Recording guitars: live vs studio

[LowYaw]

Since I am now a sole guitar player in our band - and that's good news )) - I finally seem to have the tone I like. To assist my own ears' judgement, I spoke to my bandmates, a couple of soundmen, and the consensus seems to be that the tone I have now works great in a band context.

 

We tried to record a tune last week, and unfortunately, on the record, it turned out to be harsh, bright, and thin. I tried three mics - Senn 609, Senn 421 and SM57, i tried on-axis, off-axis, close, far, finally got usable tone, but it wasn't as good as it supposed to be... or as good and fat and nice as it sounded in the room.

 

The mics were reproducing the "cone tone", or the sound you hear directly in front of the speakers, in a rather adequate manner, but the tone, you know, as opposed to "frequency range" is actually very different.

 

I am not sure if that makes any sense, but I did my best.

Anybody got ideas / advice?

 

My rig is Triaxis (LD2G, gain 6.5, highs 5.5, mids 5, bass 5.5, drive 4.0, master 5.0, pres 4.0, DV 7.0), Mesa 2:50 w/EL34, Mesa Recto 412 cab (V30s). All tubes - JJ.

 

P.S. I tried lowering DV, to 3-4, it helped, but all the oomph and punch got lost in the way.

[Cirrus]

So it sounds like you've dialled in your rig to sound great off axis from the speakers when you're playing in a room, but not sound great when there's a mic inches from the speaker.

 

It's always a compromise, I dial my rig to sound good for the mic jammed in front of one of my speakers. I'd turn the gain and treble down for close miking, maybe turn the mids up but without hearing your tone I don't know how much.

[ermghoti II]

Keep in mind, you are always hearing your amp well off-axis, unless you play 30 feet away or have a full stack. Put you head right in front of a speaker, at 1-3 feet, and you'll immediately hear the difference. The recordings may well be closer to your amp's sound than you suspect. You didn't mention if you experimented with the position of the mic on the speaker as well as the angle and distance, but that can make a huge difference.

 

Fact is though, none of those mics are flat and accurate, they are all known for coloration, although this arguably least true of the 421. I adhere to the adage that if you can't get a decent (note: decent, not outstanding) track with a 57, it's not the mic's fault. That said, I use a cheap Chinese ribbon a whole lot, obviously not for live or live-in-the-room stuff due to the figure 8 pattern. I just point it straight at the middle of the cone about 10-12" back, maybe 6" above the speaker sometimes, and press Record.

[CME]

I know where you're coming from. I have learned so much about guitar tones from recording them. I used to do the same thing. Amp sounds great with the band but recorded sucked. So started listening to the mic signal and adjusting my tone from there. Essentially less gain/presence/highs and more mids. I however still leave the bass kinda where I like to hear it as I know I'm gonna high pass it at some point. And I like some low end when recording. Actually live I still keep it lower to stay out of the way of the bass player. Then I retaught myself what sounded good. Took that to a band mix. Normally have to turn up just a bit, as it doesn't cut quite as much, but overall it give me a bigger more 3d sound than what I used to dial in.

[Lee Knight]

Try running the cab out into a room and keeping the head next to you. Then adjust the head as you listen to your sound over the studio mains. I'm not saying this is the way to go, but I am saying, as Cirrus pointed out, the sound of a mic shoved into a grill is different from the sound of you standing a few feet way, off axis.

 

Of course, you could always record a few feet away, off axis. But, my gut tells me your genre would not be served. You're probably looking for an in your face modern sound. And that's a mic shoved in place. Placement is critical. But so are your amp settings for that environment. And they'll be different from live.

 

So play around a bit with adjusting your amp and only hearing the mic'ed signal through your monitors...

 

(And as someone pointed out above, try a ribbon. Even my lowly Fathead rocks in this app)

[Jesse G]

Try angling the mic towards the outside of the speaker cone so it's pointed directly at the paper about half-way between the center and the edge of the speaker. When I do that, I get a balanced tone that more closely resembles what I hear in the room, as far as the frequencies go.

 

I'd definitely try experimenting with mic positions that are pointing towards the outside.

[Inazone]

Have you tried recording with a different guitar? I tried at least a half-dozen different guitars, and ended up recording with two that I normally wouldn't have even considered, simply because the tones sounded better than any of my "favorites" in the mix.

 

Do you have access to a 6L6-based power amp? Although I record with EL34s myself (Carvin Tube 100), 6L6s definitely wouldn't be considered thin in my experience.

[LowYaw]

thanks a lot for your help guys.

my poweramp has switchable bias that allows to run either EL34 or 6L6. Gotta try that at some point.

 

as to guitars, i don't have many, and my two main axes are Prestige Ibanez guitars; i love them to death; and there's also a Gibson Les Paul occasionally.

 

i have a feeling that people telling me to re-tweak the settings are probably right; mics don't lie, and if room micing doesn't work - and room mic is actually more or less where my ears are - i will have to re-think my settings for recording.

 

i posted this question in triaxis mailing list, and the opinions of many-a-fine-players actually boils down to "kneel in front of the cab, a couple of feet away, and tweak"

 

[Carcinogen]

Yeah, can't stress the 'couple feet away' part enough. Nothing impares one's ability to know when you are hearing good guitar tone like partial deafness.

[LowYaw]

hehe