ok, I'm looking for some opinions, I want to make drum/bass tracks

[Jon Hiller]

Pretty much sums it up. I want to be able to simply lay down some drum and bass tracks to my studio rig in order to be able to make some tracks for my daughter and I to play along to. I can play the bass parts if need be, or I can even play them on keyboard.... the question I have is, though, would you buy a simple drum program for the computer or would you pick up something like the Akai XR20 or some other drum machine? I have played around with the XR20 and I find it to be loads of fun to play with, but I haven't actually programmed it, and frankly, I might find myself horsing around with it instead of charting out and programming it because of the fun factor. I ordered one in for a customer and when he came in, we sat around in my shop and played with it for a couple hours before he left, simply because we were having so much fun with the silly thing. Anyway, in your opinion, which would I be better off doing? And if you suggest a drum program, please tell me which one and why. Just an FYI, I have Sony Acid, and it works fine, but I really don't like sorting through a buttload of loops in order to find a dozen I would use and then string them together. So I am looking for something more simple than Acid... or at least, less time consuming. Thanks!

 

Edit, I guess I should explain a little of what I have, just so you know what I will be working with. I have a Mackie 24 track hard disc recorder, and I have a Soundcraft Spirit Studio 24 console, so doing bass tracks separately won't be a problem. Just looking for a simple, good sounding solution.

[Lee Knight]

Well, I was going to say Acid. If you're interested in just getting beats going on a machine, buy an old Alesis HR 16. Easy to program, probably very cheap on eBay and frankly, I always thought that thing sounded just great for bread and butter sounds.

 

There are newer, groovier ones obviously, but the old HR was a piece of cake to get rolling into something real. Real fast.

[Jon Hiller]

I dunno, maybe what I need to do is just shop around for some good but basic sets of loops for Acid. Probably half of what I have are loops for rap or r&b, which are cool, but not really what I am looking for, I just want some simple, straight ahead rock and pop stuff.

 

I have heard people talk up a program called EZ drums, but I don't know anything about it... maybe that would be a viable option too?

[Lee Knight]

 

I dunno, maybe what I need to do is just shop around for some good but basic sets of loops for Acid. Probably half of what I have are loops for rap or r&b, which are cool, but not really what I am looking for, I just want some simple, straight ahead rock and pop stuff. I have heard people talk up a program called EZ drums, but I don't know anything about it... maybe that would be a viable option too?

 

 

Then for Acid? This is probably what you want. I use it for a lot of stuff.

 

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/drumtools

[WRGKMC]

You can buy something like a Zoom 123 and have 300 different beats and bass parts. Blows away the alesis big time at half the cost new and can be found for about $50 used on Ebay. Its got a stereo out and an instrument level input so you can play along or record through the unit at the same time its playing beats and bass.

 

You can connect the unit to a sound card via the sound cards line input and record to a daw program of your choice. You can alos connect it to any tape recorde or hard disk recorder.

 

You can also build you own beats and play your own bass scales add your own drum fills. You can also tap on the pads to produce/record a beat or play a bass part.

 

On top of that the drums sound as good if not better than many computer based sample type programs, and the unit is fairly simple to use. It also has midi out so you can go that whole route as well.

 

I dont normally promote hardware over software for stuff, and i dont consider Zoom as being a great product because off so much low end junk they sell.

 

In this case though, The units a winner for sound quality and variety.

Drum machines have come a long, long way in the past few years and dont sound like a funkey metronome with noisy fake drum sounds any more.

 

As far as negatives, The unit does have maybe 50% rap and house type stock preset beats which I dont use a whole lot. I'm not into the car trunk rimble thing. The rest are all very good which leave 150 rock, pop, latin jazz and blues beats that are very decent and can also be modified if you want.

 

I have several other drum machines like Yamahas, Alesis, etc. but for songwriting and solo recording, this is the one that sounds best.

