How do you start setting up your reverbs?

[Kaux]

 

Well, how do you choose wich reverb to use?

 

And when you choose one, how do you set it up initially? and , do you move it as you mix, or you leave it alone and mix around it?

 

I have a difficult time making my reverbs sound as i want, and when i actually achieve it, is after a long tweaking. At the end i dont know if it was more a matter of trial and error So, how do you do it?

[UstadKhanAli]

Well, how do you choose wich reverb to use? And when you choose one, how do you set it up initially? and , do you move it as you mix, or you leave it alone and mix around it? I have a difficult time making my reverbs sound as i want, and when i actually achieve it, is after a long tweaking. At the end i dont know if it was more a matter of trial and error So, how do you do it?

 

I think it often does require a lot of tweaking...both with EQ and with "timing". And part of it, at least for me, is that I will frequently try and see how much I can use a delay instead of more reverb, often using them together, so I am tweaking both to try and get the reverb in place.

 

I generally will know what kind of reverb to choose just by the feel of the song, and I have maybe 3 general settings on my reverb unit that I will really like, and I'll begin by tweaking those.

[WRGKMC]

Definately depends on the material and what you're wanting to achieve. Reverb can often be a situation where less is better. If you're hearing to the reverb and its drawing your ear to it you most likely have too much happening. It also becomes more prominant after mastering in many cases.

The exception is recreating a inconcert/live sound. In that case adding the reverb or echo it may be better to apply it to the overall mix.

 

I usually run reverbs in my aux send and I have go to presets setup for my reverb settings so ball parking what I want goes quickly. The one I use often has a brightness slider that is handy vs using a separate EQ. As far as speed/room size, I can often tune it in faster on a guitar than a vocal.

 

For something like echo you can use something like a BPM meter to figure out the beats per minuite and set echo speed to match in single, half quarter tripplet beats etc. You could do the same for a reverb I suppose but since the time is so short in comparison to echo its easier to ear it to size.

After that brightness, Bass rolloff, decay, diffusion etc are just minor tweaks.

 

I used to mix with heavy effects including reverb because I like them and they're alot of fun. But over time I found, less is better. I use them to achieve debth, separation and ambiance but unless its a Motown type mix where I want heavy plate on the instruments or vocals as an effect, I have backed off of they're useage quite a bit over the years.

[Majoria]

I always have my reverb on an AUX bus and an eq after the reverb. I high pass the eq higher than the normal track so that the reverb isn't bass/mud heavy. I also cut the frequencies where the attack of the source track is. For drums, I cut out some of the 3-4 kHz and high pass around 200 Hz for starters.

 

For the reverb, I start with a longer pre-delay than may be necessary to get the attack more apparent, then back down until I hear the attack begin to be compromised and settle on a place just above that usually (unless I want to reduce the attack). After some trial and error I have some plugins with saved starting points for drums especially, a few for vocals, etc. I have some notes for using external hardware reverb, eq, etc. But since my external gear isn't high end I usually just stick with plugins.

[UstadKhanAli]

I also sometimes will have a compressor before the reverb, and yes, an EQ after.

[Kaux]

Great Guys...

 

When you just start setting up you reverb... do you listen to a soloed instrument in special? I often start setting my reverb listening to it applied to drums or vocals...

 

When you use more than one reverbs... do you always have a common reverb for all, or could be the case that you use a reverb for dums exclusively for example? and then another one just for vocals?

 

I usually use a long reverb for the "general" ambient, and common for almost all the tracks, and then shorter, brighter reverbs with more pre delay. I really like to use a band pass filtered reverb with long pre delay in the snare, so i can achieve a really noticeable...ta-AHHH, ta-AHHH

 

Do you ever apply reverb to your bass or bass drum?

[UstadKhanAli]

 

Great Guys... When you just start setting up you reverb... do you listen to a soloed instrument in special? I often start setting my reverb listening to it applied to drums or vocals...

 

 

I'll solo it sometimes, just to hear what is going on, or to listen for "splatter" on the consonants of a vocal or other things.

