Anybody think I should snag this guy's PC?

[Mind Riot]

In my other thread I was discussing how I'm thinking of getting into computer recording. With my budget of $400-$500 I was told I should perhaps look on the used market for a PC. This fellow has an ad in the classifieds selling his PC for $350.

 

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1503616

 

Based on the specs and software, does anyone think it's worth it?

 

Also, I was wondering if it was risky to have a PC shipped? He's all the way in Indiana, I'm in Cali.

 

This might take some of the painful brain cramps out of learning all this stuff.

 

Thoughts?

[Big Boss Man]

Waves Diamond Bundle alone costs $2850 new. The software must be cracked. You need an iLok device to use a legitimate copy of Waves. I wonder if that is included?

[Mind Riot]

Cracked? You mean an illegal copy or something?

 

I don't even know what Waves is. All I need is some multitracking and mixing, and I think the inclusion of Cool Edit Pro and Ableton would take care of that.

 

You think it's a scam or something?

[blue2blue]

Yeah... cracked as in illegal. You could always delete the illegal stuff (which might be most or all of it; note he said "unblocked" I think).

 

BUT worrisome on a whole different front is that noisy fan that has to be tapped to quiet it down. That's a sign of bearing damage. How are you with one of those REALLY BIG magnifying glasses and those really tiny soldering irons?

 

All that tapping so far probably hasn't been all that salutary to the other bearings in the unit.

 

I say, I don't think so.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Yeah, the software bundle that he says adds significantly to the "value" of the rig just smells of piracy - as in software that has been illegally "hacked" to remove or over-ride the copy protection of "legitimate" software. IOW, that software probably didn't cost him a dime. And if it IS legit, he's foolish to give it away at that price.

 

The price of the computer isn't horrible at $350, but OTOH, a new video card is gonna set you back at least another $50, and at $400, you're probably going to find something better / newer / faster - and I'm not fond of the idea of "smacking" a computer either...

 

I'd recommend looking elsewhere.

[Mind Riot]

Any links to where I might be able to find a decent used DAW for a good price? Other than ebay and the classifieds here, of course.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Are you familiar with Craigslist?

 

http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html

[Mind Riot]

Are you familiar with Craigslist? http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html

 

Right-o, I'll check it out. Anywhere else?

[blue2blue]

Just be cautious!

 

There are as high or higher a percentage of scammers and crooks preying on Craigslist patrons as there are on Ebay -- but almost no safeguards. (Don't get me wrong; I like Craigslist a lot. But people using it should realize they are more or less on their own with regard to mediation in disputes, etc.)

[Mind Riot]

Hmmmm, after scanning around a bit I think I may just go and build one. So many variables, so many cut corners on lower priced off the shelf PCs.

 

Say, I had another question. I was looking at components for building it, and I was wondering if there would be any reason I would need a dedicated video card as opposed to integrated video for doing audio work. I know a dedicated card would be better, but I'm not going to be playing games on it or working with video, just using it as a multitrack machine. Aren't most of the interfaces fairly straightforward?

 

Thanks for everyone's help!

[IsildursBane]

You're gonna have a tough time building a computer on that budget. You're looking at $150-$200 just for the case, PSU, and OS. At that budget, the big-name assemblers (Dell, HP, etc) really have the edge with volume pricing. It's not until you get up around $1000 that it pays to DIY.

 

-Dan.

[alphajerk]

i cant imagine

[Mind Riot]

Please forgive me if I'm missing something here, I'm honestly somewhat new to this. But I searched around on newegg for a little bit and starting throwing some parts together to see what it would cost to make a PC with some decent specs out of parts.

 

So what I've got so far is a mid tower ATX case with a single 120MM fan in the back and a 450 watt power supply. The processor is a 3.0 ghz Pentium 4 with 800 mhz FSB, and 1 gig of DDR667 RAM. I've got two Seagate Barricuda SATA drives, one 80 gig for system and one 250 gig for audio files. I threw in a cheap PCI Express x16 video card because the mobo doesn't have integrated video, and a DVD ROM/CD-R combo drive, and a copy of Windows XP Home for the OS. The mobo will support all of this, and also has four clear PCI slots for interfaces and such as well as supporting up to 4 gigs of RAM so I can add more later should I need it.

 

The total cost of all of this including shipping is about $626.

 

http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/Shopping/Shoppingcart.asp?DEPA=6&submit=view&name=My-Shopping-Cart

 

Now I'm not trying to go against the judgment of people more experienced than me, I'm just trying to figure all this out. But as far as I can tell, this far exceeds the system requirements of any software I'd be using and in general seems to have the specs to be a capable DAW once I got all the software and an interface and monitor.

 

So please tell me, am I heading in the right direction or is there something I'm missing here?

[Big Boss Man]

The link you posted is not going to let us see the specific components, but it sounds it should work.

[stage7]

What you have picked out sounds like it will work fine, but you may want to consider a dvd-r drive instead of a dvd/cd-r. You don't need one to get things to work, but once you start backing up your files to external media you'll wish you had one. Smaller projects that I've done can be backed up to 1 or 2 dvds, but it takes 5-10 cds to do it.

