube;FVbn7PImkP0]

[AVisme]

 

Don't think so... 25 is already too old. If he would be 12-16, that would just the right age to start a career with this style music.

The dudes in Killswitch Engage are in their 30s and 40s.

 

 

And his attitude isn't the best anyway, and then I watched this video, and knew it isn't anything to take serious, however I don't know how the A&R would react to that video, he might think it's funny

I don't know about all that. Honestly, I don't want to take the time to watch a 10 minute video. But going by the music video, these guys have a lot of potential and it would be a shame if they didn't take it further.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

I don't spend more then 20 seconds to listen or watch, except it starts good, then I may continue to the end.

 

Many things are possible. I am only one of many executives, and each one has his own preferences business wise, thinks slightly different what can be sold, and what not.

[sventvkg]

I think you guys are badass and no {censored}ing way would I quit. This is the type of stuff where you need to tour. Get in a van and tour.. Do a Kickstarter campaign to raise money for touring and I would check out Europe as well. I hear this type of stuff playing EVERYWHERE in Norther EU/Scandinavia....You voice is way cool and high as hell too. Good luck and Don't quit music!! I would think for your type of stuff you'd need to be on the road alot.

[mikedavid00]

I used to listen to the World Of Warcraft podcasts from Europe. I know there is a big scene for this type of music.

 

THAT BEING SAID,

 

I think that you have big label potential. The biggest problem I see with you is your genre and songs.

 

-If you are playing a 'small' genre, you will stay small (with very, very few exceptions like No Doubt.. but lets not harp on exceptions).

 

-You are sellable. You do a great job. But the audience need good songs. There is a song called 'come on eilene' that I think would suit your style. Make a rock remake out of it. That's a good start.

 

A user here sventvkg is a pro song writer and knows all about song writing and the huge impact it has.

 

I come from the train of thought, that the 'connection' with the artist to audience is the most important with looks, youth, performance. That is the HARDEST thing for a band to have. I place songs a close second as they can be purchased etc. You GOT IT. That hardest thing. You just need songs and genre. sventvkg can help with info I'm sure if he hasn't already.

 

I'm almost sure you will 'connect' with your audience no matter where you go. I'm telling you though you need some covers of your own and for your songs to be a bit more mainstream. Check out 'come on eilene' on Youtube and remix it to fit you. Tour with some of those covers. Put your own edge on it.

 

Also stay off the pills if your taking them. They'll cause you anxiety and gloom for days after you take them. The 2 hour high is mild and isn't worth the days of gloom and anxiety. I really don't recommend drugs at this time of your career as it will cloud your direction and decision making. Try to stick with only alcohol.

[richardmac]

Nobody here can tell you what to do. My own recommendation would be to wake the f*ck up and see how miserable you are making yourself. You love music but you're killing your desire to do it by putting "life and death" pressure on yourself. And it's making you miserable and you're going to end up hating what you started out loving. If you don't get out now, will you regret it when you're older? The odds say yes. You can write, record, and perform music without having it kill you and make you miserable. We call this radical concept a "day job." If you find one you enjoy, you can improve the quality of your life and everything will get better.

 

See, no one can tell you what to do.

 

I'd have a lot more sympathy if you guys actually sang songs instead of just shouting and growling angry lyrics. mikedavid00 is right - that genre is not the place to be for success. Get some damn melodies at least. You have talented musicians in the band but that crap is outdated. Develop a brand new sound that is more radio and average music listener friendly.

 

Or you could just ignore me - I am totally biased against that style of music because the vocals are {censored}. Cookie Monster indeed. That crap was huge here in Tampa for a long time and now it's pretty much dead and gone. It just doesn't know it... The corpse is still standing around and talking but no one is listening. I love the energy. But I've already forgotten the melody of that video track.

 

Because there wasn't one.

 

Please don't let music make you so stressed out and miserable. I've BEEN you. Or pretty close to it. I was anxious, depressed, and miserable too. You can love music again by not taking it so seriously.

[BlueStrat]

 

I do not consider success having a g6 and millions.. just enough to afford a comfortable lifestyle.

 

 

Sadly, even a comfortable lifestyle is almost impossible to get from the music business these days. Even guys in lower to mid tier national touring acts are working part time jobs or doing side gigs. And that's just to make enough money to survive on. If you're going to go all in on music, you'd better be willing to do whatever it takes- sleeping in cars or vans, eating Top Ramen every day, never owning a home or a new car or having a family-whatever-and accept the fact that you might not ever do any better financially than that. It has to not matter.

