Members jerry_picker Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by ()()() ...again, semantics Do elaborate for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by dimmypage :confused: Not either-->or but if-->then. It is not a matter of either having tone or having talent, but of tone coming about primarily as a result of talent. That talent includes "in the fingers" issues, but also involves the very real talent of choice of appropriate equipment and the skill to derive the optimum contributions that the gear makes in the tone equation. Excellent guitar, cord, amplifier, and pedals do nothing if you don't know how to use them. Knowing how to use something to produce an artistically satisfying result is one working definition of talent. And, knowing how to put together ALL the elements in the chain of tone is a significant talent. If no talent, then no good tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Burgess Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 There's no "vs" for this. If there's talent there will be tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Originally posted by Burgess There's no "vs" for this. If there's talent there will be tone. Persactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members cratz2 Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 If it can be only one, it would have to be talent, of course. On the other hand, I don't think I want to spend a whole lot of time listening to an incredibly talented player that is playing the most horrible sounding rig either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ratae Corieltauvorum Posted October 4, 2006 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2006 Interestingly enough the word tone is one with a t in front of it:confused: So I guess some guitarist have great twon....am I getting this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members orourke Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Sometimes I didn't like Jimmy Pages tone on some Zep records, but every song oozes talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Welladjusted Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 It's probably easier to listen to a talented guitarist with questionable tone than someone with great tone, but no skills of application Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Kuhnfyoozed Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 Finding a good tone IS a talent. Talent +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zappa74 Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 {censored} tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members katintokyo Posted October 4, 2006 Members Share Posted October 4, 2006 I think I get the point of this thread. I am a little confused about why this thread exists. May I be the first to say that this is a really dumb thread. That being said, I recently saw a couple vids which really nail the question on the head. One is the guitarist from Slipknot (i think) and the other was Nuno Bettencourt. Both were complaining about their guitars and their "tone" throughout (albeit short) the videos, comments like "this guitar is a piece of {censored}" (own signature model - lol) and "this thing is dead... this is dead... what the hell... I'd like to apologize for the {censored} sound you're hearing... you can get your money back if you want, just speak louder" etc. and yet both of them (who are AMAZING players) sounded AWESOME!!!! I was watching in awe wondering just how the hell they were accomplishing what they were doing, and yet neither was even really paying attention to what they were doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by katintokyo I think I get the point of this thread. That being said, I recently saw a couple vids which really nail the question on the head. One is the guitarist from Slipknot (i think) and the other was Nuno Bettencourt. Both were complaining about their guitars and their "tone" throughout (albeit short) the videos, comments like "this guitar is a piece of {censored}" (own signature model - lol) and "this thing is dead... this is dead... what the hell... I'd like to apologize for the {censored} sound you're hearing... you can get your money back if you want, just speak louder" etc. and yet both of them (who are AMAZING players) sounded AWESOME!!!! I was watching in awe wondering just how the hell they were accomplishing what they were doing, and yet neither was even really paying attention to what they were doing. Then please tell us: what is the point of your post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members eroom Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Hardees Jalapeno Thick Burger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frets99 Posted October 5, 2006 Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by murch33 Steve Vai is still going to rip playing through your little Crate practice amp, and you're still going to sound like {censored} through his pro rig. Works for me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ()()() Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by jerry_picker Do elaborate for the rest of us. i initially responded with a question to this statement: Originally posted by fanuvbrak Talent can make tone. It don't go the other way... i never got an answer, but i'm curious i define tone as entirely separate from ability all the ability in the world cannot produce good tone from a bad guitar through a bad solid state amp...great composition, sure, but not good tone by another definition, one that includes sylistic components such as vibrato, feel, grit, what have you, i can see that talent could indeed impact 'tone' just pointing out that until everyone agrees on the definition of tone, then the debate is about much more than tone vs talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madgrinder7 Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 see my sig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Brewski Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 talent is overrated - that's why I don't have any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members PartyPooper Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 i say its 50-50 you gotta have em both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members machine gunner Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by The Bear I have to say talent. {censored} still smells like {censored}, no matter what you cover it with. The Bear Perfectly said Bear... :thu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members yoh_yoh Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 both... your talent must be nice to the ears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fanuvbrak Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by ()()() how so?talent can make music, but a bad amp is a bad amp regardless of the player I have heard accomplished guitarists playing through a crappy Epiphone "gig pack" amp and they sound terrific. Me? Not so much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Cougar Hunter Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 talented people buy better amps and dial them in better. they go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by ()()() i initially responded with a question to this statement: i never got an answer, but i'm curious i define tone as entirely separate from ability all the ability in the world cannot produce good tone from a bad guitar through a bad solid state amp...great composition, sure, but not good tone by another definition, one that includes sylistic components such as vibrato, feel, grit, what have you, i can see that talent could indeed impact 'tone' just pointing out that until everyone agrees on the definition of tone, then the debate is about much more than tone vs talent I guess if we get really open-ended on the definition, then a stereo with good tone only requires the talent to turn it on. The difference here may be that the guitar+amp doesn't have a tone until somebody plays the guitar and dials in the amp, begging the question of playing talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jimi Ray Halen Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Actually I think some people confuse "talent" with "skill level". Two different things. Talent is what you're born with. Skill level is a measure of determination to master an instrument. You can develop your playing ability. You can't do {censored} about your talent. Iow, a person can practice their ass off and get to be an excellent guitarist. But they will probably never get to the skill level of Jimi, or Eddie, etc. because they weren't born with the same amount of inate talent. No matter how much talent you're born with, you still have to practice your ass off to get really good. But true talent is almost an intangible. Then there's experience. An experienced player can get a good tone out of nearly anything. An extremely talented and experienced player will get great tone out of the same gear. And keep in mind that it's all subjective. Great tone or chops to one person's ears may sound just OK to someone else or like crap to another. I doubt that you could get everyone on this board to unanamously agree that anybody is "great" or has "great tone". I've seen just about every famous player both lauded and slagged on this forum at one time or another. What bugs me are the people I knew growing up or have met who had way more talent than me and threw it away. I've known some extremely talented people who pissed it away with drugs and/or alcohol. Talent is a gift. Everything else is just plain hard work. Tone is way more than gear. But generally, the more experience you have, the better your tone will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jerry_picker Posted October 5, 2006 Members Share Posted October 5, 2006 Originally posted by Jimi Ray Halen Actually I think some people confuse "talent" with "skill level". Two different things.Talent is what you're born with. Skill level is a measure of determination to master an instrument. Without talent. the highest level of skill that can be achieved is low. Therefore, the skill of obtaining a good tone begs the question of talent, since skill is built on a foundation of talent (with tuition and practice). Also, equating skill with the measure of determination to master is dicey. No amount of determination can overcome an essential lack of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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