Headphone Mixing: Closed-back vs. Open

[Palaver]

Hey guys,

 

I am about to pull the trigger on a pair of Ultrasone 2500s. I have a pair of AKGs that are closed-back for tracking.

 

I live in a condo, and I find that I can't have my monitors on all the time without driving people nuts... I usually get a basic mix in the current phones... then, go to the near-fields (in order to keep sanity for my roomate).

 

I am interested in the Ultrasones, simply because of the magnetic shielding (probably total bull{censored}), but more importantly, their significant dB reduction (despite no noticable volume decrease). I play a lot of music, and I don't mind shelling out a pretty penny on a nice set of phones... especially those that are easier on the ears.

 

In general, are closed-backs more accurate? Or should I go for the open-back design for extended periods of use?

 

I know open designs are better suited for longer use due to comfort... but for what is gained in comfort, do I lose in sound accuracy?

 

If closed backs are better suited for a more accurate response, then I'll go with a closed model... in which case, I'll just stick with what I have.

 

I love my AKGs, but I know they have a coloured lower end, and wearing closed phones for hours at a time can be fatiquing on my head. They isolate sound well, and are great for doing vox. However, I want another set for pure accuracy, mixing, and comfort.

 

If you think I should consider another model... by all means. Suggest!

 

Thanks peeps,

Phil

[Weasel9992]

 

Hey guys, I am about to pull the trigger on a pair of Ultrasone 2500s. I have a pair of AKGs that are closed-back for tracking. I live in a condo, and I find that I can't have my monitors on all the time without driving people nuts... I usually get a basic mix in the current phones... then, go to the near-fields (in order to keep sanity for my roomate). I am interested in the Ultrasones, simply because of the magnetic shielding (probably total bull{censored}), but more importantly, their significant dB reduction (despite no noticable volume decrease). I play a lot of music, and I don't mind shelling out a pretty penny on a nice set of phones... especially those that are easier on the ears. In general, are closed-backs more accurate? Or should I go for the open-back design for extended periods of use? I know open designs are better suited for longer use due to comfort... but for what is gained in comfort, do I lose in sound accuracy? If closed backs are better suited for a more accurate response, then I'll go with a closed model... in which case, I'll just stick with what I have. I love my AKGs, but I know they have a coloured lower end, and wearing closed phones for hours at a time can be fatiquing on my head. They isolate sound well, and are great for doing vox. However, I want another set for pure accuracy, mixing, and comfort. If you think I should consider another model... by all means. Suggest! Thanks peeps, Phil

 

 

It all depends on the quality of the headphones of course, but closed-back designs are generally less accurate sonically and in terms of stereo field placement. Closed-back headphones suffer to varying degrees from proximity effect, so the low end is "bigger" than it actually is. In terms of stereo width, the whole mix is just kinda smashed in on both sides of your head.

 

Open-back headphones tend to be much more accurate on the low end and from a stereo field standpoint, but then there's the issue of leakage. They also have to be properly powered or they distort easily.

 

If you're *JUST* mixing with them, then go with open-back. If you're doing both, then there's semi open-back designs or closed-back. For tracking only, go with closed-back.

 

Frank

[Palaver]

 

It all depends on the quality of the headphones of course, but closed-back designs are generally less accurate sonically and in terms of stereo field placement. Closed-back headphones suffer to varying degrees from proximity effect, so the low end is "bigger" than it actually is. In terms of stereo width, the whole mix is just kinda smashed in on both sides of your head. Open-back headphones tend to be much more accurate on the low end and from a stereo field standpoint, but then there's the issue of leakage. They also have to be properly powered or they distort easily. If you're *JUST* mixing with them, then go with open-back. If you're doing both, then there's semi open-back designs or closed-back. For tracking only, go with closed-back. Frank

 

 

Thanks. Great explaination and I appreciate the advice. I know headphones are in a general no-no, but I like it as a starting point. It's also great to see how your mixes translate to iPods, etc.

 

I obviously check the real imaging problems on real monitors (mono reference/phase & correlate). I always find after working with the near-fields, it improves the headphone mix a lot more.

[Weasel9992]

 

Thanks. Great explaination and I appreciate the advice. I know headphones are in a general no-no, but I like it as a starting point. It's also great to see how your mixes translate to iPods, etc.

 

 

Sure...well, that's what they're for: reference. That's the correct use for headphones.

 

Frank

[Phil O'Keefe]

It all depends on the quality of the headphones of course, but closed-back designs are generally less accurate sonically and in terms of stereo field placement.

 

Yup - if you are going to mix on cans, I'd definitely recommend the most accurate open backed model you can get your hands on. For me, that would probably mean Grados...

 

However, I do feel it is best, whenever possible, to use speakers. Cans are great as an additional reference; to check how it will sound with iPods and other personal MP3 players, and to see how it will sound for the headphone crowd, as well as for detecting subtle sonic gremlins, but the stereo field is less natural, and the spectral balance is usually skewed too, so if you're going to mix mainly on cans, proceed with caution, and reference any final mix candidates on actual speakers whenever possible.

[Palaver]

 

It all depends on the quality of the headphones of course, but closed-back designs are generally less accurate sonically and in terms of stereo field placement. Yup - if you are going to mix on cans, I'd definitely recommend the most accurate open backed model you can get your hands on. For me, that would probably mean Grados... However, I do feel it is best, whenever possible, to use speakers. Cans are great as an additional reference; to check how it will sound with iPods and other personal MP3 players, and to see how it will sound for the headphone crowd, as well as for detecting subtle sonic gremlins, but the stereo field is less natural, and the spectral balance is usually skewed too, so if you're going to mix mainly on cans, proceed with caution, and reference any final mix candidates on actual speakers whenever possible.