 

My own instincts tell me, based on what you're posting, is that you're already checking out. Something in you is telling you this might not be for you. Which is normal; the fact is, it's not for 99% of guys who start playing music. Almost everyone starts with the dream, and almost no one sees it come true. There's no shame in it. But only you can decide if you're willing to sacrifice what a career in performing music means. I was a full timer years ago. It cost me two marriages, a bout with alcoholism, a couple of cars, etc. But I also had some of the best times of my life. However, that was back when a guy could play 6 nights a week and make the equivalent of 1200 dollars a week in today's money. Those days are long gone. Touring is more expensive and pays less than ever before, and you're competing with guys who will give everything away just to get noticed. The music business I grew up in is a different today as the moon is from chocolate pudding. I could go on about how I stayed with it for too long and now I'm paying for it. But honestly, as much as I regret it now sometimes, I don't know that I'd have changed anything. The prospect of having your talent take you somewhere is a powerful drug that is hard to let go of.

 

In the motorcycle world, there are what are called "1%ers" - guys who completely commit to living the outlaw biker life. Musicians who go all in are like that, too, basically "1%ers". If you aren't that, maybe it's time to think about a future where music is an outlet and a satisfying part time endeavor but not your main gig.

 

 

You can always go back to school or get a full time job in a few years.

 

 

I've heard this at least a hundred times, and I've said it myself, but the reality is, after age 30, it's very hard to go back to school. Not impossible, but hard. By then, you might very well have obligations- a relationship, a car payment, whatever- and you find yourself not being able to afford it. That's what happened to me, and lot of other guys I know too.

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

The first question who came to my mind was: "Can this guys really play live like as in the video, or was it done by editing?" But when I saw what sleeping bags they are in the other video, I had to assume, it was edited.

 

However if this band cut the cake like that live, then there most be something terribly wrong somewhere else in their biz.

[PermaNoobie]

what's a G6?

[PermaNoobie]

 

a g6 is a private jet

 

 

oh, just looked it up - a Gulfstream

 

looks like new-school hip hop speak?

 

like "Chrissy" for Cristal and all that.

 

eh, to me they are still just Gulfstreams

[mmmiddle]

I'm 30 and I'm thinking about quitting now. After building a local following, releasing a record and taking orders shipping it around the world, then appearing in Substream and Alternative Press, my band still can't do anything more because we still couldn't break even and no labels or anything ever took an interest.

 

Your video kicks major ass though.

[O.O.T.A. SPEAKS]

 

The first question who came to my mind was: "Can this guys really play live like as in the video, or was it done by editing?" But when I saw what sleeping bags they are in the other video, I had to assume, it was edited. However if this band cut the cake like that live, then there most be something terribly wrong somewhere else in their biz.

 

 

I do understand your thought process. However, I actually had a non believer come to a show last week and apologize for doubting me after seeing us live. no joke.

[O.O.T.A. SPEAKS]

so lots of good and bad here. I think its confirmed in my head. No matter how many people doubt me to keep going, I seem to just keep going. Its like instinct even if I agree with them. I cant imagine my self doing much else with my life. Id like to consider my self a one%er.

 

Thanks a lot for the advice. And a few of you seem to be well experienced guys. I plan to keep at it. Any advice for my next move?

[Dessalines]

 

Sadly, even a comfortable lifestyle is almost impossible to get from the music business these days. Even guys in lower to mid tier national touring acts are working part time jobs or doing side gigs. And that's just to make enough money to survive on. If you're going to go all in on music, you'd better be willing to do whatever it takes- sleeping in cars or vans, eating Top Ramen every day, never owning a home or a new car or having a family-whatever-and accept the fact that you might not ever do any better financially than that. It has to not matter. My own instincts tell me, based on what you're posting, is that you're already checking out. Something in you is telling you this might not be for you. Which is normal; the fact is, it's not for 99% of guys who start playing music. Almost everyone starts with the dream, and almost no one sees it come true. There's no shame in it. But only you can decide if you're willing to sacrifice what a career in performing music means. I was a full timer years ago. It cost me two marriages, a bout with alcoholism, a couple of cars, etc. But I also had some of the best times of my life. However, that was back when a guy could play 6 nights a week and make the equivalent of 1200 dollars a week in today's money. Those days are long gone. Touring is more expensive and pays less than ever before, and you're competing with guys who will give everything away just to get noticed. The music business I grew up in is a different today as the moon is from chocolate pudding. I could go on about how I stayed with it for too long and now I'm paying for it. But honestly, as much as I regret it now sometimes, I don't know that I'd have changed anything. The prospect of having your talent take you somewhere is a powerful drug that is hard to let go of. In the motorcycle world, there are what are called "1%ers" - guys who completely commit to living the outlaw biker life. Musicians who go all in are like that, too, basically "1%ers". If you aren't that, maybe it's time to think about a future where music is an outlet and a satisfying part time endeavor but not your main gig. I've heard this at least a hundred times, and I've said it myself, but the reality is, after age 30, it's very hard to go back to school. Not impossible, but hard. By then, you might very well have obligations- a relationship, a car payment, whatever- and you find yourself not being able to afford it. That's what happened to me, and lot of other guys I know too.