 

 

When you use more than one reverbs... do you always have a common reverb for all, or could be the case that you use a reverb for dums exclusively for example? and then another one just for vocals?

 

 

I always have a common reverb for all to try and "glue" things together or put them in a similar space, and if I need to put something in a different space, I'll use a second reverb. Or a delay.

 

 

 

 

Do you ever apply reverb to your bass or bass drum?

 

 

Sometimes, especially on sort of ambient or atmospheric tracks, but not super often. Definitely no rules, but I tend not to do it unless I'm really hearing the track call for that.

[WRGKMC]

Some other notes, Reverb on drums is generall differently set up than vocals. In drums the lower frequencies are drier to completely dry like the kick to prevent creating a mud bath and the higher FQs like snare and cymbals get the reverb. Settings with no earley reference short attack and decay like Plate reverb tend to sound best, anywhere from 1 to 3 second decay which is fairly long.

 

You can also use reverb to create a semi stereo effect or moving channel to channel either by having a combination of different room sizes on each channel or a combo of dry an wet.

 

Another trick that can be used with reverb or echo hardware or software with two mics. Put a gate on the second mic and reverb and set it farther away from the singer. As the singer intensionally uses dyanmics and sings louder the second mic goes off and gives the loud vocals a reverb shotgun effect. with a soft gate it can be set for some unique vocal effects.

 

 

I did find this article in a Sound on Sound article that explains most of the basics. I'm guessing theres a first part to it you can probibly find as well.

 

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov01/articles/advancedreverb2.asp

[I was The Funk]

This will sound sor of like a cop out.

 

 

I pretty much use a preset. Its the "mellow ambiance" preset on the Sonitus reverb that comes with Sonar. I put it on a bus and route a send from everything to it in various amounts. Thats my "room" sound that glues everything together. I change the delay times to match the song. The amount I use on any given instrument is basically the "forward and backward" of the mix. "Effects" as such are usually done with a delay.

[chris carter]

These days I'm mostly using SIR for reverb. Generally speaking, if I'm using a hall or plate or room, I just use my Lexicon 960 convolution samples (all presets). I also have a handful of springs that I reach for very very often. I might adjust the pre-delay and length. Occasionally I'll adjust EQ on the return. But generally speaking I don't get too complicated.

 

That said, I often combine reverbs with delays...so..... and with delays I do all kinds of crazy sh!t to them. But with reverbs I don't tweak a whole lot.

 

I typically don't use tons of reverb on most of the records I make. But, the reverbs I use tend to be specific to the instrument more often than not. In other words, I don't typically have a "general" verb that gets applied to everything that needs verb. Rather, I might have a lead vocal verb, a snare verb, a piano verb, etc. Same general rule goes for delays. It can add up to a lot of aux busses. Today I'm printing mixes for two songs that only have 6 or 7 returns each, but tomorrow (unless the mix gets approved this morning) I'll be printing mixes for a song with SEVENTEEN returns (all verbs and delays).

[WRGKMC]

Chris, How do you rate that SIR reverb. I think I have a copy but dont remember using it much. Lately I been using Waves Rverb, but its a cpu sucker. I'm still trying out a fewer light weight ones that can do a quality basic job that dont require alot of fiddeling around with.

[chris carter]

 

Chris, How do you rate that SIR reverb. I think I have a copy but dont remember using it much. Lately I been using Waves Rverb, but its a cpu sucker. I'm still trying out a fewer light weight ones that can do a quality basic job that dont require alot of fiddeling around with.

 

 

You tell me how it sounds. www.millraceonline.com/music . All of the tracks except 7-10 use SIR for the reverb.

 

The amount of fiddling necessary is dependent upon the impulses you have and how much you like them.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I do like convolution verbs for some things, hardware for others, and algorithmic verbs for other things. I tend to assign individual sends / returns for different things in the mix. The drums usually get their own reverb or two, the vocal gets its own, etc. That holds true even if I'm using the same type of reverb for more than one source; partially because I like to return that same verb on the same stereo pair or groups of faders that those instruments are being sent to the board on. If you're mixing completely in the box, you can probably forgo that and "share" verbs if you want. That can come in handy if your computer is low on computational "horsepower" and won't let you run as many instances of verb plugins as you might want...