 

 

Thanks for the great response.

 

Which Grado model would you recommend? I notice that they have a Statement Series, a Reference Series, and a Prestige Series.

 

I am assuming that the Reference Series would be the ones prefered for a 'head-phone' mixing environment?

 

Price isn't really that much of an issue. I am looking for accuracy. However, I am still quite intriqued by the Ultrasone make.

 

Cheers,

Phil B

[Lee Knight]

I love the Ultrasones. I haven't sprung for them but will. I tried them at NAMM the fisrt year they came out and spoke with the designer. The whole concept of aiming the drivers so the sound refects off of the fleshy part of the ear and not rammed down the canal... is a great one.

 

Great phones. I see a lot of guys slam them and I do not get that at all.

[Phil O'Keefe]

Thanks for the great response. Which Grado model would you recommend? I notice that they have a Statement Series, a Reference Series, and a Prestige Series. I am assuming that the Reference Series would be the ones prefered for a 'head-phone' mixing environment? Price isn't really that much of an issue. I am looking for accuracy. However, I am still quite intriqued by the Ultrasone make. Cheers, Phil B

 

 

Phil, probably the best cans I've ever heard were Grado RS-1's. They stink for tracking (they're open backed and leak like mad), and they're certainly not inexpensive, but as a headphone reference, I've personally never heard anything I liked better - although they do have a new top of the line model that I have not heard yet. The Prestige Series SR325's are similar, but less expensive, while many people feel the SR125's offer the best balance of price to performance.

 

Great phones. I see a lot of guys slam them and I do not get that at all.

 

I guess you'd have to put me into that category too. I have heard some of them at trade shows, and Gearmike brought over three brand new pairs of thee different mid / high end models for us to check out, and I didn't really care for any of them. You'd have to ask Mike for the details about what he thought, but I believe we both had similar thoughts about them - they felt like they had a big "hole" in the midrange. Really weird. They looked like solid, well-built cans, but I just didn't mesh with the sound of them. YMMV.

[egelmett]

 

Which Grado model would you recommend?

 

 

Grado SR225

 

They were about $200 ten years ago. I still use them to this day....for reference, of course!

 

They are great headphones. You may need to replace the ear cups as they tend to deteriorate after a while (8 years).

[egelmett]

 

The whole concept of aiming the drivers so the sound refects off of the fleshy part of the ear and not rammed down the canal...

 

 

I don't doubt that they're good headphones but how can they say that when every ear is different? Hell, one of my ears is higher than the other...Seems a bit of marketing fluff to me....

[jdwhitak]

I've been recording and mixing on headphones exclusively for a couple of years now and I've gotten good results. Mainly because I'm aware of the weaknesses in the headphones that I'm using and can compensate for it in the mix. The same goes for near fields too. They all have weaknesses, but if you're aware of them your mixes will be a lot better. Now for headphone suggestions.

 

The Ultrasones are total bull{censored}. Don't waste your money. When they first came out I investigated their claims and even took a pair apart to see how it was made. Their claims about electro-magnestism are complete nonsense and completely unsupported in the scientific literature. The drivers aren't angled towards the ear canal like they say either. There is a piece of plastic that covers half of the driver. That's it!

 

I do agree with others here on the closed back vs. open thing. I've also owned many of the headphones everyone is suggesting including the Grado's, which I thought were great at first. Then after comparing to others in my stable, not so great! For closed backs I would go with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro. I personally own these and I think they are the best closed back headphone out there. For open I'd go with AKG 701/702 or a Sennheiser HD650. Both are world class headphones. I don't personally own either, but I tried the AKG 701 and was extremely impressed. I plan to buy a pair when I have the extra money. They are also low ohm and can easily be driven with an iPod or computer output.

 

Hope this helps!

[James Erceg]

 

I've been recording and mixing on headphones exclusively for a couple of years now and I've gotten good results. Mainly because I'm aware of the weaknesses in the headphones that I'm using and can compensate for it in the mix. The same goes for near fields too. They all have weaknesses, but if you're aware of them your mixes will be a lot better. Now for headphone suggestions. The Ultrasones are total bull{censored}. Don't waste your money. When they first came out I investigated their claims and even took a pair apart to see how it was made. Their claims about electro-magnestism are complete nonsense and completely unsupported in the scientific literature. The drivers aren't angled towards the ear canal like they say either. There is a piece of plastic that covers half of the driver. That's it! I do agree with others here on the closed back vs. open thing. I've also owned many of the headphones everyone is suggesting including the Grado's, which I thought were great at first. Then after comparing to others in my stable, not so great! For closed backs I would go with Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro. I personally own these and I think they are the best closed back headphone out there. For open I'd go with AKG 701/702 or a Sennheiser HD650. Both are world class headphones. I don't personally own either, but I tried the AKG 701 and was extremely impressed. I plan to buy a pair when I have the extra money. They are also low ohm and can easily be driven with an iPod or computer output. Hope this helps!

 

 

Thanks for your comment. I want to become good at mixing using Headphones. I have a Senheiser HD280. Any suggestions.

 

Cheers,

 

James

[Weasel9992]

Mixing using headphones exclusively is really not a good idea...there's a reason why no one does it. I understand that there are some situations where it's either that or not mix at all, but the drawbacks typically far outweigh the benefits. Headphones (like spectrum analyzers) will become a crutch if you let them. If you can avoid it I would.

 

Frank

[offramp]

When I've had to rely on phones for mixing, I've always been happy with the results from my AKG 240's. Open-backed; when used at lower volumes, there's the sensation--at least for me--of actual air space between the source and my eardrums. Nice overall tonal balance, too. Used them for about 20 years, now.