[IsildursBane]

 

So what I've got so far is a mid tower ATX case with a single 120MM fan in the back and a 450 watt power supply. The processor is a 3.0 ghz Pentium 4 with 800 mhz FSB, and 1 gig of DDR667 RAM. I've got two Seagate Barricuda SATA drives, one 80 gig for system and one 250 gig for audio files. I threw in a cheap PCI Express x16 video card because the mobo doesn't have integrated video, and a DVD ROM/CD-R combo drive, and a copy of Windows XP Home for the OS. The mobo will support all of this, and also has four clear PCI slots for interfaces and such as well as supporting up to 4 gigs of RAM so I can add more later should I need it. The total cost of all of this including shipping is about $626.

 

 

The Pentium 4 is a couple generations old and as with any older processor, may pose a bit of an issue down the road when trying to run newer software.

 

-Dan.

[Big Boss Man]

Which mobo? Make sure you get something that will also support a Core 2 Duo (LGA 775 socket) so you can upgrade down the road.

[Mind Riot]

 

Which mobo? Make sure you get something that will also support a Core 2 Duo (LGA 775 socket) so you can upgrade down the road.

 

 

Sorry about the link. The motherboard is an MSI 945P Neo3-F LGA 775 Intel 945P ATX Intel Motherboard. It supports Pentium 4, Celeron 4, Pentium D, and Core 2 Duo.

 

I could also choose a different CPU. A Pentium D is only about ten to twenty dollars difference.

[GZsound]

It sounds to me like you are getting smart fairly fast.

 

Consider this.. No matter what you build or have built, it will be obsolete or need upgrading almost immediately to be "current"..so ignore that particular point.

 

Buy the best machine you can afford or the best components you can afford and build something that works..now.

 

I had a dedicated music computer system built for me last year that cost under five hundred dollars and works flawlessly. When you don't need internal sound cards, modems, etc. it's easy to apply more money to RAM and hard drive capacity.

 

Of course, my computer is now obsolete. But since it still does exactly what I had it built to do, I don't care.

 

I did use Craigslist to find a really good deal on a 21" monitor.

[Phil O'Keefe]

From what I'm able to tell from your last post, I'd say you're on the right track. Enough RAM? Check. Plenty of CPU power for a base system, with the ability to go dual core later? Check? Decent sized PS? Check. Seperate drives for audio and OS? Check.

 

Spend the extra for a better optical drive (DVD burner) if you can, and get the fastest CPU you can afford. Do not spend the moolah on a high-end video card; most DAW software has relatively light display requirements, especially compared to what gamers would want / need. A $50 PCI-e vid card should suffice. I'm not a fan of onboard video - avoid it if you can, because it will share the main system RAM and potentially slow your system down a bit. I am still using an ATA HDD for my system drive - on some systems, SATA drives are harder to use for your C drive due to the hoops you have to jump through to format them and install the OS. ATA's work fine for that and are less likely to have the hassle factor. Definitely go with SATA for your audio drive if you can though - they're faster and work great for that. Make sure all your HDD's have at least a 7,200 RPM rotational speed, and at least an 8mb cache. Does your mobo have USB and firewire ports? If not, a decent firewire card will come in handy for external HDD's for backups, as well as audio interfaces if you plan on going with a firewire based interface - which I personally prefer over PCI interfaces. Finally, double check on your DAW manufacturer's support pages to make sure there are no incompatibility issues with your motherboard's chipset.

[Mind Riot]

From what I'm able to tell from your last post, I'd say you're on the right track. Enough RAM? Check. Plenty of CPU power for a base system, with the ability to go dual core later? Check? Decent sized PS? Check. Seperate drives for audio and OS? Check. Spend the extra for a better optical drive (DVD burner) if you can, and get the fastest CPU you can afford. Do not spend the moolah on a high-end video card; most DAW software has relatively light display requirements, especially compared to what gamers would want / need. A $50 PCI-e vid card should suffice. I'm not a fan of onboard video - avoid it if you can, because it will share the main system RAM and potentially slow your system down a bit. I am still using an ATA HDD for my system drive - on some systems, SATA drives are harder to use for your C drive due to the hoops you have to jump through to format them and install the OS. ATA's work fine for that and are less likely to have the hassle factor. Definitely go with SATA for your audio drive if you can though - they're faster and work great for that. Make sure all your HDD's have at least a 7,200 RPM rotational speed, and at least an 8mb cache. Does your mobo have USB and firewire ports? If not, a decent firewire card will come in handy for external HDD's for backups, as well as audio interfaces if you plan on going with a firewire based interface - which I personally prefer over PCI interfaces. Finally, double check on your DAW manufacturer's support pages to make sure there are no incompatibility issues with your motherboard's chipset.

 

The mobo has at least four USB ports, if memory serves, but no Firewire. I can always pick up a PCI/Firewire card later.