 

I usually like to have a plate, a hall, a room and an early reflection algorithm set up when I start a mix, but as I work through things, that's all subject to change - except maybe the ER. I love Yamaha's take on that, and I nearly always wind up using at least some of that on nearly everything I do. I don't normally like "full range" verbs, so I usually do some bandwidth limiting on the verbs - in the verb plugin or hardware unit's controls if it has it available, or with a post EQ if it doesn't. I like to use a HPF to get rid of the really low frequency stuff from the verb - there's not much sense in verb in the 6-8 kHz range.

[WRGKMC]

Chris, I'll have to take a listen later when I'm on a box with a sound card. $189 for Sir 2 with 4 impulses sounds like a rip to me. They want $299 for 16 impulses. I think I can do alot better for the price including a top of the line hardware unit for that price.

 

I hear you on that Phil. I have some older ones that seem to keep coming back to use like Hyperprisim because its so easy to set up. Think I bought it for like $15 on a budget software site way back. Dont think its available any more but it does work with XP.

 

http://www.sonicspot.com/hyperprism/hyperprism.html

 

Theyre room and hyperverb are pretty decent and they have low resource pull. I like the brightness slider especially on brightening up drums or guitars. But like with anything else, a new mix you want to try a few things out for different flavors. What works for one mix may suck on another.

 

Last week I tried out some stock steinberg ones. Not much happening there. It did the job but nothing exciting. I have all the normal free guitar ones like Blue, Kjaerhus etc but still havent found any one go to quality verb. Its not only a sound quality thing it has to do with how much dorking around to get a good sound. Things that come to mind are first sliders vs knobs. Knobs are the dumbest thing to have on a plugin for people using a mouse. Some realistic presets to get you in the ball park. Gradual adjustments, low resources, (What else can I wish for) ah, something that sounds like a rack unit.

 

Maybe I should use some of my hardware rack units again. Got about 5 of them. Still its a chore patching things in to get them working but for tweaking in and getting things balanced theres nothing like hands on a knob to get the job done.

[chris carter]

I have several outboard reverb boxes. I pretty much don't use them except when I'm programming midi and need hardware for the live midi tracks. But at mixdown when all midi parts have been printed I pretty much don't use them anymore. They are digital boxes, so there's not a lot of advantage (maybe if I owned a Briscati, but I'm not about to blow that kind of money on a reverb box!!!).

 

There is another upside and that's recall time. I do use outboard when I mix records and not having to use outboard reverb saves me time. I'm so insanely busy these days that I ALWAYS have multiple mixes going at the same time. I do one song, send an mp3 to the client to check and move on to the next song while I wait for a reply, and so on and so on. Recalling all my hardware is a pain and not having to recall some digital boxes that I can duplicate the same (or better) ITB saves me a little headache. Every now and then I have an outboard reverb effect that I can't do well ITB because of whatever quirk the hardware has, so I print that reverb just so I don't have to recall it!

[Kaux]

For those of you using separate reverbs for almost every track... how do you achieve that "glueing" effect? do you share the same preset in all your reverbs and change it for every instace?

 

Wow phil, i usually bandlimit my reverbs, but you do it a lot lower than me, you LPF at 6- 8 Khz right? i always admire the clarity in the top end of your mixes, do you think it has to do a lot with this?

 

How do you guys use delay instead of reverbs? can you give some advices?

 

I have been using this Free vst called Omniverb de Jeroen Breebaart, you can find it here http://www.jeroenbreebaart.com/audio_vst.htm. I dont really like reverbs with tons of controls, but this VST really sound good without a lot of tweaking...to my ears at least. Since it is free we all can try it.