 

 

 

O.O.T.A.. Listen to this man, he knows whereof he speaks. Really...

[daddymack]

your next move was already suggested...play as many gigs as you can, get on the road and hustle. Don't go too far, just expand outward, get known, build a fanbase, sell out venues.

Go with the 4 'R's: record, release, road, repeat.

You are still young enough to have a shot, but it isn't easy. It takes a lot of time and commitment.

Make sure the rest of the band is in it to win it, or you will wind up getting hamstrung by personnel changes.

Depending where you are in Louisiana, there is a great appreciation of all kinds of music in the larger cities down there, I am always surprised how many musicians survive playing clubs in NOLA, for instance, and as I have relatives in Lake Charles and Baton Rouge, I knew the 'scenes' there as well (at least up until Katrina).

[Rudolf von Hagenwil]

Getting up the ladder requires also to do the 'right' gigs, not only perfomimg at every dog funeral.

 

Today managing a band is still the same as 50, or 30 years ago, good manager who brings a band with potential to the right places. Unfortunately, today the TV shows do not invite such acts as we have in the OT, exposing them to an audience of millions, as back in the 60ties, where every release of a 45 (also of harder rock bands), was promoted by performing in all coutries in the particular TV format.

 

Today it is still no problem to promote a pop artists with TV appearances, and make people buy the song by the hundred thousand online. We have a world map which makes protocols where (area) people buy what music, by monitoring the traffic, in other words we see exactly what is bought, and where.

[Poker99]

 

When is it time to step back and throw in the towel? Im 25. Live in Louisiana with my parents and have barely any money of my own. I have what I think to be a good voice but Ive been struggling to be successful for a few years since I became serious about it at 18. I do not consider success having a g6 and millions.. just enough to afford a comfortable lifestyle. I spend every single day stressing on how to move my current music project to the next level. Every day I get massive anxiety wondering if I need to give up and enjoy my younger years while I still have the chance. My parents are pissed cause I half assed school and my girlfriend (who is a sweet heart and very patient) I know she wishes I spent more time just living and enjoying/spending time with her. I could quit all this band stuff and get a real job on a movie set in an instant. I am not a pop singer although I could easily transform myself into one for the money. I like real music with real meaning.. doesn't matter what genre it is. Ive been in indie style bands, rock, hardcore. I even do hooks for hip hop if someone throws it my way. Is this industry worth all the stress and struggle anymore?

 

 

IMO, not at all. But its up to you to decide... Just know that you can do music all your life if you want to, just don't expect it to pay.

 

Its my new mantra. I don't expect it to pay. So I got a day job, and I control everything I do musically. Anyway almost no one was ready to help. Help comes when you don't need it anymore lol

 

I love my house, girlfriend, friends and family too much to sacrifice everything for a 'shot'.. I know I would end up hating music If I did that.

[Poker99]

 

The dudes in Killswitch Engage are in their 30s and 40s.

 

 

And they have been going at it for how long?

 

I don't know about KE, but I would guess they are piss poor and have day jobs when they get back home between tours.

[AVisme]

 

And they have been going at it for how long?

The band was established in 1999 and broke out around 2004. I imagine they were plugging away for a few years before 1999, so it was probably at least 10 years, like I said. The point was, you don't have to be a teenager to play this music.

 

 

I don't know about KE, but I would guess they are piss poor and have day jobs when they get back home between tours.

Could be, but they could have a comfortable lifestyle too. Do you really want to crush someone's dream over a guess?

 

This forum should be about how to succeed in the music business, and not be as negative as it is.

[BlueStrat]

 

This forum should be about how to succeed in the music business, and not be as negative as it is.

 

 

Actually, it says "Discuss career and industry issues including promotion, distribution, tours, and managers." I don't see anything about "how to succeed " in there. The fact is, NOBODY knows how to succeed anymore in today's music business, if you can even define what success is anymore. Sorry if that's too 'negative' for ya. But it happens to be true. Everyone from bedroom wankers to major label bigwigs are all trying to find something that works. And so far, it's pretty slim.

[sventvkg]

As I said, If I personally don't attain some type of financial and professional success this decade I'll shift to something else but I'm going to have at least 5 different musical things going as well and I think it's smart to have lots of irons in the fire. That's key.

[AVisme]

Actually, it says "Discuss career and industry issues including promotion, distribution, tours, and managers." I don't see anything about "how to succeed " in there. The fact is, NOBODY knows how to succeed anymore in today's music business, if you can even define what success is anymore. Sorry if that's too 'negative' for ya. But it happens to be true. Everyone from bedroom wankers to major label bigwigs are all trying to find something that works. And so far, it's pretty slim.

I don't give a {censored} what it says. I'm giving my opinion about what IT SHOULD BE. Please add me to your ignore list, because you're about the most miserable, bitter son-of-a-bitch on this forum, and I'm sick of hearing your negative {censored}.