 

Hard drives are covered as far as speed and cache, but I'll check to see if I can get a regular ATA for the system drive instead. I'll have to make sure there's enough connections for that, but from what I've read one ATA connection on the mobo will support two devices, like one HDD and one optical drive. Is that right?

 

I'll also check around to see if there's a combo DVD-R and CD-R drive.

 

I was planning on getting a PCI interface because I've read they're the fastest with the lowest latency and this will be a permanent installation in my home, it doesn't need to go anywhere. Plus there are some decent inexpensive options for them, I personally was looking at the M-Audio Delta 66. It has all the ins and outs I would need except MIDI, and for that I think I could get a MIDI/USB interface for $40 (I was thinking of trying out some drum samples later on and triggering them from my module).

 

The way I'm going is to get myself started here with something decent, and something that I can upgrade later. This mobo will support up to 4 gigs of RAM, and as I already mentioned it supports the newer processors. It also has some more PCI slots available for Firewire cards or the like later.

 

I'm still learning about all of this, and for all I know I could end up starting over with different components at some point, but I definitely feel like I'm starting to learn how all of this goes together. Even with me skimping, it still adds up quick, and I may have to go lower with components. Both newegg and tiger direct have some seemingly good deals on ready made PCs that could be upgradable later, but I'm still investigating.

 

Thanks for everyone's input, I appreciate it and keep it coming!

[Phil O'Keefe]

 

Hard drives are covered as far as speed and cache, but I'll check to see if I can get a regular ATA for the system drive instead. I'll have to make sure there's enough connections for that, but from what I've read one ATA connection on the mobo will support two devices, like one HDD and one optical drive. Is that right?

 

Most motherboards will have a primary and secondary ATA interface, and each can handle up to two drives - the master and the slave. You set which is which via either their position on the cable and / or via small jumpers on the back of the drives. Ideally you do NOT want an optical drive and a HDD on the same cable.

 

I'll also check around to see if there's a combo DVD-R and CD-R drive.

 

Most (if not all) DVD burners can also burn CD-R's and CD-RW's too.

[Mind Riot]

Hard drives are covered as far as speed and cache, but I'll check to see if I can get a regular ATA for the system drive instead. I'll have to make sure there's enough connections for that, but from what I've read one ATA connection on the mobo will support two devices, like one HDD and one optical drive. Is that right? Most motherboards will have a primary and secondary ATA interface, and each can handle up to two drives - the master and the slave. You set which is which via either their position on the cable and / or via small jumpers on the back of the drives. Ideally you do NOT want an optical drive and a HDD on the same cable. I'll also check around to see if there's a combo DVD-R and CD-R drive. Most (if not all) DVD burners can also burn CD-R's and CD-RW's too.

 

Well, I can't find a mobo that supports Pentium D that has more than one ATA interface. Looks like the march of technology is in the direction of SATA with the newer processors and chipsets. I'll just have to use SATA drives for both the system and the audio.

 

I found a DVD burner that'll do it all for about three dollars more.

 

I also picked out an inexpensive monitor, a 17" Acer LCD for about $155. Should take care of the horrible noise you get with guitar pickups and CRT monitors, and be nice and compact.

 

I was wondering, a friend of mine was telling me about dual channel RAM, and there was some information on it on newegg as well. Apparently although the spec for the size seems the same (512, 1 gig, etc.), dual channel RAM offers twice the bandwidth and increases speed and performance.

 

Now, my chosen mobo supports dual channel memory and also has four slots with support for up to 4 gigs. So even if I got a smaller set of dual channel 512 mb RAM, there would still be two slots I could use for later expansion.

 

So the question I have now is, is it true that dual channel RAM really improves things, and if so, is it worth it in the world of audio and DAWs?

 

Total price now: About $750 with monitor.

[Mind Riot]

A slightly different tack here...

 

I remembered a friend of mine buying some stuff from tigerdirect.com, so I thought I'd check out their stuff to see if there was any smokin' deals. Seemed mostly the same kind of thing, but I did spot this:

 

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2769602&Tab=2&NoMapp=0

 

Pretty much the same specs as the PC I was looking to put together, with a few notable exceptions:

 

1) Only one hard drive.

 

2) Integrated video.

 

3) Weaker 266 watt power supply.

 

4) Slower RAM, DDR400 instead of DDR667.

 

Other than that, it's the same CPU, same amount of RAM (with the same room for expansion), a 250 gig SATA drive, a couple of free PCI slots, and a DVD burner. So I was thinking, as an alternative to putting one together, I could buy this one and add a second hard drive and put in a better power supply. If I later decided to, I could disable the integrated graphics and buy a video card.

 

I picked out a 450 watt power supply and a second 80 gig SATA drive. Adding those to the cost, it still comes out to about a hundred dollars less than the one I was thinking of putting together. So I'm considering it, it would certainly be nice to save a C-note if the specs are comparable. Any thoughts?

[alphajerk]

that is the "computer" [spec wise] i abandoned last... its OKAY. will get you by, but wont move you foward AT ALL. you wont get much out of it... but if you dont put much into it, you should be okay.