 

Heres some samples I used it on so you can hear. I only used the drums though and tapped the beats manually. Didnt use the bass. I'm a fluent bass player and dont need to use the built in bass capibility.

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Out%20On%20A%20Limb%20%5BMaster%5D.wav

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1682170/Rain%20%5BMaster%5D.wav

[Jon Hiller]

Thanks for that ^. I have compared the Zoom and the Akai XR20 side by side and I think the Akai actually sounds better than the Zoom, but you're right, the Zoom sounds really, really good. I just don't know if I want to go the hardware or the software route.

[Temple of Light]

Emu Command Stations, Zoom RT323, Boss DR202, Boss Jamstation, Etc, all have the sounds your after, but unless your just beat matching, you know, like loop recording,{recording one pattern after another all in the same tempo/style} it's still gonna be some work. Sequencing is more difficult to learn but completely accurate, playing the pads of a drum machine is alot easier and more fun but difficult to do for three or four minutes and still be accurate. If your'e just practicing the styles of music you play, those machines have plenty of loops and sounds by themselves, but if you wanna come up with anything specific or original I suggest playing the pads of whatever device your'e using until you have a cool sounding rhythym, recording that, and then looping that together with other homemade rhythyms until you get some amount of a song done. Either way, by sequencing or playing pads into the form of loops it takes practice and work. Playback the beat tracks you've created and then play the basslines in and record that the same way using the pads. For any real recording that you wanna get across to anyone else besides you and yours, take the time to learn how to sequence and create loops by learning that method. It's really the only way to accurately say anything with rhythym and the skill can be repeated over and over again...with an infinite number of possibilities.

 

Edit: In case you haven't noticed, I'm a hardware guy that favors hardware over software every time...Nothing like a real thing to lay your hands on to help you learn something. It's called lack of mass...

Unless of course you have unlimited time, patience and money to waste...in which case feel free: there's nothing that software can't do nowadays that was usually a hardware based device/application...

[WRGKMC]

Right on. I only use the things for writing. I have a mega set all miced up in the studio so if i get past the writing stage, i do the real drum thing. I'll have my drummer play the parts, or if they're simple enough I'll play them myself. Drums are alot of work weather you're playing live, tapping them in, setting up loops on a drum machine or sequencing them on a computer.

 

I have great programs that came with Sonar 8.5 Producer like Sessions Drummer and Beatpad for creating drum tracks. I can also use its groove options that will take an existing beat and resample the drums. I've also done the whole midi thing too. For just throwing down ideas its alot of work though. I'd totally loose my inspiration to play if I had to do all that crap just to lay down some tracks. I suppose If I wanted super high quality I could resample my drummers playing. He's a great drummer though and I have the set miced great so again, Its a matter of free time doing this stuff. If I didnt have a drummer and had to do it all myself, it would be a real different story though.

[dogbitey]

check out toontrack.com they host ezdrummer. the drums sampled sound great. there are beats to choose from and then you can add to them.

[Jon Hiller]

 

Then for Acid? This is probably what you want. I use it for a lot of stuff. http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/drumtools

 

 

 

OK, after thinking about it, and weighing the options... I decided to just stick with Acid, because at least I already know my way around it somewhat. I haven't used it a lot, but it seems silly to me to have software I paid for and then never use it. I ordered the loop pack you listed and the rock drums one, too. I think for what I want, I can probably work with those. I also decided to delete the "buttload of loops" that was freeware stuff a guy on TPB made and then put up to share. 99% of it was stuff I would never use because I don't do rap/R&B/techno stuff, so there was no point in bothering with those. So, the total will take up less space on my comp (I think) and will be more useful to me.

[Jon Hiller]

 

check out toontrack.com they host ezdrummer. the drums sampled sound great. there are beats to choose from and then you can add to them.

 

 

I agree, I just decided to stick with what I have, get some better loops, and work with it. Seems pointless to me to have software I bought and then not ever use it, so it made more sense to me to go this route instead. EZdrummer was on my list of considerations, though, and lots of people like it.