[WRGKMC]

I think what glues the sound together is the Dry sound not the reverb. You really need a solid sounding project properly mixed before using reverb to begin with. Putting reverb on there without a strong dry sound will only make things worse. Reverb is usually used to add depth by pushing an instrument back into the soundscape - to the back of the room so you would say giving a more 3D sound. Untill the 2D dry sound is there the 3D wont happen propelly.

 

As far as echo, its usually applied the same way but it usually sounds better with the beats per minuite BPM set properly in either matching times, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/8 etc taps/note to the beat in setting the rate.

 

You can download simple BPM analizer programs that will test the songs beats per minuite and it will give you the songs average beats per minuite if the songs rythum isnt too complex. They also have the tap type where you tap at the rythum speed and get a read out. Say the song came out to 100BPM, you could set the echo to 33,50, 100, 200, 300 etc.

 

I usually walk my echos in by ear but having a close to matching echo speed will help prevent the echo beats from confusing the rythum parts going on in the music unless thats you're intention to do so. You have factors with live music where tempo changes or vaviors and the human element makes getting it sput on very difficult at time but with the BPM scanner you can get an average if you want to set it and forget it.

[chris carter]

 

For those of you using separate reverbs for almost every track... how do you achieve that "glueing" effect? do you share the same preset in all your reverbs and change it for every instace?

 

 

Glue.... reverb has, for me, relatively little to do with the 'glue'. The glue is in most everything else.... arrangement, level, pan, compression, EQ, etc. As for the same presets, the answer is 'no'.

 

I don't really know how to describe this, but with experience you start to get better and better at just 'hearing' the record and knowing where you want it to go and just instinctively knowing what to do. I don't think in technical terms when I mix. So I don't think about relating this reverb to that one. I just hear a certain sound in my head and I know what to go for. By way of example, I often use springs on lead vocals, but I might use a plate on something else, and a hall on something else, all in the same song.

 

 

Wow phil, i usually bandlimit my reverbs, but you do it a lot lower than me, you LPF at 6- 8 Khz right? i always admire the clarity in the top end of your mixes, do you think it has to do a lot with this?

 

 

Everyone has different techniques, but to be honest, I've never subscribed to all this band limiting of reverbs. I will sometimes roll off a little top or bottom, but nothing drastic unless I'm really going for an 'effect'. Usually if I need to do some drastic band-limiting, it's becuase I've screwed up somewhere else! That said, different people have different ways of getting to the same result so it's certainly a very valid approach. I suppose it also depends on what reverbs you start with. When I think about it, until I got the impulses I have (mainly lex 960 and some choice springs adn other odds and ends) I DID tweak the frequency response of my verbs a lot more. Now that I have verbs I really really like, I don't have to touch them much.

 

 

How do you guys use delay instead of reverbs? can you give some advices?

 

 

Delay is probably the most useful and flexible effect known to mankind. You can do SOOOO much with delay. I use delays for everything from greating stereo (ie. hass), to your long echo, to creating early reflections, to creating space, to creating all kinds of crap. And then when you start compressing them pre or post, and distorting them and all kinds of stuff, it's limitless what you can do with them. But to sort of give a short answer, one of the nice things about delays as opposed to reverbs is that you can make them audibly present without them soaking up space in your mix.

[Kaux]

Delay is probably the most useful and flexible effect known to mankind. You can do SOOOO much with delay. I use delays for everything from greating stereo (ie. hass), to your long echo, to creating early reflections, to creating space, to creating all kinds of crap. And then when you start compressing them pre or post, and distorting them and all kinds of stuff, it's limitless what you can do with them. But to sort of give a short answer, one of the nice things about delays as opposed to reverbs is that you can make them audibly present without them soaking up space in your mix.

 

:thu:

[Majoria]

I very rarely even use delay. I've played with it a lot but haven't been impressed at it as a tool. To each his own.

[chris carter]

 

I very rarely even use delay. I've played with it a lot but haven't been impressed at it as a tool. To each his own.

 

 

Find a good book on psycoacoustics. Then the power of delays will be revealed!